FusTek Station Parts Dev Thread (continuation of fusty's original work)

[sharpspoonful]

Remember, we have space inside of the docking rings too. So why not have it slid up into the docking ring's plural space? Or have the hatch mechanism be on the docking rings, as the only time the hatch should be accessed is when it is docked to another module.

[MainSailor]

Well, I thought about this by saying 'how are they currently doing this on the ISS?' first.

If what I've seen is correct, the hatches on berthed modules (the ones that are permanently connected to the structure/each other) are actually completely removable. Presumably the hatch panel is stowed.

The other method would be for spacecraft that dock temporarily (Soyuz, Progress, ATV, Dragon, etc.) At least for those that use CBM (currently only Dragon and HTV I think)...the hatch looks like it slides on an arm or a rail, on sort of a compound-action (slides, then swings). I think a system like this could be used within the smaller confines of the Kirs module:

(Actual hatch opening starts around 1:28)

I was trying to find the segment in the Sunni Williams videos where I thought I remembered her using one of the hatches but that might have been one of the Russian probe and drogue type.

[Starwaster]

Well, I thought about this by saying 'how are they currently doing this on the ISS?' first.

If what I've seen is correct, the hatches on berthed modules (the ones that are permanently connected to the structure/each other) are actually completely removable. Presumably the hatch panel is stowed.

The other method would be for spacecraft that dock temporarily (Soyuz, Progress, ATV, Dragon, etc.) At least for those that use CBM (currently only Dragon and HTV I think)...the hatch looks like it slides on an arm or a rail, on sort of a compound-action (slides, then swings). I think a system like this could be used within the smaller confines of the Kirs module:

(Actual hatch opening starts around 1:28)

I was trying to find the segment in the Sunni Williams videos where I thought I remembered her using one of the hatches but that might have been one of the Russian probe and drogue type.

Wow, I thought maybe there would be an actual schematic out there on the hatch but I couldn't find one... (for Dragon)

Not even in the user manual. (which makes sense since those are only for customers planning payloads; it's the astronauts on the station who actually deal with the hatch)

[sumghai]

Remember, we have space inside of the docking rings too. So why not have it slid up into the docking ring's plural space? Or have the hatch mechanism be on the docking rings, as the only time the hatch should be accessed is when it is docked to another module.

Not really, I'm afraid.

Generally speaking, hatch actuation should also be independent of what space is available inside the docking rings. The seemingly empty space you see in the FusTek IACBMs is actually where the rotating guidance fins would move to, as well as its supporting hardware (motor controllers, latch/bolt drivers). It's worse with the stock Clamp-O-Trons, whose outer circular hatch doors are much smaller than the Karmony hatches themselves.

Well, I thought about this by saying 'how are they currently doing this on the ISS?' first.

If what I've seen is correct, the hatches on berthed modules (the ones that are permanently connected to the structure/each other) are actually completely removable. Presumably the hatch panel is stowed.

Ideally, this is what I would have wanted, although as I've pointed out, it's a herculean task to design internal doorways in-game that can see right through to adjacent modules' IVA models.

The other method would be for spacecraft that dock temporarily (Soyuz, Progress, ATV, Dragon, etc.) At least for those that use CBM (currently only Dragon and HTV I think)...the hatch looks like it slides on an arm or a rail, on sort of a compound-action (slides, then swings). I think a system like this could be used within the smaller confines of the Kirs module:

No joy. I've consulted numerous videos myself, and they all slide and swing upwards. This is fine for the Karmony, but there simply isn't enough height to do the same in the Kirs.

Wow, I thought maybe there would be an actual schematic out there on the hatch but I couldn't find one... (for Dragon)

Not even in the user manual. (which makes sense since those are only for customers planning payloads; it's the astronauts on the station who actually deal with the hatch)

No luck here in the ISS familiarization manual, either.

Most detailed info I obtained was from the collectSPACE forums, where someone actually bought a surplus CBM hatch. My Karmony hatches are much thicker, but that's because fusty's original models have them sticking out of the bulkheads outside, and I needed the extra thickness for the hatch to seat properly in the bulkhead (Or maybe I just like to overengineer things).

---

Progress Report, 20 May 2014

Kirs: Garage-door style arrangement.

Since I wanted some consistency with other Karmony hatches, I attempted a configuration where the hatches opened upwards. As can be seen, it is doable, but has the potential to graze Kerbal heads:

Fig 54 - FusTek Kirs Hatch Study (2)

Then I read the second half of Gryphorim's suggestion:

Door pulls into hatch do disengage seal, then when clear of bulkhead, slides on rail to the side, rotating to parallel with wall.

