[0.20.2] Thermostabilizers and Solar Heating (0.1 Alpha)

[OrbitusII]

Brought to you by Puffin Technologies Development

Got overheating SRBs? Too close to the sun and your Kerbals are cooking in their crew modules? Then this plugin is for you! The heat sinks included will maintain (or attempt to) the same temperature as long as your vessel is physics-enabled.

Notice: This plugin is currently in an alpha state and so is not completed. There may also be bugs and other problems that occur when in use, so please report any issues you encounter on this thread.

Model Previews (not in use yet)

Downloads

Alpha 0.1

Source Code

Spaceport has been acting up, so the links are to my Dropbox.

Planned Features (currently being incorporated)

More accurate solar heating (special thanks to Holo and ROFLCopter64bit)

Powered cooling systems (with dynamic stableTemp settings using GUI)

Crew life support (maybe; as separate download)

Credits:

Models: Mekan1k

Plugins: OrbitusII

Consulting: Holo, ROFLCopter64bit (thread)

This work is licensed under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0.

Edited June 4, 2013 by OrbitusII

[Mekan1k]

Necessary for anyone who does not want explody rockets

[ahappydude]

Nuclear rockets will have easier times now cheers

[OrbitusII]

Nuclear rockets will have easier times now cheers

They will for sure once I get the all-ship cooling set up. All you have to do right now is enable surface attachment on the engine config files to allow you to place the sinks on the engine itself. Stack and all-vessel cooling should be incorporated soon, especially now that I have the solar heating and C# extensions finished and figured out.

[Scotius]

Those heat radiators will not work well in space. It seems you used processor cooler as an inspiration, but those work mainly due to convection. There's no air in space Main method of thermal transfer there is radiation, and your parallel plates will radiate heat into each other. You would want something like fins on stock RTG, spaced by 90 degrees.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/basicdesign.php#id--Heat_Radiators

Here's the relevant link. (Thank you Nyrath )

[MGUARN]

well using pc heatsinks seems very kerbal ,if thats the theme of this mod.

[Mekan1k]

Those heat radiators will not work well in space. It seems you used processor cooler as an inspiration, but those work mainly due to convection. There's no air in space Main method of thermal transfer there is radiation, and your parallel plates will radiate heat into each other. You would want something like fins on stock RTG, spaced by 90 degrees.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/basicdesign.php#id--Heat_Radiators

Here's the relevant link. (Thank you Nyrath )

The parallel radiators are not for space- the weird broken object is designed to be a flush black-body radiator, for use in space. The pattern of facets on it's surface is supposed to be a fractal pattern, to maximize surface area and decrease radiating towards another panel- the inside surface would be flat, to allow for even distribution of heat across the internal surface. In essence, it lets the heat go one way faster then the other, allowing the material to act as a 1-way mirror for heat.

(It goes one way, not the other)

EDIT: I think we should make a radiator panel that is like your description.....

Edited May 18, 2013 by Mekan1k

[shadowsutekh]

Are there coolant tanks that drain a coolant? Or is it like "place part....profit!" style?

What would happen if you made a vessel and did not install a cooling system? Are there plans for parts like engines or other things to explode?

[Mekan1k]

Are there coolant tanks that drain a coolant? Or is it like "place part....profit!" style?

What would happen if you made a vessel and did not install a cooling system? Are there plans for parts like engines or other things to explode?

The plan is for the system to take advantage of the natural heating system... The heat from all over the ship would be available for the radiators to pull, so that the engines can be run at full strength, and it is supposed to simulated heating by the sun....

It uses the inbuilt heating system to take advantage of how objects are supposed to radiate heat or not, depending on where the sun is... So, well, as far as I understand it, no. The coolant is not lost on a real life spacecraft, so it is inferred by the action of the plugin. Your job, as the engineer of ships and pilot, is to make sure the radiators stay out of the sun, if possible, and build the ship so that the radiators push the heat away from the ship.

[shadowsutekh]

Alright. Thanks for the clarification, maybe it's just Mass Effect Codex that I'm thinking of in terms of limited supply coolant in space. Though I do know older AC units that use freon would have to be refilled periodically by maintenance crews.

Just doing a little research shows that rocket fuel and oxidizer can be used in a method called "regenerative cooling" where it passes over a shroud over the engine, absorbing heat before being ignited and expelled as propellant. Though it appears to be an incredibly stressful method of cooling on an engine's internal components.

[Mekan1k]

Alright. Thanks for the clarification, maybe it's just Mass Effect Codex that I'm thinking of in terms of limited supply coolant in space. Though I do know older AC units that use freon would have to be refilled periodically by maintenance crews.

Just doing a little research shows that rocket fuel and oxidizer can be used in a method called "regenerative cooling" where it passes over a shroud over the engine, absorbing heat before being ignited and expelled as propellant. Though it appears to be an incredibly stressful method of cooling on an engine's internal components.

Regenerative cooling is effective, but it has never been utilized due to, yes, the stress on the more fragile parts of the engine. There is another version that uses the heat absorbed by the skin of the ship to act as the heating element of a massive ramjet, an acceleration shroud that would go around the exhaust....

However, there is a simple solution.

Liquids in microgravity act, well, like liquids im microgravity. They Cling to everything they come into contact with, and in space they act like this:

And the ISS's coolant system takes advantage of this- the coolant is used to siphon the heat from internal radiators, which causes the liquid to expand (the pumps establish a direction of flow), then the coolant flows through radiator fins near the black-body radiator emitters, cooling the coolant down again to be re-used. There are designs that utilize static magnetic funnels, which only allow liquid to pass through them a certain way, and may other designs for making it more efficient, but there is always a LIMIT to how much energy the coolant system can shift out of the ship.

