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.20 is buggy.

Sputnik-1

By Sputnik-1
in KSP1 Discussion

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Pursuedtank

Pursuedtank

Posted
Posted
Yes, I rather would have waited a few extra days for these really obvious bugs to be fixed instead of having to wait weeks for the fix.

Well you don't have to play the game. You can wait until they release an update that removes these bugs that you are experiencing and play then. Nobody is forcing you to play now.

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whatisthisidonteven

whatisthisidonteven

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Well you don't have to play the game. You can wait until they release an update that removes these bugs that you are experiencing and play then. Nobody is forcing you to play now.

Right, that's what I'm doing, I'm playing 0.19.1 until 0.20.1 releases - I'm just saying I would have preferred to wait a couple of extra days for them to fix the glaringly obvious bugs instead of waiting weeks for the fix.

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Guest

Guest

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They have an extensive QA team which is supposed to iron out the major bugs - They totally failed to do that for 0.20.

"Totally failed"? How, exactly? So far I've seen no "total failure". If the stock game is working adequately in this pre-release state (and by that I mean no major show-stopper bugs that are consistently reproducible across multiple user configurations), then the QA team have done their job.

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Aphox

Aphox

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Posted
"Totally failed"? How, exactly? So far I've seen no "total failure". If the stock game is working adequately in this pre-release state (and by that I mean no major show-stopper bugs that are consistently reproducible across multiple user configurations), then the QA team have done their job.

That just means that someone's flustered over a couple bugs and can't stand that a development team's best doesn't quite live up to their standards of perfection.

pre-release alpha

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Guest

Guest

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That just means that someone's flustered over a couple bugs and can't stand that a development team's best doesn't quite live up to their standards of perfection.

pre-release alpha

Yeah, I figured it was more piling on than anything else. :D

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lyndonguitar

lyndonguitar

Posted
Posted (edited)
They have an extensive QA team which is supposed to iron out the major bugs - They totally failed to do that for 0.20.

Which is not perfect, They iron out as many bugs as they can, However due to the nature of the game, there will be some overlooked bugs. They can't possibly test every single possible thing that can happen in the game, let alone have every single possible setup, hardware or software to test the game. there will be some overlooked bugs, like it or not

How many members do the QA team have? How many people own KSP?

as I said, you aren't being forced to play .20, You can still play .19(if you've backed it up) while you wait for .20 hotfixes

Is this the first early access alpha release game you've played? Because I am so damn sure KSP is better than 99% of them. If you think KSP is already buggy, wait till you play other games.

Edited by lyndonguitar
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whatisthisidonteven

whatisthisidonteven

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Totally failed"? How, exactly? So far I've seen no "total failure". If the stock game is working adequately in this pre-release state (and by that I mean no major show-stopper bugs that are consistently reproducible across multiple user configurations), then the QA team have done their job.

It's called exaggerating for effect, they let through quite a few glaringly obvious bugs is what I'm getting at.

That just means that someone's flustered over a couple bugs and can't stand that a development team's best doesn't quite live up to their standards of perfection.

pre-release alpha

Nice assumptions there.

And I understand the "alpha" thing - But the point of having all of these testing teams which can take up quite a big portion of development time is so that we don't get releases filled with bugs. I would not complain about bugs if the game was released without testing or if it was the community as a whole which did the testing (Yeah, yeah "we're all testers", I mean the pre-release testing). But the fact the extensive testing periods do exist means I do have ground to stand on when I want to talk about big bugs in updates.

Still, I have faith in Squad that this was just a one off thing (I think it was the first update using this new QA team) and 0.21 will be better, but I'm just voicing my thoughts on the update.

Edited by whatisthisidonteven
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ThePyrateCaptain

ThePyrateCaptain

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Posted (edited)

Hey, their not BUGS, their FEATURES without documentation....

Meanwhile at the news QA dept.......

"Oi! Heere test this out, let me know if it's gonna frustrate everyone,"

Ten minutes later....

"yup that should panic the masses, ya think we can get more money for a better version?"

"more money? What an idea! Johnson, your now head of QA!"

"Here, release this statement, .... We are painfully aware that many of the new features won't work on your specific machine, but be patient our whole QA dept is working on stabilizing this release, remember its not a finished product...(snicker snicker) but soon! Thanks, SQUAD."

(random snickering in the background......)

Edited by ThePyrateCaptain
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air805ronin

air805ronin

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But the fact the extensive testing periods do exist means I do have ground to stand on when I want to talk about big bugs in updates.

Still, I have faith in Squad that this was just a one off thing (I think it was the first update using this new QA team) and 0.21 will be better, but I'm just voicing my thoughts on the update.

Last I checked, which is daily, .20 went into official prerelease testing last week. The testing team is small, only a handful of people. They will miss bugs with a small team and a short timeframe. There will likely be .20.1 (and maybe more) releases as more bugs are brought to their attention.

I'm just voicing my opinion too, but this is a big reason I stuck with the store instead of Steam. I always start off a new release with a vanilla install, copying over my save if it is compatible. It has seemed, to me, that a lot of the bugs are from interactions with mods people still have shuffling about in their folders. I would advise users against doing a folder merge on a new release, especially a release like .20 where the folder structure got rearranged.

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whatisthisidonteven

whatisthisidonteven

Posted
Posted
Last I checked, which is daily, .20 went into official prerelease testing last week. The testing team is small, only a handful of people. They will miss bugs with a small team and a short timeframe. There will likely be .20.1 (and maybe more) releases as more bugs are brought to their attention.