Given that the Kerbal occupant inside the Kirs module sits facing starboard, a sideways-sliding design would have the hatches stowed behind the Kerbal on the port side, which consequently means losing wall-mounted stowage there. Also, the embedded sliding rails would require the floor to be raised and the ceiling to be lowered such that the effective height of the corridor would be 812.5 mm (the same as the hatch) - head-grazing is still possible.

The final solution, it seems, would most likely be:

- Garage door mechanism opening upwards

- Sliding rails mounted on side walls

- Possibly reduce the hull thickness (60 mm? 40 mm?) so that the final position of the hatches in the open position can be raised (while simultaneously lowering the floor) to greatly reduce head-grazing.

I'll probably come back to the Kirs at a later date - for now, I'll rework the hatch prop for the Karmony modules, and continue on from there.

[Starwaster]

Most detailed info I obtained was from the collectSPACE forums, where someone actually bought a surplus CBM hatch. My Karmony hatches are much thicker, but that's because fusty's original models have them sticking out of the bulkheads outside, and I needed the extra thickness for the hatch to seat properly in the bulkhead (Or maybe I just like to overengineer things).

Errr ok so you're basically telling us you're a... Kerbal?

[softweir]

What's stopping the hatches from swinging sideways to a position behind the operator - apart from consistency with other hatches? Would that give more space? How much work would it be to rotate all the other hatches to correspond?

[sumghai]

Errr ok so you're basically telling us you're a... Kerbal?

It's a habit of mine - getting into the mindset of the intended end-user of the product/system I'm designing.

What's stopping the hatches from swinging sideways to a position behind the operator - apart from consistency with other hatches? Would that give more space? How much work would it be to rotate all the other hatches to correspond?

As already mentioned:

- Loss of wall-mounted storage on port side

- Reduced internal height in order to accommodate sliding rails.

Reducing the wall thickness and swinging the doors upwards permits a higher ceiling and lower floor (effectively more vertical volume), at the (acceptable) cost of narrower side walls.

I'll toss up more diagrams later to explain what I mean.

[HeadHunter67]

As can be seen, it is doable, but has the potential to graze Kerbal heads.

Only if they're standing with their feet "down", on the "floor"... kind of a meaningless concept in space. Turn that 80x50 cylinder sideways and see if it's still an issue. Think of the inner hatch as "down" and the outer hatch as "up" (or vice versa, if you prefer).

[sumghai]

Only if they're standing with their feet "down", on the "floor"... kind of a meaningless concept in space. Turn that 80x50 cylinder sideways and see if it's still an issue. Think of the inner hatch as "down" and the outer hatch as "up" (or vice versa, if you prefer).

As stated previously, it's still an issue even when sideways, except that rather than the hatch grazing heads, it's the reduced compartment height itself.

---

(Addendum to) Progress Report, 20 May 2014

It suddenly dawned on me that I may have missed the big picture.

The Kirs is intended as a pressurized tunnel that sits between a station and a visiting spacecraft. Crew transfers are generally rare occurrences and special events, and so large high-throughput hatches like the standard 812.5 mm Karmony ones might not be necessary - in fact, smaller FusTek hatches can already be found in the IACBM variant parachute-equipped docking port from my SDHI Service Module pack. Which brings us to this:

Fig 55 - FusTek Kirs Hatch Study (3)

The much smaller size of the hatch compared with the internal volume available inside Kirs means that rather than sliding rails, a simple swing arm mechanism would suffice - there's plenty of room up top, so the opened hatch will swing right out the way, leaving plenty of room for a Kerbal standing on a floor plate.

Despite repeated suggestions for a side-swinging hatch, I ultimately decided not to pursue that idea further. I prefer to think that, irrespective of gravity, if a Kerbal in the Kirs compartment needed to grab a gas sensor / gas mask / fuel hose / fire extinguisher, it's far more intuitive to grab one hanging from the side opposite to the main docking controls than one hanging from the ceiling.

A minor consequence of this would be tweaking the MODEL{} reference in the Kirs CFG to use a smaller-scale Karmony hatch model, which might leave a bit of a bare bulkhead exposed around the hatch area once an IACBM is installed over it, but I'm okay with that (besides, I don't want to design another IACBM variant specifically for the Kirs module).

I think that's enough yapping. Back to work!

