The Simple Heavy Lifting challenge.

[xandalis]

Reducing this challenge to "let's see who can launch the most empty fuel tanks into orbit" seems cheap to me. So I agree, the scoring is flawed.

I would add some kind of requirement that the final "payload" not be a bunch of empty fuel tanks strapped together. I would emphasize the "payload" be something useful rather than empty fuel tanks. A payload would be defined as delivering something, such as fuel, or crew, or an interplanetary craft. Perhaps even penalizing for emptied fuel tanks.

But one could argue that the empty fuel tanks indeed are the payload if your mission is to build some uber refueling station.

I'm starting to agree with this, at least based on the entries I'm seeing. Though I should note that I was speaking purely on a technical aspect: the payload is whatever is left after the lifter stage(s) have been expended and jettisoned. lots of empty tanks (deadweight) that aren't intentionally still there, is poor engineering/design in my eyes, but hey, not the challenge creator.

Makes me kind of reconsider my time spent on this, since I've been trying to design an actual lifter AND payload around this challenge. Which, if I understand the scoring, those part-count modifiers are for part count at pre-launch/sitting on the pad.

[xandalis]

Alright, finally calling it "done." Here's the link to the album on imgur: http://imgur.com/a/R5ULS#0 I'll upload more screenshots after I complete it's trial mission to the Mun. I'll leave the scoring speculation out for now.

Edit: the album is mostly ordered "correctly," but it was a rush-job. Relevant screens should be mostly in order at the front of the album.

Edit: Mission debrief

Well, after several tries, and several bouts of technical difficulties on Jeb's part (I swear, my Jeb is a bad luck charm... in this particular save anyway, EVERY mission Jeb's been on has had some form of mishap, this being no exception...), I call this a partial success. Got the lander portion onto the Mun's surface, near Jeb's earlier crash site(s). However, it did not have enough fuel left to take off again. I tried to bring one of my service tugs (already on the surface nearby) over to hook up for refueling (the other ship has KAS, and is fit for field work, including spare radial mounts for use on non-KAS equipped vehicles), but, tragedy struck, and the pilots were killed when they misjudged the sub-orbital hop's breaking maneuver, and slammed the entire tug down at about 150m/s. RIP Hertop and Johndrin Kerman. So, once again, Jeb is stranded on the Mun (Lonely astronaut anyone?) in a bone-dry lander, with 85ish tons of fuel in orbit... that he can't reach.

So, my scoring estimate:

665 parts on pad, -30%

no jets, +20%

no mainsails, +20%

no rockomax 2.5m engines, +10%

spent stages deorbit, +10%

has docking ports, +10%

sustainable long-term service, +10% (RCS, manned/probe core backup, power)

Jeb on board, -999%/+999%

Jeb got to stare at not just one, but TWO ion engines, ???

Final mass after attaining a 105x100km orbit, 174.26 tonnes

estimate: 243.96

Link to the craft file on dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgm8dz6ab4fo4x0/XD-Type%20SHLLV%20proto%20R5a1d.craft

Edited June 8, 2013 by xandalis
Mission debrief&and various insomina-related errors

[Innuce]

What can I say, I'm a sucker for utility...

I'm thinking of adding a small tug craft to my megaship. Technically, my fueler/station functions as a tug, bringing the lander/rover to whatever world I want to explore. But at times, it would be nice to have a smaller, nimbler craft to jockey things around. My initial concept was to just dock together the modular fueler/stations, but it would actually add alot of redundant parts to the overall station.

I have a redesigned lifter stage to get 2 of the fueler/stations into orbit simultaneously. Once in orbit, they would detach from their vertical connection, then redock radially.

Ready for liftoff...

Two (mostly) full Jumbo tanks in orbit after staging complete. This payload ends up being actually 104t, heavier than my other craft with the lander/rover!

Re-docked radially. This craft could conceivably power itself to another world with it's 8 engines now, with accomodations for 2 more kerbals, or just hang out as a station/refueler.

Perhaps all I really need is one of these in the center, and add on extra fuel tanks to the four sides with a small tug? Basically leaving off the command pod, ASAS, and mechJeb stuff from the outer tanks.

