[0.20] Ioncross Crew Support Plugin ([0.22] dev build)

[Benno]

Very good update. The Kethane mod has also been patched/updated to work with .20.2, and the owner has lifted the license restrictions temporarily. So I am free to post this trick to combine the IonCross and Kethane mods. Add the following text to either of the kethane converters if you want to create IonCross 02. Just rightclick on the converter. I'm working on a similar patch for the Ioncross converters, which would not be a violation of the Kethane license, but that will take a while and I want to actually play with these mods today.

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

TargetResource = Oxygen

ConversionEfficiency = .99

KethaneConsumption = 4

PowerConsumption = 8

HeatProduction = 300

}

I can't seem to get this working properly. The "Activate Oxygen Converter" switch appears alongside the others on the converter and I can click/activate it, but no matter how I set up the tanks it never converts any kethane to oxygen. Any ideas?

Edited July 14, 2013 by Benno
missed code

[Benno]

I've also tried:

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

SourceResource = Kethane

TargetResource = Oxygen

ConversionEfficiency = .99

SourceConsumption = 4

PowerConsumption = 8

HeatProduction = 300

}

But same result.

[SchroedingersHat]

One thought, for those of us who are using modular fuel tanks, LOX is just liquid oxygen, let some in and you can breathe if you run out inside the cabin. Maybe heat it up a bit first.

ION_SUPPORT_POD_GENERATOR
{
	generatorName = LOXHeater
	generatorGUIName = LOX Heater
		requiresAllInputs = True

	INPUT_RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		rate = 0.1
	}
	INPUT_RESOURCE
	{
		name = LiquidOxygen
		rateBase = 0
		ratePerCapacity = 0.0000171
	}
	OUTPUT_RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxygen
		rateBase = 0
		ratePerCapacity = -0.0003
	}	
}

Also does anyone know if there are any fuel cells floating around on spaceport or such?

I'm thinking of doing some configs for this along the lines of

H2 + LOX -> water

Water + Kerbals + Food + Oxygen -> Waste + CO2

Waste + Water reclaimer/disposal unit -> Less water than you started with

[jrandom]

I haven't gone through all 30 pages of comments so this may have been suggested before, but I would love to see:

A deep-space part, or set of deep-space parts that would allow for the generation of oxygen. As it stands, even with converters you'll eventually run out of oxygen (especially on lightweight craft). There could be a solar plant nursery that generates oxygen, but is heavy/expensive and has a glass window that needs to be in sunlight to work correctly. Next, a solar nursery that has windows all the way around (for more possible orientations), but is structurally weaker. After that, a nursery globe for nearly-360-degree coverage, but only one attachment point on the bottom (and even heavier what with all the glass). Finally, a fully-enclosed UV-light nursery that requires a heavy nuclear power plant (or a tremendous number of solar panels) to feed the grow lights.

This would make long-term planetary exploration more feasible but, with the added weight/power-requirements, won't completely nerf the system.

[SchroedingersHat]

Using this and ModularFuelTanks (both need to be installed, it installs into the modularfueltanks folder and the ioncross folder, the only file it overwrites is IonCrossCrewSupport.cfg), I've made the logistics stuff a bit more complicated. There's food, a heater so you can breathe from your liquid oxygen tanks (from the advanced mode of modularfueltanks) in each command pod, water, waste recycling and hydrogen fuel cells (using the ioncross model and stock rtg model for now). Anyone like the idea/have any thoughts and feedback?

I based everything as well as I could on reality and a rough estimation of solar panel size and insolation equivalent to earth's. Batteries needed to be upgraded significantly (they now have the energy density by mass of lead acid batteries, although I think they're somewhat denser) which means ion drives would need tweaking to make sense.

The ioncross tanks are also now configurable using the modular fuel tanks interface (go to the action group configuration and click on the tank), I added a new tank type of logistics (which I haven't tweaked and balanced yet).

http://www./?cp1c11l8aodh2ya

The basic idea is that short term missions and small bases/stations work much the same (whack a tank and maybe some recyclers if you're gone for a few months on it) but long term mining bases will be more self-sufficient with kethane (I might also look into making a simple mod for gathering atmosphere and ocean and doing stuff with it), although they'll still require (much less frequent) food delivery missions.

[intidragon]

Mr. yongedevil sir. . . I hope this isn't much of a bother. . . but would you be interested in making an inflatable habitation segment that is part of your mod pack? I feel it would be a great addition to your parts too since it'll have it's own, custom-made habitation module.

