Apollo Mission Pack Development (Beta version released!)

[iamaphazael]

Hey All. Some of you may remember from before the great server fire that I was working on a full Apollo/Saturn replica. I've finally gotten back to work on it, and have been spending a little time each day converting everything to Unity 4, fixing collision meshes, finishing models that needed it, resizing the Saturn parts so they're more compatible with other modpacks, fighting with folding ladder animations, etc.

Forum user Razorcane is on the development team now and has been doing a fantastic job cleaning up models and creating some beautiful textures for the LM/CSM parts.

Click here to download the current Beta release!

(I should note here that the Saturn parts I'm using are not my own work, but are modified from the wonderful parts pack made by KingTramp back in the 0.13 era. He has given permission for other people to pick up development on his parts, and I will be giving him full credit in the eventual release. All of the LM/CSM parts are entirely the work of myself, Ilniss, and Razorcane)

This is going to be the new development thread for the project. I have a lot going on in real life, so I'm going to try to devote an hour or two to the project each day, and post progress as often as I can. So, check back here for news, progress, pleas for help, etc.

Speaking of pleas for help: a few weeks ago, a couple of different people contacted me expressing interest in working on textures for the parts, because although my modelling skills have been improving, my textures are still pretty terrible. Specifically there were some people interested in making "kerbalized" versions. However, I lost everyone's messages in the meltdown. If any of you are still out there, please get back in touch with me. I'm back at my home base now, and on my development machine, so I can now send you a full set of models and uv unwraps that actually represent the current state of all of the parts.

Hope to hear from you all soon. Thanks!

Edited June 20, 2013 by iamaphazael

[Whirligig Girl]

I *might* be able to help, but I am only beginning the very start of texture art.

[Ph34rb0t]

Did you do this in Blender or 3ds Max?

I'd love to work on it, but I'd have to map the model all by myself.

[iamaphazael]

I work in Blender. I just sent you a PM.

[iamaphazael]

I'm also looking for suggestions for names for the pack. I'm not going to call it "Kerpollo", because there was already a pack with that name and it died. I was thinking about making it a sort of collaborative, open-source project (in which case it could simply be OpenApollo), but it seems like it would be really difficult to maintain something like that, as one minor change to a model can require changes in the texture and in the cfgs. It's difficult enough to do version management when it's just me working on it; I imagine it would be a nightmare to deal with if there were multiple people simultaneously making commits. I may still release all the source in a more static way. We shall see.

In the meantime, if anyone has clever naming ideas, let me hear them

[WCOLE360]

Lionhead Aerospace is working on the MEM too. Ask Yogui87 if he would like some help.

[Whirligig Girl]

Lionhead's MEM has TERRIBLE textures. That's why I didn't download them.

[iamaphazael]

I don't like to speak badly of another modder's work, but I'm not a big fan of the Lionhead MEM myself. For me, it's that it's made up of parts from other packs. I'm trying to make something that's as accurate a replica as possible.

[Guest]

I'm also looking for suggestions for names for the pack. I'm not going to call it "Kerpollo", because there was already a pack with that name and it died. I was thinking about making it a sort of collaborative, open-source project (in which case it could simply be OpenApollo), but it seems like it would be really difficult to maintain something like that, as one minor change to a model can require changes in the texture and in the cfgs. It's difficult enough to do version management when it's just me working on it; I imagine it would be a nightmare to deal with if there were multiple people simultaneously making commits. I may still release all the source in a more static way. We shall see.

In the meantime, if anyone has clever naming ideas, let me hear them

Perhaps something simple, like AMP [Apollo Missions Pack]?

[iamaphazael]

Perhaps something simple, like AMP [Apollo Missions Pack]?

I like that! It's simple and also a little tough sounding. I may well go with that. Thanks!

[Guest]

My pleasure!

[iamaphazael]

So I finally got around to experimenting with internal models today, and here's the result so far:

It may not look like much yet, but I'm pretty thrilled that I was able to follow tjitte's comprehensive but difficult to read tutorial, and now I have a pretty good sense of what the process looks like. The Kerbals are understandably a little nervous because they don't yet have any instruments. Or windows. Or proper textures. But they've got nothing to worry about. All that stuff will get there eventually.

