Duna Permanent Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge

[Death Engineering]

It annoys me that I could almost launch another payload before the next window, I'm only off by 8 days.

Agree with borisperrons.. 8 days is still in the window. I sent a mission to Duna on day 91 by boosting the payload out most of the way to Duna, but not all way. By mid-course correction time, the craft had pretty much caught up to Duna's transfer window and required just a short burn to push the orbit out the rest of way. It was a long trip, however! Over 100 days if I recall.. have to check my spreadsheet.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-elliptic_transfer

Edit: The launch left Kerbin on day 91 and arrived in Duna orbit on day 196 = 105 days

Edited November 20, 2013 by Death Engineering

[Weegee]

Agree with borisperrons.. 8 days is still in the window. I sent a mission to Duna on day 91 by boosting the payload out most of the way to Duna, but not all way. By mid-course correction time, the craft had pretty much caught up to Duna's transfer window and required just a short burn to push the orbit out the rest of way. It was a long trip, however! Over 100 days if I recall.. have to check my spreadsheet.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-elliptic_transfer

Fair enough. I didn't really have much that could be sent to Duna with one launch anyway, so I'm gonna send a batch of probes. I was planning on synchronous probes, but unless I can get it 100% perfect I will eventually get captured by Ike. I'll probably put them in semi-synchronous orbit, so the base has near a un-interupted comm link, and the probes won't be knocked around by Ike.

[Death Engineering]

Good idea to stay away from 'Ike the Impertinent'.

[Speeding Mullet]

Off topic Death Engineering but given your penchant for complex challenges can you recommend one that I might try next? I'm thinking about keeping my game stock now I've upgraded but there's so much I miss about decent mods that I had previously installed, so stock or mod challenge suggestions would be welcome.

I'm developing a stock vtol multi-planet capable shuttlecraft but it really is insanely complex!

[Death Engineering]

Off topic Death Engineering but given your penchant for complex challenges can you recommend one that I might try next? I'm thinking about keeping my game stock now I've upgraded but there's so much I miss about decent mods that I had previously installed, so stock or mod challenge suggestions would be welcome.

I'm developing a stock vtol multi-planet capable shuttlecraft but it really is insanely complex!

It's interesting you asked.. I've been thinking about The Amazing Race 2.0. I've been pretty much waiting until I had more experience with both building and doing interplanetary transfers to some of the more "exotic" locales.

I wonder if the persistent file is 0.22 friendly..

[Speeding Mullet]

I've been pretty much waiting until I had more experience with both building and doing interplanetary transfers to some of the more "exotic" locales.

Looks like an interesting challenge but ditto really - I've only really got extensive experience landing on Duna. I've been to a few other bodies but only really in huge rocket no point mode. I thought halfway through my Duna mission that I should keep doing focused missions and reckoned that Laythe was a reasonable target, but I don't think I'm ready for the grand tour yet!

[Weegee]

I'm at a dilemma. My ship carrying kerbals (which I haven't posted -- I'm trying to land my batch of things on Duna first.) is in a very tight situation. I've tried aerobraking, but I can't get low enough to stop without having lots of re-entry effects. And because my periapsis likes changing drastically from the prediction when I enter Duna's SOI, I'm quicksaved in Duna's SOI and don't have enough fuel to correct, so I'm coming in fairly fast over the south ice cap. This is nowhere near an ideal landing zone, but I'll probably have to land there and move things over (good thing only one rover is landed).

However, I probably don't have enough fuel to land without breaking at least one rule (gasp). Unless I dump the tug and use the landing engines, I'm going to be moving a lot of dead weight, and will make landing very impractical. But, it have nuclear engines so I can't dispose it in the atmosphere, and I don't have enough fuel to toss it above the atmosphere then come back in to land. And if I do keep the tug on (and possibly even if I let it burn up) I'm sure there is absolutely NO way to land without getting at least some re-entry effects.

So, my only solution that doesn't break rules I can come up with is to raise out of the atmosphere, and escape Duna, then send a rescue vehicle to (at least) return to Kerbin, but this will be a huge setback. I'mr eally at a loss here, so any help is much appreciated. If you guys need pictures, I can scrounge up some.

[Death Engineering]

I'm at a dilemma.