[Tobyz28]

This:

H2 + LOX -> water

Water + Kerbals + Food + Oxygen -> Waste + CO2

Waste + Water reclaimer/disposal unit -> Less water than you started with (

and This:

Mr. yongedevil sir. . . I hope this isn't much of a bother. . . but would you be interested in making an inflatable habitation segment that is part of your mod pack? I feel it would be a great addition to your parts too since it'll have it's own, custom-made habitation module.

To handle Waste + Water -> O2

Would make this one epic mod! Please consider adding some parts relating to this Great work so far!

[intidragon]

Sir youngedevil. . . I forgot to mention that the ModuleManager for you crew support doesn't read the Utilities module and Utilities module adaptor for the Fustek parts.

[Designer225]

Just asking, but if there is no CO2, would the Kerbals be killed? Because when I looked at the IonCrossLifeSupport.cfg, I found this line in the CO2 group:

boolCauseDeath = True

I asked because I'm writing a configuration for Cepheus's CSS.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Designer225

[Starwaster]

Just asking, but if there is no CO2, would the Kerbals be killed? Because when I looked at the IonCrossLifeSupport.cfg, I found this line in the CO2 group:

boolCauseDeath = True

I asked because I'm writing a configuration for Cepheus's CSS.

I think that only happens when the mod tries (and is unable) to add or subtract the given resource. In the case of CO2, if it tries to add CO2 and the module is already fully saturated AND boolCauseDeath = true then it starts trying to kill Kerbals.

[Starwaster]

O2 loss and CO2 generation are happening at twice the rate they're supposed to. The reason for this is that each craft (craft files and quicksave files) has TWO instances of IonModuleCrewSupport modules.

I tried to compensate locally by halving ratePerKerbal in IoncrossCrewSupport.cfg (for both O2 and CO2). This did not work! I tried reducing the value to something absurdly low and verified that the new values were present in the craft files and in the save files. However, each Kerbal still uses up a full two units per day...

Ignore the above, I see lots of duplicate modules but none of them seem to hurt anything... and the new numbers I was plugging in were just wrong. It does seem odd that the compartments are processing oxygen/CO2 at twice the expected rate but maybe it was supposed to be that high and it was just documentation elsewhere that was wrong? (ie text indicating that 24 per day were deducted)

Edit: You know what? I don't think rate values in KSP are for 1 second. I think they're for 0.5 seconds... yes? no? maybe?

Also:

The way scrubbers work in this mod isn't realistic, real life scrubbers can completely clear CO2 to safe levels in the environment without resorting to something as advanced as recyclers.

Scrubbers should be changed so that it requires an additional resource: filter cartridges. As long as the cartridges are present, the scrubbers can remove all the CO2 from the compartment. If not, CO2 builds up as normal. This would allow for the delivery of replacement filters. (limiting factor on quantities would be volume not mass) Once the filters are replaced, CO2 can be removed and the compartment made safe again. That would be in line with the way spacecraft worked from the Apollo era, with more advanced techniques such as algae CO2 -> O2 recycling or even regenerative filters such as have been developed more recently.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Starwaster

[rottielover]

I think I'm doing something wrong installing this mod. I have it all in the GameData\IronCrossCrewSupport folder. The various parts all show up and I can add them, I can right click my pods and stuff and see how much oxy etc. but the kerbals never seem to consume anything or produce any waste. Is that expected behavior? What am I doing wrong?

[yongedevil]

I've been busy for the last few weeks so I apologies that I haven't replied in some time.

Figured I would bring my recent problem with the mod over here, Just so the developer has a heads up.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/40028-Unexpected-Lag-During-Launch

Honestly, don't even know why the launch clamps are even having resources assigned to it. Could someone(with the latest release) test and see if they are getting the same error? Just want to confirm the fix I came up with, and make sure I don't have a seperate problem that's causing it.

Thank you for finding that error.

I would like to add this plugin to some part that i downloaded that didnt get the install of crew support. I tried making a simple cfg file like the others in the list but for some reason idk the game wont add life support to the part.

If you're adding the life support via ModuleManager (@PART[PartName] syntax) then it may be that there is a space in the part's name. ModuleManager can't handle spaces in the name. As an alternative you can edit the part.cfg file and add the module that way. All you need is the following.

MODULE
{
	name = IonModuleCrewSupport
}

If it works you should see “Ioncross Crew Support Systems Installed†in the part info in the VAB. You may wish to add some Oxygen and CarbonDioxide RESOURCE entries to the part.cfg as well.

I think I'm doing something wrong installing this mod. I have it all in the GameData\IronCrossCrewSupport folder. The various parts all show up and I can add them, I can right click my pods and stuff and see how much oxy etc. but the kerbals never seem to consume anything or produce any waste. Is that expected behavior? What am I doing wrong?