[Driosenth]

Let's see what this comes out to

Final Mass of 809.87 tons

Orbit of 100

No decoupled stages in stable orbits. 10%

No Jets = 20%

Docking Port for Fueling (Though this thing is filled to with it) = 10%

RCS for controlled docking = 10%

1287 Parts = -10%,-20%,-40%,-60%

Total bonus of -80%

809.87 - 647.896 = 161.974

This monstrosity was made possible by draining each engine's tanks to the next, then jettisoning that engine.

At first, it made KSP crawl to almost nothing. Once it dropped several stages it picked back up. Took me 15 real time minutes to get it into orbit.

This design could be adjusted to the medium sized engine, but the number of parts would probably increase if similar masses were desired.

Edit: As this was waiting to be approved, I added another layer of hexagons to this thing and got a stable 100km orbit with a 1185.04 t payload.

Here's a post on it.

I would lose the 10% bonus for not leaving debris in a stable orbit so I would have a final score of:

1185.04 - 1066.536 = 118.504

Edited June 19, 2013 by Driosenth
Numerical Error

[AmpsterMan]

I will be posting here soon enough, just a question. Can I use the fairings from KW Rocketry?

[maackey]

Aww, I was making a heavy lifter today, and was thinking of making a similar challenge, but I'm using KW. (and FAR/mechjeb)

I know its not a valid entry, but I just thought I'd be fun to see what I got:

400 parts or less. +20% (just over 300 including struts)

Uses no Jet engines. +20%

Use no "mainsail" engines. +20% (technically they weren't but I don't think this really counts as Griffins are pretty much equivalent)

Spent decoupled stages do not enter stable orbits. +10%

Has docking ports, is capable of being refueled by other vessels. +10%

Has not only docking ports, but also RCS systems and remains controllable for any duration. In other words, it can do the refueling itself. +10%

Also, the decoupling of the boosters (and later the main stack) is downright sexy.

My payload was just over 200t of fuel tanks, not counting the last stage pusher engine (which has its own command pod/rcs to de-orbit itself with any leftover fuel) which was probably another 10 - 20 tons.

I don't have the most recent screenshots, but it was an iteration of this:

The payload:

[Driosenth]

So I added another hexagon layer and removed the docking port. (I wanted it to be a Big Dumb Rocket)

Album Link Here

Number of Parts: 2521

Initial Mass: 10026.60 t

Final Mass: 1655.50 t

Initial Fuel: 731520 units

Final Fuel: 119853 units

Burned Fuel: 611667 units

Total Number of Stages: 63

Number of Stages Used: 53

Number of Stages Unused: 10

Here it is on liftoff

When it first achieves orbit

In orbit in sunlight

Lets add up the bonuses

Use more then 550 parts. -10%

Use more then 600 parts. -20%

Use more then 700 parts. -40%

Use more then 800 parts. -60%

Uses no Jet engines. +20%

Total Bonus of -110%

1655.5 * 1.1 = 1821.05

1655.5 - 1821.05 = -165.55

EDIT

I did a "quick" edit and added 3 solar panels and a docking port. I may actually use this thing as a refueler.

with RCS and a docking port I would have a net bonus of -90% so the final score on that would be 166.176 points.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Driosenth

[Nao]

Woha that's a lot of mainsails >_<, it's funny how the score ended up negative haha.

On the topic of score, 49 skippers with orange tanks, and no struts (and some clever design to make the thing not wobble itself to death) can go over 1350 points

[Doull]

Okay here is my entry.

+10% Less than 500 Parts

+20% Less than 400 Parts

+20% Uses No Jet Engines

+10% Uses No Rockomax Engines

+10% Spent Stages do not enter Orbit

+10% Has Docking Ports

+10% Has RCS and is controllable

Total +90% of 205.84 Tonnes in Orbit = 391.096 ( I hope I got this right) I use No mods at all. My game is all vanilla.

[GusTurbo]

Is there any bonus for not using asparagus staging?

[Nao]

Is there any bonus for not using asparagus staging?

Not a direct one, but asparagus takes somewhat more parts, brings less mass to orbit than SSTO, and can create derbies in orbit, all detracting from final score.