[MainSailor]

Ideally, this is what I would have wanted, although as I've pointed out, it's a herculean task to design internal doorways in-game that can see right through to adjacent modules' IVA models.

I completely understand that. I was 'thinking out loud' so to speak.

No joy. I've consulted numerous videos myself, and they all slide and swing upwards. This is fine for the Karmony, but there simply isn't enough height to do the same in the Kirs.

Oh yeah...Pirs/Poisk use the Soyuz docking mechanism which when opened, is completely in the way:

Of course, I know you're modeling the hatches as straight up CBM clones, but as far as I'm aware there's no CBM hatches in a docking compartment that Kirs is an analogue of.

The Kirs is intended as a pressurized tunnel that sits between a station and a visiting spacecraft. Crew transfers are generally rare occurrences and special events, and so large high-throughput hatches like the standard 812.5 mm Karmony ones might not be necessary - in fact, smaller FusTek hatches can already be found in the IACBM variant parachute-equipped docking port from my SDHI Service Module pack. Which brings us to this:

The much smaller size of the hatch compared with the internal volume available inside Kirs means that rather than sliding rails, a simple swing arm mechanism would suffice - there's plenty of room up top, so the opened hatch will swing right out the way, leaving plenty of room for a Kerbal standing on a floor plate.

Seeing as how the hatches would be closed in the IVA, would you just be modelling the arm mechanism on the back of the hatch?

[sumghai]

Seeing as how the hatches would be closed in the IVA, would you just be modelling the arm mechanism on the back of the hatch?

Pretty much - I'm doing it for the sake of completeness.

[Starwaster]

Pretty much - I'm doing it for the sake of completeness.

Plus, someone from NASA might play the game. Can't have them going inside a Fustek module and saying, "Hey! They got that wrong!"

[sumghai]

Progress Report, 26 May 2014

After a brief detour knocking up some MM configs to add support for various plugins to FusTek, I'm back to working on IVAs.

My initial plan is to crudely block out each of the interior models - this would give me a good idea of the overall layout, as well as which objects (including structural elements like common bulkheads or panels) can be made into props in order to save memory via asset reuse.

First up is the Habitation module:

Fig 56 - (WIP) FusTek Karmony Hab Module - Internals

The layout is pretty much what I've envisioned, with a combined galley (eating/meeting) and exercise area at the front, and vertical sleep stations partitions by toilets/showers at the back. For clarity, I've omitted the viewport frames, which will end up as props.

Of the four Kerbals able to occupy the Habitation module, three of them would be gathered around the galley table area (that nominally seats four), whilst the fourth Kerbal would be tucked away inside one of the sleep stations in a sleeping bag.

Also note the updated Karmony hatch prop model, reworked as a result of discussions in preceding posts - I've faked the depth of the slot where the hatch would presumably slide up while in the open position, by having a texture that fades to black towards the top of the cavity.

[StEligius]

Got to love Sumghai's attention to detail! It's one of the reasons I check out the Dev. thread daily! Now if I'd get off my arse and learn 3D StudioMax, it works a bit different than the copy of AutoCad I used to use 10 years ago!

[nobodez]

Just read through the Dev Thread, and I must say, I'm really loving your work, and I'm really glad you're getting back into things. Might just have to update to 0.23.5 (and redo my add-ons of course) after being away for a few months.

[Deathsoul097]

Well sumghai, your parts are brilliant. (And I'm loving SippyFrog's texture pack, so much so that I overwrote the standard textures with it. No offence to you of course, I'm all praise, but those textures are just so good!) I thought I grabbed more pics, but apparently not, so just enjoy this beauty shot of the SoyJuice docked to the Kerbonational Space Station. (I made it a bit difficult for myself too, 28 degree inclination on the orbit, 250Km altitude, and I want to use a plugin to move my KSC to a -18 degree of inclination from the equator.) I plan on adding a LOT more to the station, and I think it will kill my dear laptop, but it will be worth it. I can't wait for the IVA's. They look awesome already.

This is the first crewed launch to the station, which is in the early stages of construction. Frankly, all that's up there is a utility module, a cupola, a hab, and many an ICBM.

[Railgunner2160]

Maybe for future reference we should refer to the berthing modules as I-CBM's, When I read your post there I thought for a moment you were going all Space Cowboys for a second there.......