No that is not expected. If you weren't seeing any Oxygen rate or CarbonDiodoxide rate when right clicking I'd assume the mod wasn't working, but If you are seeing values there then the mod should be working since it sends those values to the display module immediately after requesting them from the craft.

One possibility is the launch-clamps are still attached, they supply a ship with O2 so you won't see any drop while they're still attached. You should see CO2 build up though as I only just fixed an error that was preventing the clamps from removing CO2 in the last two hours.

It might also be you're not giving it enough time. At 1 O2/h per kerbal it will take 20 minutes before there's a drop of 1 unit of 02 in a three kerbal ship, and an hour for a one kerbal ship.

Sir youngedevil. . . I forgot to mention that the ModuleManager for you crew support doesn't read the Utilities module and Utilities module adaptor for the Fustek parts.

Ah it looks like there's been a fairly major update to the Fustek Station Parts Expansion mod. I'll have to update the ModuleManager file for it.

ok just wondering what the conversion rate was for the o2 scrubbers. how many kerbals can the big one support with out surplus CO2 (at standard power, you know just turning them on not increasing flow)? what about the small ones? I was just curious and I thought that would be a good simple stat on them. I am planing on a deep space mission and I wanted to know before I launched because it would suck to run out of oxygen. (and yes I know about the less than 100% efficiency, I built a collector part that gathers CO2 from space, a bit cheaty but not too cheaty).

Thank You

The small recycler (LS-19A Life Support Electric Algae) consumes CO2 at the rate of 4 Kerbals and produces O2 at the rate of 2 Kerbals. The large recycler (LS-32C Life Support Integrated Waste Recycler) consumes CO2 at the rate of 16 and 2/3 Kerbals and produces O2 at the rate of 10 Kerbals. If you have enough free CO2, your limiting factor is the O2 conversion rate which will be 2 and 10 Kerbals respectively. If your free CO2 is the limiting factor you'll be able to support 1 Kerbal for every 2 CO2/h with the small recycler and 1 for every 1.67 CO2/h with the large recycler.

Note though that others have reported errors in the consumption rates that I have yet to look into so these values may not be the same in game.

So, I'm working on a stupid part which I deemed useful for Space Stations. It's basically a device which takes lots of energy and makes some CO2.

I'm not totally sure how to go about making this thing, though. I have a feeling I'd need to make it a ION_SUPPORT_POD_GENERATOR type part, but I'm still very new at this game. And this mod, really, but still, I'm figuring it out as I go.

First since you're making a part you can add the module to the part.cfg directly and you don't have to worry about anything in IoncrossCrewSupport.cfg. The entries in IoncrossCrewSupport.cfg are for adding a default part, like the CO2 scrubber, to all pods.

In the part.cfg file you'll want to create a new IonModuleGenerator MODULE entry. Make sure it is within the PART entry (between the outter { } at the top and bottom of the file). I'd suggest looking at the part.cfg files for the recycler parts to see how they're setup. What you're going to want is something that basically looks like this,

MODULE
{
	name = IonModuleGenerator
	generatorName = FreeCO2Gen
	generatorGUIName = CO2 Generator
	requiresAllInputs = True

	INPUT_RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		rate = 1.0
	}
	OUTPUT_RESOURCE
	{
		name = CarbonDioxide
		rate = 1.0
	}
}

You can put whatever you want in generatorName (it isn't used by anything right now), and generatorGUIName (this is what the generator is shows as when you right click on a part). The rate values are whatever rates you want the inputs to be used up and the outputs to be generated at.

I haven't gone through all 30 pages of comments so this may have been suggested before, but I would love to see:

A deep-space part, or set of deep-space parts that would allow for the generation of oxygen. As it stands, even with converters you'll eventually run out of oxygen (especially on lightweight craft). There could be a solar plant nursery that generates oxygen, but is heavy/expensive and has a glass window that needs to be in sunlight to work correctly. Next, a solar nursery that has windows all the way around (for more possible orientations), but is structurally weaker. After that, a nursery globe for nearly-360-degree coverage, but only one attachment point on the bottom (and even heavier what with all the glass). Finally, a fully-enclosed UV-light nursery that requires a heavy nuclear power plant (or a tremendous number of solar panels) to feed the grow lights.

This would make long-term planetary exploration more feasible but, with the added weight/power-requirements, won't completely nerf the system.

