Little thought about hiring modders in the dev team

[CoriW]

Does anybody remember reading HarvesteR's blog post called "A rant about development asymptotes"?

Well, in that blog post HarvesteR spoke about how when a game first starts and is in it's earlier versions, not much effort has to be put into making the game in order to get fairly large features added to the game, but as you get further into development the same amount of effort as earlier now only gets a smaller feature added to the game.

So from my point of view, it looks like Squad hiring these modders is their way to compensate for this issue because once it gets to that point where they're using 100% of their effort and it's only getting smaller features into the game, there's a problem. The problem is that because they're using 100% of their combined effort there is no possible way to increase their effort in order to get a bigger feature into the game.

So the solution is... Hire another person. Say the dev team has 4 people on it (Just using this number as an example for easy math), that means that with 100% effort output each person accounts for 25% of that effort, so if they hire a 5th person, that means that each person now only accounts for 20% of the total effort output. As a result of this, what was previously 100% effort output being used to add features, it is now only 80%, this means that they have a whole additional 20% that they can add to their current output of effort for adding larger features to the game.

I really hope that makes sense, I'm honestly not sure if it does or not. xD

[Kuldan]

I'm actually wondering that they haven't gotten R4mon on the team yet (of Mechjeb fame..)

[JonoRig]

Maybe he doesn't want to work for them? Plus they said they don't want an actual autopilot system in game (although the kerbal actions to me sound suspiciously like autopilot under a different name. But hey ho)

[Dictator Dan]

I think the Kerbal actions are more you have to set the maneuver nodes, or a set action a certain point, as opposed to 'I want to dock with that' or 'land me RIGHT THERE!'

[Scoundrel]

I somehow picture Squad dropping Kerbalized facehuggers from orbit onto the modders they like and turning them into... devs. I imagine when that happens there's lots of goo, dramatic lighting, and cheesy nachos with salsa. Mmm nachos.

[JonoRig]

I somehow picture Squad dropping Kerbalized facehuggers from orbit onto the modders they like and turning them into... devs. I imagine when that happens there's lots of goo, dramatic lighting, and cheesy nachos with salsa. Mmm nachos.

Can I be invited to the party? Nachos sound good

[Trux]

Shouldn't it serve as an inspiration for other Mod makers or people who want to get involved, to realize that talent can be rewarded and great content can be made with it?

I don't see this harming the Modding community at all. We are seeing Squad grow from a small team to a (hopefully ) successful developer and that is a good thing in my opinion.

I also don't see the parts being directly copy pasted as stock, but the quality of the Mod should represent what could be done with, not only the help of the team but time and attention to create an awesome Space plane overhaul

[Queue]

On that note, looking at your post, I'm tempted to make a similarly catty remark about how English grammar isn't exactly your forte.

ummm i think Netris is from Belgium... so i would assume English may be a second or third language. Seeing is in the north Dutch is spoken heavily i Brussels they speak french and dutch in the south they speak french. Though alot of Belgium speaks English as well it certainly is not there first language. Just a thought.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Queue

[rkman]

Yes we have 3 or 4 new parts once in a while, a new little functionnality

You are greatly downplaying Squad's achievements wrt KSP. Achievements that are in no small part thanks to modders hired by Squad.

[katateochi]

tbh I think the really good modders joining the core team is a good thing (mostly). I'd hope that they will still have time/inclination to keep their personal projects going, only now they are closer to the core and can really see how it works which will help with their 'side' projects. It also really shows that Squad regards mods as part of the game and wants to roll the good ones into it.

Does anybody remember reading HarvesteR's blog post called "A rant about development asymptotes"?

Well, in that blog post HarvesteR spoke about how when a game first starts and is in it's earlier versions, not much effort has to be put into making the game in order to get fairly large features added to the game, but as you get further into development the same amount of effort as earlier now only gets a smaller feature added to the game.

So from my point of view, it looks like Squad hiring these modders is their way to compensate for this issue because once it gets to that point where they're using 100% of their effort and it's only getting smaller features into the game, there's a problem. The problem is that because they're using 100% of their combined effort there is no possible way to increase their effort in order to get a bigger feature into the game.

So the solution is... Hire another person. Say the dev team has 4 people on it (Just using this number as an example for easy math), that means that with 100% effort output each person accounts for 25% of that effort, so if they hire a 5th person, that means that each person now only accounts for 20% of the total effort output. As a result of this, what was previously 100% effort output being used to add features, it is now only 80%, this means that they have a whole additional 20% that they can add to their current output of effort for adding larger features to the game.

I really hope that makes sense, I'm honestly not sure if it does or not. xD

There is a book which I'd recommend for any developer (or anyone interested in running a large project). It's called "The Mythical Man-Month" by Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Basically it says what Harv was saying in that blog, that as a projects grows the effort required to move it the same distance is increased. From a good working idea that to many might seem complete (a working alpha) it generally takes about 9 times more effort to take that to a finished product, but the apparent change to outsiders is less and less.

