The Single-stage Altitude Challenge

[tstehler1]

Sure, gravity turns are okay. But I'm considering changing the rules.... maybe once your engines are on, you can't drop below 30% thrust or something. What do you guys think?

[Francesco]

Sure, gravity turns are okay. But I'm considering changing the rules.... maybe once your engines are on, you can't drop below 30% thrust or something. What do you guys think?

why would you put such a rule?

gravity turns are the bread and butter of rocket flying.

[SpaceOddity]

Sure, gravity turns are okay. But I'm considering changing the rules.... maybe once your engines are on, you can't drop below 30% thrust or something. What do you guys think?

You could split the challenge in two: engineering and piloting.

Engineering: build a craft to be flown by Mechjeb at set ascent curve (ie 2,50,33%) with current limits and additional weights as it is too easy to escape Kerbin sOI.

Piloting: make a quirky unbalanced SSTO, upload the .craft file and let the best pilot win (or survive).

Please wait for my entry before you change the rules :-).

Edited May 3, 2013 by SpaceOddity

[lump]

here's a link to my entry, i will add more pics if you want, it doesn't have a parachute or decoupler but it is not coming back, i did do the burn in one as i was in position, if you want i will add a parachute and decoupler but i only just finished making it

It only has 2880 fuel which must be some kind of record, you saw it here today folks.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26634-Possibly-the-smallest-Rocket-only-SSTO-to-escape-Kerbol-%28the-sun%29-to-date

Edit: how do i calculate my score, according to the rules it's technically infinite

Edited May 3, 2013 by lump

[lump]

lump's been making sun-escaping SSTO's. I don't think he usually puts decouplers or parachutes on them, and I'm not sure if the smallest ones are less than 40 parts...

Just saw your post, they used to be upwards of 120 parts but my new smallest is, as i said ,under 20 parts, here are some pictures although you will have to understand that this thing has such a tight fuel buget unless you don't want ASAS this thing is not getting a parachute

it actually cam about late at night while adapting my now second best SSTO for this challenge (i had it under 40 parts with a parachute), I first had the LV-N mounted upside down, turning the whole ship around during the gravity turn, and then thought how i could add extra fuel if it was fireing at the same time as the areospike, so i clipped it in there and had a ship with 1440 fuel that could escape kerbins SOI and probably make it to Duna or Eve, the next step was to find a way to get it in space with even more fuel, which is why i have those landing engines on their, they are fast, light and give me enough fuel to escape kerbol.

link to thread for this new SSTO:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26634-Possibly-the-smallest-Rocket-only-SSTO-to-escape-Kerbol-%28the-sun%29-to-date

Edit: tavart, i just read your post, if i take away the radial tanks i think i could take this to the mun and back with only 1440 fuel(1/2 an orange tank)

Edited May 3, 2013 by lump

[SpaceOddity]

So this is my entry. During optimization TV2 in a typically Krussian fashion morphed into TV5. With 35 parts and 151 tons on launchpad and 35.9T dry mass, TV5 is unlike its predecessor unable to escape Kerbol (but at the same time it doesn't need 16 hours of piloting). Can anyone go any heavier?

In the VAB with Mechjeb attached.

On the launchpad:

Final Kerbolar orbit, lots of deltaV was wasted on changing inclination. Responsible technician has been shot and his family sent to GULAG.

Mandatory (as per order of our Beloved Leader) backlit shot:

Another picture in orbit:

[Nao]

Wondering about the lowest part count to sun escape SSTO i came up with this:

14 parts 687m/s off sun escape SSTO

Also while staging is disallowed, undocking isn't So that's a one loophole found (asparagus undocking... sounds fun )

edit: added third picture showing partcount (+mechjeb) and lack of "red launch things"

Edited May 4, 2013 by Nao

[Francesco]

14 parts 687m/s off sun escape SSTO

Also while staging is disallowed, undocking isn't So that's a one loophole found (asparagus undocking... sounds fun )

edit: added third picture showing partcount (+mechjeb) and lack of "red launch things"

ugh... less than 7 km/s to Sun escape? which flight profile did you use?

also, what did you undock from the ship?

[Nao]

ugh... less than 7 km/s to Sun escape? which flight profile did you use?

also, what did you undock from the ship?

Hmm i'm not sure if i actually was 700m/s from sun escape, since the maneuver node bugs out. But i figured out that the point where Ap disappears from node (and bugs) would be Kerbol escape.

The launch profile was a standard ascent to orbit and then burn into interplanetary space.

I didn't decouple/undock anything (there is a launch picture too). But I don't think you need 7km for Kerbol escape thou - where you did get that number?

edit: checked with nodes on one of my orbiting crafts, from 100km kerbin orbit to kerbol escape is only 2733m/s Dv, so 7km Dv is just about right (i somehow thought you meant 7km from orbit)

Edited May 4, 2013 by Nao

[Francesco]

Hmm i'm not sure if i actually was 700m/s from sun escape, since the maneuver node bugs out. But i figured out that the point where Ap disappears from node (and bugs) would be Kerbol escape.

The launch profile was a standard ascent to orbit and then burn into interplanetary space.

I didn't decouple/undock anything (there is a launch picture too). But I don't think you need 7km for Kerbol escape thou - where you did get that number?

ok so I didn't get the undocking vs staging joke

about the 7 km/s... well, you said it yourself, didn't you?

mechjeb shows 6937 m/s of delta-v for your ship, so...