Mr. yongedevil sir. . . I hope this isn't much of a bother. . . but would you be interested in making an inflatable habitation segment that is part of your mod pack? I feel it would be a great addition to your parts too since it'll have it's own, custom-made habitation module.

I would like to see parts like those too. However, I am not a modeller and I would rather spend my time making the mod more stable and configurable to allow for those who do have an inclination towards molding to create such parts and have them work.

Am I just derping here, or is the CO2 recycler not working at high time acceleration? I was working on a Moho return mission. I calculated that the mission would take me about 70 days. I send out 3 kerbals. I came to the conclusion I'd need:

70*24*3= 5040 units of O2. The large recycler is 66% efficient, so I'd only need 1/3th of that amount. So I need to lift off with 1680 units of O2 on board. So I just used the innate recycling tank (filled it to the brim with a detachable air intake before launch). However, when I actually flew the mission I was out of O2 before I even reached Moho. Am I just messing up something stupid here or is it some inaccuracy in O2 consumption? I didn't have any scrubbers running and the recycler was activated.

Other mods I'm running are:

Kethane

FAR

RemoteTech

DeadlyReentry

Kerbal Engineer.

O2 loss and CO2 generation are happening at twice the rate they're supposed to. The reason for this is that each craft (craft files and quicksave files) has TWO instances of IonModuleCrewSupport modules.

I tried to compensate locally by halving ratePerKerbal in IoncrossCrewSupport.cfg (for both O2 and CO2). This did not work! I tried reducing the value to something absurdly low and verified that the new values were present in the craft files and in the save files. However, each Kerbal still uses up a full two units per day...

Ignore the above, I see lots of duplicate modules but none of them seem to hurt anything... and the new numbers I was plugging in were just wrong. It does seem odd that the compartments are processing oxygen/CO2 at twice the expected rate but maybe it was supposed to be that high and it was just documentation elsewhere that was wrong? (ie text indicating that 24 per day were deducted)

Edit: You know what? I don't think rate values in KSP are for 1 second. I think they're for 0.5 seconds... yes? no? maybe?

Also:

The way scrubbers work in this mod isn't realistic, real life scrubbers can completely clear CO2 to safe levels in the environment without resorting to something as advanced as recyclers.

Scrubbers should be changed so that it requires an additional resource: filter cartridges. As long as the cartridges are present, the scrubbers can remove all the CO2 from the compartment. If not, CO2 builds up as normal. This would allow for the delivery of replacement filters. (limiting factor on quantities would be volume not mass) Once the filters are replaced, CO2 can be removed and the compartment made safe again. That would be in line with the way spacecraft worked from the Apollo era, with more advanced techniques such as algae CO2 -> O2 recycling or even regenerative filters such as have been developed more recently.

I'll have to look at the consumption rates. I'd expect some rounding errors over long duration missions but nothing that major so something is clearly going wrong if O2 is being consumed at twice the intended rate (the intended rate still being 1 per hour)

As for the scrubbers I am aware they're not really realistic. I want to keep the base mod simple so I don't intend to add a new resource to it just for the scrubbers. It is definitely something I'm planing to keep in mind if I ever get around to making an advanced version though.

[HavinAlmassi]

I see this mod was updated last night. Is it compatible with .21 now?

[Ralathon]

I see this mod was updated last night. Is it compatible with .21 now?

Tested it right now. It seems to work. Parts are showing up in the VAB/SPH, oxygen is consumed and CO2 is produced. Scrubbers are also confirmed to work.

Jeb did die eventually for me, but he survived for nearly a week without oxygen and electricity. So there might be some bugs there. But all in all it seems functional. Didn't test the recyclers or resource consumption with more than 1 kerbal yet though. I also didn't test if Jeb showed up as "lost" in the new astronaut complex.

[Starwaster]

Tested it right now. It seems to work. Parts are showing up in the VAB/SPH, oxygen is consumed and CO2 is produced. Scrubbers are also confirmed to work.

Jeb did die eventually for me, but he survived for nearly a week without oxygen and electricity. So there might be some bugs there. But all in all it seems functional. Didn't test the recyclers or resource consumption with more than 1 kerbal yet though. I also didn't test if Jeb showed up as "lost" in the new astronaut complex.