Have you tried coming in around 14km alt over Duna, just enough to aerocapture? If you can do that without getting re-entry effects and into at least any orbit, no matter how elliptical, then do repeated aerobrake orbits until your Ap is low enough.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Death Engineering

[Weegee]

Have you tried coming in around 14km alt over Duna, just enough to aerocapture? If you can do that without getting re-entry effects and into at least any orbit, no matter how elliptical, then do repeated aerobrake orbits until your Ap is low enough.

I came in at 14k, got re-entry effects and wasn't even close to aerocapture. I can't seem to get below 17k without "burning up". Here's some pictures, tell me if more info is needed.

Vessel's current state. I really wouldn't trust the delta-v calculation, it gets iffy with docked things, especially with multiple engines. The lander on top has aerospikes and LVNs because it was supposed to descend and ascend with aerospikes then circularize with LVNs. Not really sure how I have such little fuel.

Current path through Duna's SOI

Edited November 22, 2013 by Weegee

[Death Engineering]

Well, that is a problem then..

If you could get close enough to Kerbin you could use that Clampo-Sr. to dock a heat shield to it. That would count in your launches, so maybe send up your next mission fitted with a heat shield on one end and a Clampo-Sr. on the other with the intent of doing a deep space rendezvous and docking to your lander. One heat shield for both missions.

[Weegee]

Well, that is a problem then..

If you could get close enough to Kerbin you could use that Clampo-Sr. to dock a heat shield to it. That would count in your launches, so maybe send up your next mission fitted with a heat shield on one end and a Clampo-Sr. on the other with the intent of doing a deep space rendezvous and docking to your lander. One heat shield for both missions.

Yeah... This will take quite a bit of juggling. They have 82 days of supplies, because I was landing a bunch on the other ship

This seems like my only option though. I don't think I can add anything of much use with the weight of the heat shield. I might just send another supply tank so I don't have to launch one later. But there is still the question of getting there in time. The post says the pods have 10 days worth of short term supplies, I might have them "use" them if I run out, and supposedly replace them with the thing I launch. In any case, this will be very interesting. This challenge has had a lot of first for me (docking, fleets of ships, attempt to make a Duna base, sending kerbals to Duna), why not one more: Interplanetary docking!

[Icycrysis]

Looks like fun. Think I will give it a try...

[Weegee]

(Long story short, that crew wasn't coming back. Now, here's my attempt of an excuse.)

Elming Kerman awoke with a start, in a cold sweat. "This bed is far too nice for a hab module..." He thought. That's when it hit him. Project Irata wasn't due to start for a long time. He wasn't in space, in a vessel out of fuel circling the Sun with diminishing supplies, he was in his bed in the astronaut complex back on Kerbin.

"Get yourself together, Elming. You were just announced mission commander yesterday and you're already thinking of everything that could possibly go wrong." He muttered to himself. Suddenly, Elming's door burst open and Donner Kerman nearly lept through the door. Donner then said "Rise and shine, Elming! The early kerbal gets the rocket! ...Or something!" almost more enthusiastically than kerbally possible. "Oh right, and of course my flight engineer is Donner... Of course. I'll have to get used to him I guess." Elming thought to himself.

"Mitzer and Hadfurt are already down at the training center waiting for you! Cmon!" Donner was fresh out of flight school, and had just enrolled into the space program. No one really had any idea why he was chosen, his only notable attribute was his complete and utter enthusiasm. Or at least if there was anything else, it was drowned out. Elming, however, was a fairly seasoned kerbonaut who had spent time on space stations and was part of a Kethane operation for a time. It's not that he's a grouch, he just focuses on the task at hand and is fairly easily annoyed.

"Oh Kod why..." Elming thought as he crawled out of bed. "Our first day of training for Project Irata! Aren't you excited?" Donner exclaimed. "You have no idea..." Elming muttered. "Well, I'll see you down there!" Donner said before excitedly running out of the room. "Why... Why him? I would've taken ANYONE but him... I'd even put up with Jebediah and his crazy antics... Too bad "The Trio" retired..." He thought.

Project Irata is a very ambitious endeavor, nothing this groundbreaking has happened since the first Mun landings. That was a long time ago, but lack of funding and other political nonsense had slowed the progress of the space program. All that had happened since was some stations and kethane operations in the Kerbin system, and some probes around Duna, Eve and Jool. Project Irata's aim was to prove that there was still much to be learned in outer space. The heads of the space program hope to accomplish this by studying many different places of Duna, and Ike. To help facilitate this, two kerbal scientists, Mitzer and Hadfurt, were also being trained for space operations.