I was tinkering with Sun escape these days, and I always ended up with a ~4.4 (LKO) + 2.8 = 7.2 km/s budget.

[Nao]

Hehe i learned english mostly by browsing gaming forums and i still do a lot of pre-posting editing on what i write. Sometimes i end up deleting something important without noticing.

Here i deleted the part about me not using the undocking to stage "this time" as it didn't sound quite right. Sorry for confusion

[lump]

To be honest i don't think you can get much smaller than my SSTO without the piloting skills of a saint, my one is hard enough and around has around 20 parts and weighs around 20 tonnes as well (but last time i said i don't think they can get much smaller i halved my best ones size )

[tavert]

If you're going by part count which Nao appears to be, you can easily get some big but very simple crafts...

[lump]

yeah the smallest possible is 3 parts a rocket a fuel tank and a capsule, which is unbeatable unless you have some gigantic solid rocket mod

[Nao]

To be honest i don't think you can get much smaller than my SSTO without the piloting skills of a saint, my one is hard enough and around has around 20 parts and weighs around 20 tonnes as well (but last time i said i don't think they can get much smaller i halved my best ones size )

Wait wait your craft weight's 20t ? Are you underfueling it? Since the center stack (with nerva and pod) weights 21+ tons. Counting it whole its above 40t and TWR of 0.65 :/ Something doesn't adds up. I call shenanigans !

Edit: also would it count if i used "explosive" staging? (Ie: placing a solid booster below an engine and throttling just so it explodes right before it burns out)

[lump]

oh o.k., i was doing it from memory, i think i must have remembered the dry masses or something, thanks for actually taking the time to correct my brain deadness. Still though, pretty good in weight and part terms to be able to escape kerbol.

[Nao]

Oh ok, i've also read in your thread that you had aerospike hidden somewhere there so TWR problem is solved too i guess

I like your engine stacking method. It would really help in this:

My smallest "no jets and wings" SSTO (14t)

That's what you can call small!

[lump]

i remember your prototype with two solid rockets, i was amazed at how awesome it was ,nice to see it back again.

[Nao]

Yep it works, totally useless (with like 2L of fuel barely above 70x70km), but fun to fly

I'm not shure how did you put the aerospikes on your ssto, but thinking you stacked one on top of LV-N gave me an idea:

15,1t on launch.

Looks like one multinozzle, multifuel type engine. Rocket science not that hard after all.

Welp i should probably stay on topic... sry

[lump]

Nao, as you can see on my ship at the bottom i used two smaller tanks rather than one big one, the LV-N is placed inbetween them and the areospike is placed normally, BTW that solid rocket LV-N cross breed is badass.

[Holo]

If you escape Kerbin's SOI, you could be judged by your solar apopapsis, and if you escape Kerbol, you could be judged by your speed when you cross Jool's orbit.

[tavert]

I'd go for a specific altimeter number rather than crossing an ellipse, but anyway. And you could use gravity assists, but if it's a pure rocket design challenge (and piloting accuracy in escaping Kerbin, which I didn't do too well at) you'd probably want to judge before hitting Duna to rule out that possibility.

Nao, as funny as your asymmetric rockets were, I think we've got a new winner in mixed-engine design. Finicky to put together, but elegant in its own silly way. Nothing gets damaged by exhaust in the F3 window?

[lump]

I do love Nao's design, it's just so unique. when i build my rockets i try to go for practicality but Nao, oh no he/she just does what they want with his/her shifting center of mass!

this is what i love about ksp.

[Nao]

I'd go for a specific altimeter number rather than crossing an ellipse, but anyway. And you could use gravity assists, but if it's a pure rocket design challenge (and piloting accuracy in escaping Kerbin, which I didn't do too well at) you'd probably want to judge before hitting Duna to rule out that possibility.

Nao, as funny as your asymmetric rockets were, I think we've got a new winner in mixed-engine design. Finicky to put together, but elegant in its own silly way. Nothing gets damaged by exhaust in the F3 window?

It seems that thrust collision mesh for engines is a cylinder with top closed, so any engine put roughly on the same spot will not get any thrust damage. For the booster it is kind off intuitive but LV-1 also works like that. For example you can stack LV909 and LV-1 and they will both work fine (even with LV909 nozzle well inside LV-1's reactor part), or even you can add an small tank with LV909 on the bottom to the LV-N (bringing the nozzles more closely) and it will still work .

I do love Nao's design, it's just so unique. when i build my rockets i try to go for practicality but Nao, oh no he/she just does what they want with his/her shifting center of mass!

this is what i love about ksp.

He loves to challenge anything thats common sense or standard and usually does most things in reverse.

And he's very happy when people like or learn something form his work .

And more OT, 35parts+KER 400t on launch another "almost" SSTKerbolEscape

I was not sure if right clicking and changing anything is allowed so i just burned with what i got. End up with sun Ap of 123Gm. With fuel management escape orbit would be possible, but that's for another flight.

I didn't think Escaping Kerbol without staging would be so hard as just adding "moar boosters" doesn't cut it. Makes me more appreciative of lump's craft, great work!

[SunJumper]

If you escape Kerbin's SOI, you could be judged by your solar apopapsis, and if you escape Kerbol, you could be judged by your speed when you cross Jool's orbit.

Or you can be judged by your velocity at infinity, which is trivial to create...