[iamaphazael]

Today's progress: Messed around with the fairings a little bit, and then had to resize the Saturn parts (again!), so that the fairings would clear the LM and not leave the legs sticking out through them. Then I had to go back and resize the fairings so they fit around the CM properly, then that didn't work, so I had to go back and start them over from scratch. It's been a long morning, but now I'm pretty happy with the way they came out:

(NOTE: I know the actual Apollo fairings didn't have the black and white pattern on them. That was mostly so I could tell if they were clipping into each other at the seams or not. I'll make them the correct color for the release version).

So my next order of business, I think, is going to be to figure out what to do about the shaders. I thought it was just me going crazy, but I remembered stuff looking better before, but I found one of my old screenshots, and it does look worse now than it used to (the old version is on the left, the new one on the right:

I have to figure out if it's something that changed between 0.18 and 0.19, or if something happened when I switched over to Unity 4, or if there's something else I missed. If anyone has any insight, please let me know. Thanks.

(Edit: Wow, I'm not very observant. I just noticed that the insignia and stuff on the tanks are different between those two images. I must have used the textures out of the Kerpollo pack when I went back and redid everything in Unity 4. I just replaced them with the textures from KingTramp's original parts, but, alas, that did not make things look any better)

That's it for today. Happy launches!

Edited May 21, 2013 by iamaphazael

[Guest]

Looks like you're making excellent progress!

[Razorcane]

First of all, good luck! Secondly, I'm trying to be as constructive as I can here; your textures are very bright, and very inaccurate. There are many pictures of the apollo spacecraft all other the internet, and I think you should utilize the power of google to find them. You might also want to make your own adapter for the lunar module(aka, the fairings), as the stability of that part of the craft is greatly reduced when using fairing factory, because the top of the fairings are not attached to the service module. Again, I wish you great luck!

[Ph34rb0t]

Oh, you're going for the all-in-one (CSM, LM, S-IVB, S-II, S-I)? :|

First of all, good luck! Secondly, I'm trying to be as constructive as I can here; your textures are very bright, and very inaccurate.

They're not even remotely finished...

[iamaphazael]

First of all, good luck! Secondly, I'm trying to be as constructive as I can here; your textures are very bright, and very inaccurate. There are many pictures of the apollo spacecraft all other the internet, and I think you should utilize the power of google to find them. You might also want to make your own adapter for the lunar module(aka, the fairings), as the stability of that part of the craft is greatly reduced when using fairing factory, because the top of the fairings are not attached to the service module. Again, I wish you great luck!

Thanks for your input. I take your comments in the spirit they were intended. As Ph34b0t points out, all the textures you see are placeholders that I've made just to have something to look at. Most of them are simply full-frame washes of a solid color. I've got a collection of reference images, and hopefully myself or someone else will be able to do a better rendition than I've got so far. As far as fairings go, I'm not using fairing factory, and the ones you see are custom-made. Although, mine also have the problem that they don't attach to anything at the top. I've tried to make the collider meshes as small as possible to reduce wobble on them, and we'll have to see how that holds up. The worst case scenario will be that they'll have to be strutted together from the inside. Time will tell.

Oh, you're going for the all-in-one (CSM, LM, S-IVB, S-II, S-I)? :|

Yes, I am. Or, I'm at least developing them in tandem, as they need to be compatible with one another. I may release them as separate packs. Not sure yet. You seem unhappy about the idea of doing them together. (Also, I haven't forgotten about you. I'll put together a set of models and get it out to you hopefully tomorrow).

[Netris]

Are you going to make only Saturn V or Saturn I & Ib aswell ? Maybe some of the proposed evolution of the Saturn V ?

[Guest]

Is everything correctly scaled on those? It seems that the fairings are a bit too tall, or the base is not wide enough. Also, proportions between first 2 stages and the 3rd one seem off.

[iamaphazael]

Are you going to make only Saturn V or Saturn I & Ib aswell ? Maybe some of the proposed evolution of the Saturn V ?