(And there's my excuse I might continue with this form of reporting, as it's again something new, but I won't be going much into training and the like. I'll see where this goes I guess. I'm actually kind of glad that I'm restarting, as I probably could do things a bit better, and probably could use a slightly better launcher [more like 20 tons instead of 18]. But as always, stay tuned!)

[borisperrons]

Elming Kerman awoke with a start, in a cold sweat.

Ah ah ah ah!!!! Well sir, that's a pretty darn good way to save the day!!!

[theBlind]

+++ Start Press release +++

We here at theBlind optikal systems and space operations would like to announce that we would like to announce our upcoming participation in this worthy endeavor to reach for Duna and expand the scientific knowledge of all kerbalkind with our very own manned permanent Duna dependency.

+++ End Press release+++

+++ For public dissemination+++

[Weegee]

Ah ah ah ah!!!! Well sir, that's a pretty darn good way to save the day!!!

Thanks!

I felt like it was kinda a cheap way out, but I didn't want to lose those poor kerbals

[Weegee]

I've decided to go on with writing up a story type thing, so I've made a thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59303-Project-Irata-Duna-Outpost-Mission-Pic-Heavy.

All that's there so far is a slightly modified version of what I posted here, but I will be posting the rest of my attempt there.

[sturmstiger]

Wow! It's amazing to see the challenge still going strong, with month-long projects getting completed, new people joining and even 2nd tries.

I've been busy with RL and have been away from the exciting world of little green men and burning rocket fuel for the last few months, but otherwise I've been doing quite well. I'm really sorry for causing some concerns about my well-being due to my inactivity. Also a big THANK YOU for the "old-timers" of the challenge (ThreeMartiniLaunch, Death Engineering, Speeding Mullet, meyst, Patupi, etc) for care-taking the challenge and answering questions during my absence.

I've updated the scoreboard. I probably missed a few things so if you believe your entry is missing / outdated on the scoreboard let me know. I'll try checking back and updating it at least once a week. But obviously for most people doing the challenge the scores / rankings do not matter that much - everyone has his own takes on the relative importance of realism, efficiency & aesthetics. And most importantly, most people seemed to be having fun with the challenge

Edited November 23, 2013 by sturmstiger

[Death Engineering]

Wow! It's amazing to see the challenge still going strong, with month-long projects getting completed, new people joining and even 2nd tries.

Hey sturmstiger, welcome back!

[meyst]

Good to hear you are doing well well Sturmstiger

[Speeding Mullet]

Welcome back from RL and thanks for updating the thread!

[Kelmoir]

Hi, I would like to participate, but for the actual mods sticking me to the challenge, I got 2 Questions:

The TAC life support parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-22-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-5-17Nov) do really enforce the supply thing. But they are superior to the Vanilla tank solution.

And They can even recycle water and Oxygen, with energy input. Will that be fine for the challenge, or are they considered to be to powerful?

For the Challenge I would dismiss the recycling part, though.

If I use deadly re-entry, will any craft, that survives an re-entry/aero-brake be valid (unedited parts, of course!)? Because half shielded engines can survive an re-entry with standard parameters...

Thanks in advance .

[Weegee]

Hi, I would like to participate, but for the actual mods sticking me to the challenge, I got 2 Questions:

The TAC life support parts (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-22-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-5-17Nov) do really enforce the supply thing. But they are superior to the Vanilla tank solution.

And They can even recycle water and Oxygen, with energy input. Will that be fine for the challenge, or are they considered to be to powerful?

For the Challenge I would dismiss the recycling part, though.

If I use deadly re-entry, will any craft, that survives an re-entry/aero-brake be valid (unedited parts, of course!)? Because half shielded engines can survive an re-entry with standard parameters...

Thanks in advance .

Well, it says that life support and deadly reentry negate Rule 5, 7 & 8, so I would think so. I could be wrong, but that should be fine.

Anyway, I've just updated my attempt. The link is in my signature.

[borisperrons]

Will that be fine for the challenge, or are they considered to be to powerful?

I agree with Weegee: engine bells are built to with stand very stressful situations, so i guess they will be able to survive a re-enter, although if only half shielded.

Also, Tac life support is pretty good, and avoiding the recicle part adds to the realism: today, we don't have a practical close circuit recycling sistem (ISS relies on supply launches for life support) so for me your approach is totally fine.

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

Id like to partapate. Just need to design a light rocket..