[Starwaster]

Well sumghai, your parts are brilliant. (And I'm loving SippyFrog's texture pack, so much so that I overwrote the standard textures with it. No offence to you of course, I'm all praise, but those textures are just so good!) I thought I grabbed more pics, but apparently not, so just enjoy this beauty shot of the SoyJuice docked to the Kerbonational Space Station. (I made it a bit difficult for myself too, 28 degree inclination on the orbit, 250Km altitude, and I want to use a plugin to move my KSC to a -18 degree of inclination from the equator.) I plan on adding a LOT more to the station, and I think it will kill my dear laptop, but it will be worth it. I can't wait for the IVA's. They look awesome already.

http://i.imgur.com/oAIZQoa.png

This is the first crewed launch to the station, which is in the early stages of construction. Frankly, all that's up there is a utility module, a cupola, a hab, and many an ICBM.

Why does one of your portholes look shattered???

[TK421d]

Why does one of your portholes look shattered???

i think thats an rcs block right on top of it

[sumghai]

Progress Report, 30 May 2014

Blocking out of internals continue - first up is the Utilities module:

Fig 57 - (WIP) FusTek Karmony Util Module - Internals

The design is my personal amalgamation of the ISS USOS module aesthetic with the functional layout of the Mir DOS-7 core module - two workstations side-by-side and facing the forward hatch, with support equipment towards the back (PORT: Power Management 1, Power Management 2, Avionics; STBD: Communications, Life Support, Resource Recovery / Waste Processing). Coincidentally, it bears a striking resemblance to the Hab module layout.

One thing I've discovered is that module internals can actually be divided up into 550 x 1000 mm segments, if one disregards the bits at the end for utilities common to most modules (such as fire extinguishers, gas masks and life support control panels). This helps partition the ceiling, deck and wall panels into neat standardized partitions, which I would be able to replace with props to represent panel bases, drawers etc.

One minor consequence is that I would have to shift the viewports so that they would line up inside each of these partitions, which means I'll have to tweak the external models as well. Thankfully, this part won't be save-breaking.

Next, we have the Science module:

Fig 58 - (WIP) FusTek Karmony Sci Module - Internals

I had a great time blocking out this module, which was heavily inspired by the Destiny Laboratory on the real-life ISS. Although most science experiments in KSP are externally-mounted components, I've defined a processing lab with the following general-purpose facilities (mostly cosmetic and non-functional):

C

eiling (forward to aft)

• 
  [*=1]Self-contained Experiment Rack 1 - this and its counterparts consist of a series of modular drawers representing experiments, each with their own standard power / data / cooling interface.
  [*=1]Self-contained Experiment Rack 2
  [*=1]Self-contained Experiment Rack 3
  [*=1]General Science Storage Rack - storage for inactive experiments, notebooks, stationary etc.
  [*=1]Thermal Control - Ensures that all experiments, both inside the Science module and mounted externally outside the station, are operating within their designed temperature ranges.
  

Starboard

(forward to aft)

• Viewport
  -
  a Kerbal subject sits here for reasons to be explained shortly.
  
  
• Kerbal Research Facility / Health Monitoring
  - Based on the Destiny Lab's Human Research Facility, this science station allows Kerbals to study what effects long-term spaceflight has on Kerbal physiology. Note that this is not actually a sickbay or infirmary - I haven't decided whether to make a dedicated sickbay module, or just assume Kerbals get treated in the Hab module.
  
  
• Power Management
  - Provides regulated electrical power to the Science module and all supported experiments
  
  
• Robotics Workstation / Control Rack
  - Canadarm-style robot manipulators installed on the station can be remotely operated here, although technically speaking, this is considered a "backup" location; day-to-day operations involving robot arms are controlled from the Kupola.
  
  
• Viewport
  - a Kerbal would sit here typing up experimental results on a laptop
  
  

Deck (forward to aft)

• Avionics 1
  - strictly speaking, these are just heavy-duty computers with solid-state drives for processing / storing science data
  
  
• Avionics 2
  
  
• Avionics 3
  
  
• General Science Storage Rack
  
  
• Life Support
  - Environmental subsystem for the Science module
  
  

Port (forward to aft)

• Viewport
  - with a fridge to hold biological samples
  
  
• Life Sciences / Centrifuge
  - enables space-based studies of Kerbin's flora and fauna / spinning up biological fluid samples
  
  
• Glovebox
  - for handling potentially hazardous material acquired from EVA
  
  
• Materials Science
  - studies effects of microgravity and cosmic radiation on material properties, as well as space-based manufacturing. Not really a large-scale workshop of any kind.
  
  
• Viewport - Planetary Surface / Atmospheric Research station
  - a Kerbal would sit here with a laptop and a camera on a tripod
  
  

Again, I'll have to move the external viewports around a bit, but once again that won't be save-breaking.