I'm just voicing my opinion too, but this is a big reason I stuck with the store instead of Steam. I always start off a new release with a vanilla install, copying over my save if it is compatible. It has seemed, to me, that a lot of the bugs are from interactions with mods people still have shuffling about in their folders. I would advise users against doing a folder merge on a new release, especially a release like .20 where the folder structure got rearranged.

Experimentals is different from the other testing periods I think, it's just the final one that comes after all of the others. (Might be wrong)

And so wouldn't the solution be to make the team bigger if that's the case?

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air805ronin

air805ronin

Posted
Posted
Experimentals is different from the other testing periods I think, it's just the final one that comes after all of the others. (Might be wrong)

And so wouldn't the solution be to make the team bigger if that's the case?

They test throughout the whole cycle of making a new update, but the serious testing starts once they say "no more features, we're testing now." That occured last week.

A bigger team = more people. Bigger possibility of a leak of a test release. From what I've seen Squad is very picky about who goes on the testing team.

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lyndonguitar

lyndonguitar

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Experimentals is different from the other testing periods I think, it's just the final one that comes after all of the others. (Might be wrong)

And so wouldn't the solution be to make the team bigger if that's the case?

WE are that bigger team if there's any, You fail to realize it

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Nutbag Deluxe

Nutbag Deluxe

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I agree. An opt-in for testing seems the best.

Besides that, the game being an alpha is not an excuse for game-breaking bugs. If the game was free, and there weren't dedicated testing teams, I would've understood it if I encountered game-breaking bugs.

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whatisthisidonteven

whatisthisidonteven

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Strange, my performance has boosted noticablly. maybe it's a system to system deal.

Yeah, it seems to be a hit or a miss. For a lot of people they're saying they get much better performance but for a lot of others, including myself, performance seems to have got much worse.

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MaxxPower

MaxxPower

Posted
Posted

And so wouldn't the solution be to make the team bigger if that's the case?

I hate to repeat myself, but this is an alpha test, which means we are all alpha testers.

So they have a team of tens of thousands of alpha testers. What more do you want?

If you don't want to be an alpha tester wait for V1.0 to play the game!

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RPharazon

RPharazon

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Besides that, the game being an alpha is not an excuse for game-breaking bugs. If the game was free, and there weren't dedicated testing teams, I would've understood it if I encountered game-breaking bugs.

This is something we have to keep in mind. The QA testers had over a week to find massive game-breaking bugs, yet in the first few hours I encountered the lagtastic FPS-eating oceans, the "large decouplers refuse to have any sort of structural stability" bug, the "flags explode on reloading if they were placed on slopes" bug, two ships mysteriously disappearing, and the "switching from ship to ship within render range using the [ and ] keys makes a ship disassemble completely and its parts reach escape velocity" bug.

That's from an hour or so of playing, simply involving nothing more than going to the Mun, and docking in orbit. No plugins, purely vanilla. I have a very, very hard time accepting the "it's an alpha so you should ignore game-breaking bugs even though there's week-long experimentals and QA periods" excuse in that case.

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Fox967

Fox967

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You wanna play a bug-free KSP? Then wait till Squad releases version 1.00. Problem solved. When Squad finally says 'this is our finished product', then you can whine about any bugs, and hey, i'll even agree with you. Bugs shouldn't be in a finished product.

But KSP isn't a finished product, is it?

Its an alpha - you paid (a reduced amount) to play the alpha early. There are going to be bugs added with every release, and bugs squashed with every release. Why test over and over and over for weeks/months to fix 100% of bugs in 0.20 when 0.21 will add more bugs and may even reintroduce old ones? Its common sense to do all bug fixing in the final few versions, when everything has been added. KSP isn't finished. Its not even close. Get over it. If you can't handle bugs, stay away from alphas.

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ThePyrateCaptain

ThePyrateCaptain

Posted
Posted (edited)

Alejandro:

It’s*very important! As I stated before, their feedback let us know how good*or bad we were going on the game. Also, feedback helps us to improve it*and to know what the players want for the game. The community is*growing very fast and also their opinions and comments. It’s really*great to read what they have to say about KSP.

Felipe:

Their*feedback is our greatest asset I think. We value the community’s*opinions more than we value our own, since they’re the ones we’re making*the game for. So hearing what they have to say is of paramount*importance to us. In the end, they’re the ones that decide how the game*will turn out to be. We may have a vision for the finished game, but it*all comes down to how they will receive it, and we’re always willing to*change our way of thinking if they don’t agree.

There is a whole interview with the devs on the topic.

http://truepcgaming.com/2011/08/08/kerbal-space-program-developer-interview/

Edited by ThePyrateCaptain
Factual
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Kosmic Debris

Kosmic Debris

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There were huge foundational changes and a new development methodology for this release...and it's buggy. Go figure.

Squad is smart and they'll get stuff fixed. Professional developers know that you can test the Hell out of something and still have it be fundamentally broken on release. The idea that each alpha release needs to be release quality just demonstrates inexperience with large-scale professional software development.

Squad, thanks for the update and the cool stuff you added. Thanks in advance for the long nights ahead sorting out the bugs.

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ThePyrateCaptain

ThePyrateCaptain

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So try an imagine what it would be like if NO ONE complained about the bugs, complaining is in our nature. Too hot, too cold, too wet too dry, what ever, but jumping down someone's throat about complaining is like complaining to the complainer. Silly. And the whole, Get over it, or deal with it attitude? That belongs to the "exclusive" members who have never failed at anything they have done or had any bad experiences in their lives what so ever.

Just saying, relax, don't bash the complainers, without them, you all would still be under England's rule or saluting Adolph hitlers regime.

Complaints?

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