Jumper seats have no torque - how to control small ships without that torque?

[alex the killa]

It's tough!

[Jason Patterson]

You're stuck with other control options - thrust vectoring, RCS, or installing a secondary command module (like a probe module or two.) There's not much else you can do. It's not really meant to be a pilot's seat for a rocket; it's a rover driver's seat.

[lobsterbark]

Also, what's your issue with extremely brief, and uninformative posts?

[alex the killa]

I'm trying for simple answers to relatively simple questions, apologies for wasting the unlimited space that is the forums with literally two topics lobsterbark. I stated my problem (no torque), and asked how to control it hoping that there was a lightweight solution. The only one being to add more probe cores. Thanks Jason for the answer =)

[numerobis]

This question sounds reasonable to me. And Jason's answer is most of it as far as I know. He forgot aerodynamics and SAS modules (for eliminating roll).

EndlessWaves worked on an improved thrust vectoring system, but I never tried it out. Thrust vectoring rocket-wide should be able to control your roll and verniers above the center of mass should be usable, but are deleterious at the moment.

[Finnerty]

Also, what's your issue with extremely brief, and uninformative posts?

The entire question about the problem is right there in the title. Needs more control than just a seat.

[Epic DaVinci]

It's not really meant to be a pilot's seat for a rocket.

HAHA, this is the KSP community! if it can be strapped to an SRB, it WILL GET strapped to an SRB!

[magnemoe]

Add an probe core, the give enough torque for small rockets and let you use it without crew,

[Crush]

SAS modules (but not ASAS) also add rotation torque. Much more than probe cores, by the way. Even when taking the mass into account.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Crush

[maltesh]

SAS modules (but not ASAS) also add rotation torque. Much more than probe cores, by the way. Even when taking the mass into account.

SAS modules do not help you start rotating, they can only help you stop rotating.

[Jason Patterson]

SAS modules (but not ASAS) also add rotation torque. Much more than probe cores, by the way. Even when taking the mass into account.

Maltesh is spot on; it's only the parts that include a rotPower variable that can start a rotation. Does it make sense? Heck no.

[birrhan]

You're stuck with other control options - thrust vectoring, RCS, or installing a secondary command module (like a probe module or two.) There's not much else you can do. It's not really meant to be a pilot's seat for a rocket; it's a rover driver's seat.

What it's meant for and what it's used for are two different things: there seems to be a fair number of exploits using seats to minimize lander payload size. Adding in a module with torque--a lander can, for example--would fix your problem, but then you wouldn't need seats.

[artao]

SAS modules do not help you start rotating, they can only help you stop rotating.

Maltesh is spot on; it's only the parts that include a rotPower variable that can start a rotation. Does it make sense? Heck no.

SAS modules DO add rotational torque. The more you add, the more force you get. I keep seeing people say SAS has no force of it's own, when they in fact DO. Must end this silliness.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/S.A.S._Module

[Eric S]

SAS modules DO add rotational torque. The more you add, the more force you get. I keep seeing people say SAS has no force of it's own, when they in fact DO. Must end this silliness.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/S.A.S._Module

You're misinterpreting the wiki page. The torque that SAS applies is only used to stop the craft from spinning. To quote the wiki page:

"Whatever you choose to call it, it makes the ship stop spinning around."

I'm not sure how many other people have tested it, but I have actually tested it, and I know I'm not the only one. SAS modules will make you stop spinning faster, but if you need to change your heading, they do not help.

Anyone that says that SAS has no force of it's own is wrong, but that's not what maltesh and Jason are saying. The point we're making is that the force that SAS has can only be used to do one thing, and that's to stop the craft from spinning. If you actually want the craft to turn, SAS will not help.

Edit: At one time, SAS acted like you think it does. It no longer does, and hasn't since... 0.17? Maybe earlier.

[stibbons]

You're misinterpreting the wiki page. The torque that SAS applies is only used to stop the craft from spinning. To quote the wiki page:

Or, to quote the other wiki page at http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/SAS

SAS units exert torque to stop vessel rotation. This torque is not available to the command unit for control authority, and is only active when the unit is turned on.

However, the SAS page also claims that ASAS has a small amount of torque available under pilot control. I haven't tried to verify this yet.

[artao]

After discussion on IRC last night I did do some extensive testing of this. SAS definitely definitely helps stop rotation. It seemed to me that it helped even when SAS was turned off. With SAS turned on it was even harder to initiate any rotation, but it also stopped VERY quickly.

There was, indeed, apparently no difference between ships (with and without SAS, otherwise identical . probe core, battery, fuel tank, engine) as far as initiating rotation while SAS was off.

Some have said SAS is useless, but that is far from true. It definitely helps maintain control, as well as launch stability.

..

can someone link me to statements by the devs as to when/why SAS rotational initiation forces were removed please? thanks

[copy of my post in another thread re: rotational torque]