Following on, we have the Kuest Airlock:

Fig 59 - (WIP) FusTek Kuest / Kuest Legacy Airlock - Internals

Both the Kuest and the Kuest Legacy Airlocks actually consist of two compartments - a suit storage / staging area where Kerbals get suited up, and a lockout chamber that actually gets depressurized/re-pressurized at the start/end of EVAs. Since the lockout chamber itself isn't really that interesting, I've decided to only model the staging area half of the internal, where the Kerbal will actually sit in prior to EVA.

EVA Suits are stored in lockers on either side of the module, while the ceiling contains drawers for crew provisions (since TAC Life Support requires Kerbals to take some with them on EVA). Originally, I wanted to put actual EVA suits models in the alcoves, but I abandoned that idea for a number of reasons:

- I have no idea how to extract the Kerbal EVA suit model (textures I can do, just not models)

- For those of us using TextureReplacer, the suits are obviously going to be different

- It's a nice-to-have but not critical

Finally, we have the reworked Kirs Docking Module:

Fig 60 - (WIP) FusTek Kirs Docking Module - Internals (3)

This should be mostly self-explanatory, apart from the hatches swinging upwards rather than sliding sideways.

My intention is to add a JSI camera transform to the Kirs external model, for use with the RPM monitor at the docking control station. Since animated props are also possible with JSI, I may add a collapsable centerline camera inside the Kirs to represent the actual docking camera, just like the one that was installed in the Mir Docking Module.

Needless to say, the last internal model I'll need to block out before starting work on props is that of the Kupola - this would be a "crow's nest" for a space station / planetary outpost, with seating for three Kerbals.

I originally envisioned that, due to the large windows on the Kupola, I should probably make the Kerbals sitting inside visible from the outside. This would require something similar to the sfr Command Pod plugin, which I'm currently evaluating for compatibility with 0.23.5 - the last time I tried it, it did nasty things to the Toolbar and borked CLS/Ship Manifest. If successful, I may also make the viewports on most of the other crew modules see-through, although this would require some significant rework of the external models.

We'll see.

EDIT: The only third party add-on I'm aware of that uses the sfr plugin (besides the official sfr pods) is Alskari's Hollow Structures and Hulls. According to a number of posts such as this one, the sfr plugin is fraught with various problems:

- If you have more than one crew pod using the sfr plugin, the IVAs will not be rendered properly (i.e. wrong orientation)

- The pod with the sfr plugin MUST be where the vessel / station is controlled from. Obviously, this isn't ideal, given that the FusTek Kupola is not designed to have control authority.

Looks like someone may need to write an alternative plugin.

Edited May 30, 2014 by sumghai
Extra info regarding potential sfr plugin integration

[Starwaster]

i think thats an rcs block right on top of it

Right, right! And when the RCS fired, it got really hot and the alternate heating and cooling of the glass cracked. I see......

Oh, nice progress report Sumghai!

[Deathsoul097]

Why does one of your portholes look shattered???

Lol, that's a TKS RCS block from KOSMOS. Part count is pretty hard-hitting on my machine, so I have to use as few parts as possible, which occasionally mean placing RCS is less than optimal places for aesthetics. (Such as on top of the port hole, on this occasion.) Speaking of that station, it has some more stuff on it now. I'll see about posting another pic in an hour or so, when I get the chance to play.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Deathsoul097

[Starwaster]

Lol, that's a TKS RCS block from KOSMOS. Part count is pretty hard-hitting on my machine, so I have to use as few parts as possible, which occasionally mean placing RCS is less than optimal places for aesthetics. (Such as on top of the port hole, on this occasion.) Speaking of that station, it has some more stuff on it now. I'll see about posting another pic in an hour or so, when I get the chance to play.

Hmmm, you know there's a mod out there (KSPX maybe? Or some stock alike mod...?) that has 45 degree angled RCS nozzles. Sounds like that would have let you place it away from the porthole

[leops1984]

Hmmm, you know there's a mod out there (KSPX maybe? Or some stock alike mod...?) that has 45 degree angled RCS nozzles. Sounds like that would have let you place it away from the porthole

I think KW Rocketry has those as well.

[sumghai]

Hmmm, you know there's a mod out there (KSPX maybe? Or some stock alike mod...?) that has 45 degree angled RCS nozzles. Sounds like that would have let you place it away from the porthole

I think KW Rocketry has those as well.

RLA Stockalike has 45 degree RCS blocks.