Someone asked me when I was just getting started with the Saturn parts if I'd make a Ib. It's something I'll definitely consider when I finish this project. KSP is going to need to get a taller VAB, though

[iamaphazael]

Is everything correctly scaled on those? It seems that the fairings are a bit too tall, or the base is not wide enough. Also, proportions between first 2 stages and the 3rd one seem off.

I have made some tweaks to the proportions, and you're correct on both counts. The fairings go up higher than they are supposed to. I had to do this in order to enclose the LM without making the rest of the rocket any wider. Also, the size ratio between stage I/II and stage II is different. I originally did this because I was trying to make the Saturn parts compatible with the sizes established in NovaPunch and KW, but that kind of went out the window today when I messed with everything to get the fairings to fit right, so I may go back to the correct proportions for the rocket. I suppose I could go all the way, and scale up the rocket so it's the proper size with respect to the LM/CSM, but I'm pretty comitted to not making the SM smaller than the 2.5m it currently is, so making the rest of it proportional would make the whole thing pretty forking huge. If that's what people want, though, maybe that's what I'll do.

As always, input would be greatly appreciated

[LaydeeDem]

Today's progress: Messed around with the fairings a little bit, and then had to resize the Saturn parts (again!), so that the fairings would clear the LM and not leave the legs sticking out through them. Then I had to go back and resize the fairings so they fit around the CM properly, then that didn't work, so I had to go back and start them over from scratch. It's been a long morning, but now I'm pretty happy with the way they came out:

(NOTE: I know the actual Apollo fairings didn't have the black and white pattern on them. That was mostly so I could tell if they were clipping into each other at the seams or not. I'll make them the correct color for the release version).

So my next order of business, I think, is going to be to figure out what to do about the shaders. I thought it was just me going crazy, but I remembered stuff looking better before, but I found one of my old screenshots, and it does look worse now than it used to (the old version is on the left, the new one on the right:

I have to figure out if it's something that changed between 0.18 and 0.19, or if something happened when I switched over to Unity 4, or if there's something else I missed. If anyone has any insight, please let me know. Thanks.

(Edit: Wow, I'm not very observant. I just noticed that the insignia and stuff on the tanks are different between those two images. I must have used the textures out of the Kerpollo pack when I went back and redid everything in Unity 4. I just replaced them with the textures from KingTramp's original parts, but, alas, that did not make things look any better)

That's it for today. Happy launches!

Get an edge split modifier applied to that ASAP.

[Guest]

I suppose I could go all the way, and scale up the rocket so it's the proper size with respect to the LM/CSM, but I'm pretty comitted to not making the SM smaller than the 2.5m it currently is, so making the rest of it proportional would make the whole thing pretty forking huge. If that's what people want, though, maybe that's what I'll do.

Since you're not going for compatibility with NP/KW, then I'd say, make it humongous as it should be. It's Saturn V, the tallest rocket ever build. It's supposed to be enormous. Now that we don't have to worry about the tower being in the way, you could as well make it big. Also, since 2.5m is pretty close to 64% of 3.9m (the actual CSM diameter), it'd have an additional benefit of being correctly scaled with other "realistic scale" mods, most notably Soyuz (for those who'd like to replicate ASTP mission, the docking adapter is easy enough to jury-rig).

[iamaphazael]

Get an edge split modifier applied to that ASAP.

I am an idiot. I had set all my sharp edges, and that didn't seem to make any difference. I forgot to actually apply the modifier :|

It's looking much better now. Thanks for the reminder.

Since you're not going for compatibility with NP/KW, then I'd say, make it humongous as it should be. It's Saturn V, the tallest rocket ever build. It's supposed to be enormous. Now that we don't have to worry about the tower being in the way, you could as well make it big. Also, since 2.5m is pretty close to 64% of 3.9m (the actual CSM diameter), it'd have an additional benefit of being correctly scaled with other "realistic scale" mods, most notably Soyuz (for those who'd like to replicate ASTP mission, the docking adapter is easy enough to jury-rig).

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm going to end up doing. This thing is going to be a monster.

[Netris]

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm going to end up doing. This thing is going to be a monster.

Saturn V was a monster ^^ It has to be in KSP so I totally agree with Dragon