In the freon ac's the coolant was evaporating, or leaking out of the system in minute amounts.

However, on a spacecraft any fluid can be used for cooling, as long as the heat has a place to escape.

[Scotius]

What about retractable radiator plates? I imagine it like a radial attachment port with X-shaped cross-cut. Plates are retracted during atmospheric flight, or when engines are turned off. But when they do work, plates start to emerge. When they are fully deployed, and there is still heat to radiate, they might start to glow What do you think?

[Nick Seafort]

If you look at this picture of the ISS, you can see the white radiators are essentially flat sheets that are placed perpendicular to the plane of the solar panels. The reason for this is that radiators can also *accept* heat from sources such as the sun, heating your craft. As such, having them placed perpendicular to the panels (which should always be facing the sun) should ensure the radiators never face the sun.

In terms of body mounted radiators, they also tend to simply be flat surfaces - however, in this case the satellite is either pointed so as not to present radiators to direct sunlight (except if the satellite is getting chilly for some reason) or they have louvers (shutters) that can alter their radiative properties.

[OrbitusII]

The way the plugin works is not by the shape of the radiator, but by code. We could work on more accurate radiator designs if people wanted it though. For now we're just focusing on making it work, and that includes the powered coolant systems, more accurate solar heating, and all-ship cooling.

[Nick Seafort]

For clarification, I was just posting that to help clarify some of the discussion about radiators as I had seen the authors and others talking about it.

Also, as someone on an astronautics course who has spent months dinking about with this gunk, I needed some kind of practical outlet

[Mekan1k]

The plan is that each radiator, will have been assigned specific properties in/out of atmosphere, to allow for a little* more realism.

* means that much.

[OrbitusII]

For clarification, I was just posting that to help clarify some of the discussion about radiators as I had seen the authors and others talking about it.

Also, as someone on an astronautics course who has spent months dinking about with this gunk, I needed some kind of practical outlet

No worries, I enjoy getting good feedback to improve it. I'll be sure to take a look at that article to find out what I can to improve the code.

The plan is that each radiator, will have been assigned specific properties in/out of atmosphere, to allow for a little* more realism.

* means that much.

Exactly. It currently uses a floatCurve (same thing as the ISP keying) in the config file to identify what the efficiency is at what altitude. For example, you could make it twice as efficient at 0.5 atm than it is at 1 atm; while this isn't necessarily realistic, you can make it work that way.

[firerider521]

Maybe the description would make a joke about fans not working in space?

[KinkyFerrets]

So, realistic radiators might be a thing? yay! Electrical draw for pumps, valves and solenoids oh my!

In all seriousness, this mod makes me very happy.

[Mekan1k]

Maybe the description would make a joke about fans not working in space?

I was going to make a joke to that account, and I think we will come up with something...

So, realistic radiators might be a thing? yay! Electrical draw for pumps, valves and solenoids oh my!

In all seriousness, this mod makes me very happy.

Yes. There will, however, be versions that are 'cheaty', with little -to - no electric draw (solid-state magnetic 1-way valves), and massive dark-side efficiency, and others with variable power siphoning that "dumps" the heat out of space and time, allowing for sun-bases and such, at the expense of LUDICROUS power draw.

[Greys]

I was considering a non-mod part pack to achieve this function, the idea was to add a generator module to certain things that would produce negative heat and a custom resource, HotCoolant, and another generator in other parts that would consume HotCoolant, add heat to the part, producing ColdCoolant; I gave up on it when I found out the heatDissipation settings don't work.

This looks awesome, can't wait to see it more fleshed out!

[Mekan1k]

Estimated delivery date: after 0.20 comes out (Yes, it may be a while, but my estimate is 0.20 will come out monday, 5/27/13)

[rosenkranz]

So just what does this do? I've only ever seen mainsails and jets overheat and explode. Would this help during re-entry?

[Moon Goddess]

So, well, as far as I understand it, no. The coolant is not lost on a real life spacecraft, so it is inferred by the action of the plugin.

Well the Herschel Space Telescope is now no longer functional as it has run out of liquid He coolant, and the Spitzer is nearing end of life for the same reason.

So just what does this do? I've only ever seen mainsails and jets overheat and explode. Would this help during re-entry?

In reality staying cool in space is a difficult concern, so the point of the mod would be to make heat a more serious concern and then provide parts to help you deal with that concern.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Moon Goddess

[Mekan1k]

Well the Herschel Space Telescope is now no longer functional as it has run out of liquid He coolant, and the Spitzer is nearing end of life for the same reason.

In reality staying cool in space is a difficult concern, so the point of the mod would be to make heat a more serious concern and then provide parts to help you deal with that concern.

When satellites and other vehicles are designed in space the engineers take great care to make sure there is little-to-no leakage. When things like 'operational lifespan' is calculated for spacecraft, the liquid coolant is usually not taken into account, as the leakage is so small that other, more important parts will probably break first. Satellites that end their life like the Herschel are exceedingly rare due to the fact that the coolant systems are supposed to be contained.

That, and the Herschel was designed to be almost at zero kelvin, to see sub-millimeter wavelengths, making the vacuum of space effectively WARMER than the telescope's optical systems. Same goes for the Spitzer, at a whopping 5 degrees kelvin, it is roughly 2 degrees warmer than the vacuum of space if the vacuum was in shadow.

Let me put it like this: our plugin does not assume that the vehicle is cooled by a dedicated supply of liquid helium. It uses our own coolant, harvested from our own unethical sources.

To rosenkranz:

Moon_Goddess is correct- Staying cool in space is difficult, and this plugin is supposed to make it so that you can use the radiators for, well anything. And yes, it should (in theory) be able to assist with re-entry, but that is not the primary purpose.