It also (hence its title) talks about the myth of adding more people to a team to get the job done faster. When you add another person to a team you don't get the linear increase in productivity that you would expect. While there is more potential manpower, there is also an increase in management overhead and initially there is a decrease in team productivity as the new person is brought up to speed by the rest of the team. The more people on a team, the more effort is required to manage that team, pass information around and the decision making process is slowed down. A 4 man team sitting in one room can function extremely fast, making decisions on the fly and keeping everyone in the loop without effort, but when that team gets bigger they have to stop work to have meetings, write reports and follow more rigid processes to ensure that everyone is kept up-to-date with design decisions.

Very effective small companies can often suffer badly as a consequence of growing too fast. Growth is needed, but it's a very fine balance.

[numerobis]

Bringing a modder up to speed on the system they've been modding is not going to be too expensive, if they have a background in the industry.

The situation seems like everybody wins for me. A modder who doesn't get hired by Squad to work on KSP can just as easily abandon their mods when they get bored of it. The KSP community is lively, so there will be new modders. Also, at least the plugins have to be open-source (do parts packs need open licenses?), so we can always just branch them if the original authors nod off.

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hi,

I was just wondering myself if any modders wre gonna be hired - sweet is all I can say.

I think it would be kool if people watch others do their work and hand out kudos here and there, let alone a job.

I would rather play the game than work on it...however (!) building parts and mods is actually part of playing the game as well...I just dont want to get paid for it - cause I want to play the game - in my own time - and build mods in my own time - so we are certainly greatful we have such awesome mods in the first place !

KUDOS to KSP MODDERS !

Cdr Zeta

[cesarcurado]

I'm alright with this, if he is joining the team then it means we can expect quality additions to the game, it worked with the mod pack, I think it will work in vanilla.

[Brabbit1987]

I see this as a great thing for the modding community. Will bring in many new mod developers who are looking for the same type of opportunity. It's making myself think to start getting involved as well. Not really using my modeling skills for anything at this moment, yet I am good enough to model cars. But I feel it's a poor excuse to make mods to only do it in hopes to be hired. So probably wont. I rather do it because I want to. *shrugs* Maybe in the future.

[leax256]

A great thing about modders joining the official team is that they now have access to the core of the game and the source code as well as knowing exactly what the team is planning. I can only see good coming from this. to answer the origional post, once the game gets more complete and time is freed up for these modders we could expect to see even better mods coming from these guys.

[rhoark]

B9 parts would look just like they belonged alongside stock if the textures were blurred slightly and the specularity turned down.

[Brabbit1987]

A great thing about modders joining the official team is that they now have access to the core of the game and the source code as well as knowing exactly what the team is planning. I can only see good coming from this. to answer the origional post, once the game gets more complete and time is freed up for these modders we could expect to see even better mods coming from these guys.

Ya that is true, many devs have ideas that do not always make it into the products development map, they can simply make it a mod later down the road. Though, I am not sure if there are any rules for that. Once you work for a company, many times anything you make for that company or game becomes ownership of that company.

[leax256]

Ya that is true, many devs have ideas that do not always make it into the products development map, they can simply make it a mod later down the road. Though, I am not sure if there are any rules for that. Once you work for a company, many times anything you make for that company or game becomes ownership of that company.

Then perhaps that will be the beginings of expansions.

[Brabbit1987]

Yes, I hope so :3.

[AmpsterMan]

Reading through this thread has made me realize that we are all spoiled by how awesome Ksp is.

A mod maker get's hired and people complain; the lead dev shares his own unadulterated private thoughts, and people go BALLISTIC; Moderators are actually effective and active, people piss and moan about them misusing their power; people are told certain features will NOT be in the game; a zillion "why don't you just..." threads appear.

This is not a crticism on the OP, just an observation on how good we have it here

[The-Bean]

Does anybody know who Maxmaps is?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/member.php/67937-Maxmaps

[Caelib]

Personally, I would rather see the stock game incorporate the best mods by hiring them as developers. I think mods are great, but there is limited support and let's face it ... people lose interest and they stop working with some updates.

[Tada]

I dont care much, but I want those sweet sweet cockipits!

[blspblackdeath]

I can actually see why they hired him. Harvester said the next updates will aim for career mode. So that the new dev can focus on futuristic parts which can be unlocked later in the game.

[Ted]

I can see where you are coming from, hiring modders can lead to Add-Ons being discontinued. As others have said, that content - or similar works - does end up being in the game. However, another benefit is that other modders will now work to fill the gap left and thus we get new content and the modding scene is further away from stagnating, than it may have been.