How many times did you test? Given that there's a random chance of death when O2 is depleted, it's technically possible even if statistically unlikely that he could survive a week. Also, did you have his ship actually active the whole week? (inactive ships aren't checked currently)

[intidragon]

Thanks for your replies sir yongedevil. . . whatever happens I still love this plugin. \m/

[Ralathon]

How many times did you test? Given that there's a random chance of death when O2 is depleted, it's technically possible even if statistically unlikely that he could survive a week. Also, did you have his ship actually active the whole week? (inactive ships aren't checked currently)

Just once since I was pressed for time. It was probably just a statistical fluke. What I did was accelerate time until I ran out of O2. At that point it dropped me out of warp and the capsule displayed O2 warnings. Since I wanted to see if he'd actually die I just started the acceleration back up. After about 1 day it dropped me out of warp again, giving the same warnings. This repeated for about a week before the guy kicked the bucket.

Maybe that chance should be increased to 100%. I mean, when I run out of oxygen in real life I'm not going to have a x% chance to survive for a day, I'd be dead every time.

[Starwaster]

Just once since I was pressed for time. It was probably just a statistical fluke. What I did was accelerate time until I ran out of O2. At that point it dropped me out of warp and the capsule displayed O2 warnings. Since I wanted to see if he'd actually die I just started the acceleration back up. After about 1 day it dropped me out of warp again, giving the same warnings. This repeated for about a week before the guy kicked the bucket.

Maybe that chance should be increased to 100%. I mean, when I run out of oxygen in real life I'm not going to have a x% chance to survive for a day, I'd be dead every time.

I'm sure you would be dead every time. However, if you have TWO different people, they're not likely to die at the same time like clockwork.

IMO, it's probably a time acceleration bug. Meaning that the hourly check that's supposed to happen, didn't. I don't think time warp is supposed to prevent that sort of thing but I think sometimes it does. Either that, or like I/you said, statistical fluke

[corumanime]

Yongedevil. I just want to say THANKS for making this and especially for making it work with so many other mods and letting us configure it.

(personally I think being able to land on the Mun before finding the air is a bit stale is too easy, so I increased the oxygen/CO2 rate of kerbals by x100 and also speeded up the recyclers by x100 but made them use 100x as much power too - now its something you actually have to consider)

This plugin is one of the very most important ones, it should be included in the Stock game, I hope you realise for so many people this one Mod will turn KSP from a silly game to an actual challenging Sim, and add Roleplay and Realism so theres a reason to build larger space stations etc and send resupply missions. IDK why the downloads aren't higher I guess people want big rockets and guns but this is more useful for the game longterm, to me its as important as MechJeb, seriously, please don't ever give up on it, please keep integrating it with relevant mods. This really gave KSP a new lease of life for me after I did all the "huge rocket" stuff.

Dude. You rock. And IonCross Crew Support plugin rocks! THANKS!!! <3

Corum.

p.s. on Oxygen warnings. Yes if possible give more warnings, yes check all ships so neglected missions die. And don't have 10% per hour. Do like me. Change it to 10% per 5 MINUTES so surviving an hour is a real challenge... can I rush re-entry and make a dangerous quick landing and pop the hatch before I snuff it? An hour takes you halfway to the Mun.

Edited July 26, 2013 by corumanime

[Zander]

I am having a problem with the latest update to .21. Kerbals are being killed even though there is full oxygen and no co2. They just seem to randomly die and disapear from the craft some short time after launching.

[Starwaster]

Yongedevil. I just want to say THANKS for making this and especially for making it work with so many other mods and letting us configure it.

(personally I think being able to land on the Mun before finding the air is a bit stale is too easy, so I increased the oxygen/CO2 rate of kerbals by x100 and also speeded up the recyclers by x100 but made them use 100x as much power too - now its something you actually have to consider)

Based on what exactly? Why not use the Apollo data? Or research how it's handled on modern space flights? Research the International Space Station. 100x???? That's pretty arbitrary and unrealistic. I mean, if you wanted to make the oxygen resource more massive I could understand that; unless my math is wrong the amount of oxygen consumed in kilograms is pretty low (nearly 100 times less dense actually...).

But leave the rate of consumption alone, let that be equal to the amount of oxygen being used by one Kerbal in an hour, the way it's calibrated now. Also, recyclers shouldn't take so much energy. The power is mostly just for fans to move the air around.

[ymir9]

I love this simple mod, but since .21 it seems like my Kerbals take forever to die; over a Kerbin week on average. Also crew aren't counted as "killed" and so aren't considered "lost".

[ShadyAct]

Could you make a power hungry part that reduces oxygen consumption by cryogenically freezing Kerbals?

[jrandom]

Could you make a power hungry part that reduces oxygen consumption by cryogenically freezing Kerbals?

This is brilliant. I wish I had the right modelling skills -- I'd volunteer. As it stands, I have Lightwave and I pretty much suck with it. Although if anyone knows how to get a proper Kerbal-compatible .dae file out of it I'd be willing to give it a shot.