[0.20] Deadly Reentry 2.3 - reentry heat, plus thermal and g-force damage to parts

[toril]

Who's got a working space plane? A lot of people in fact. If you consider SSTO's as space planes, we have the Space Shuttle, Buran, SpaceShipOne, SpaceShipTwo and a few others.

As for 1Km/s, the Blackbird doesn't go even close to that, even though it holds the speed record for both altitude and fastest manned air breathing aircraft, with a speed of ~980.44 ms.

The North American X-15 is the fastest manned plane, with a top speed of 2 Km/s, but it uses rocket engines.

There's also NASA's X-43A scramjet, that achieves speeds of a little above 3 Km/s, but they are unmanned.

actually of all the planes you named only 2 are ssto's buran and space shuttle none of the others can achieve orbital velocity {and altitude to maintain said velocity after engine shutdown the scramjet can achieve orbital velocity just not the altitude it runs out of air} ssto stands for single stage to orbit. and arguments can be made that neither the shuttle or buran are true ssto's either as they stage boosters before orbit is achieved. Also the buran was never launched into orbit as far as i know? only drops from a large jet to test descent. space ship's one and two are suborbital ballistic flights only not nearly enough fuel to achieve orbit witch is why they don't need to worry about reentry they aren't going nearly fast enough and never gain anywhere near enough velocity thanks to the huge air brake they deploy at the top of their trajectory

[rifter]

It also makes impossible for you to orbit using SSTO's because they'll explode if you go above 1 Km/s when crossing the edge of atmosphere.

What sort of SSTOs are you using? I can easily get well over 1000 m/s in atmosphere (around 22-23km) without anything exploding, and then move up to around 30-36km for the last 1000-1500 of acceleration, where there are barely any re-entry effects. I mean, if I switched to rockets around 20km to try to reach the ~2000m/s necessary for raising my periapsis, I could maybe see enough heat buildup to cause explosions.

[ialdabaoth]

What sort of SSTOs are you using? I can easily get well over 1000 m/s in atmosphere (around 22-23km) without anything exploding, and then move up to around 30-36km for the last 1000-1500 of acceleration, where there are barely any re-entry effects. I mean, if I switched to rockets around 20km to try to reach the ~2000m/s necessary for raising my periapsis, I could maybe see enough heat buildup to cause explosions.

Seconded - there is simply no way that velocities below 2000 m/s can cause a fire or explosion. The reason for this is simple: The shockwave temperature is equal to your airspeed velocity - 275. Since almost every part has a maxTemp of 1700 or higher, and damage doesn't start until around 85% of that, you have to be going at LEAST (1700*.85 + 275) = 1720 m/s in order to be in any danger of heat-related catastrophe.

Also, spaceplanes do NOT have ablative shielding. They have passive thermal shielding. This means that keeping your belly to the wind (even slightly) will reduce the rate of heat exchange between the shockwave and the shielded part. The only things that have ablative shielding are the mk1 pod, and the heat shields included with the mod.

[CaptainArbitrary]

Who's got a working space plane? A lot of people in fact. If you consider SSTO's as space planes, we have the Space Shuttle, Buran, SpaceShipOne, SpaceShipTwo and a few others.

Okay, let's be a little fair here. The Shuttle and Buran were essentially the same thing, and neither was a "space plane" in any meaningful sense nor a single-stage-to-orbit vehicle. Buran (the one time it flew) went up on a two-stage Energia lifter, and the Shuttle was a traditional stage-and-a-half design used for manned flight since Project Mercury. Both went up like rockets, attaining altitude through thrust and not (insignificantly) through lift.

The two Virgin Galactic things are suborbital, so they can't reasonably be said to count either …*and they're also not single-stage anythings, since both are ferried to altitude.

If we're gonna use the term "space plane" in any meaningful way at all, we really need to agree on what it means. In this context  talking about reentry  it's obvious that it has to mean an orbital vehicle, since descending from high altitude but at suborbital speeds doesn't really count as reentry at all in this sense.

[Festivefire]

actually of all the planes you named only 2 are ssto's buran and space shuttle none of the others can achieve orbital velocity {and altitude to maintain said velocity after engine shutdown the scramjet can achieve orbital velocity just not the altitude it runs out of air} ssto stands for single stage to orbit. and arguments can be made that neither the shuttle or buran are true ssto's either as they stage boosters before orbit is achieved. Also the buran was never launched into orbit as far as i know? only drops from a large jet to test descent. space ship's one and two are suborbital ballistic flights only not nearly enough fuel to achieve orbit witch is why they don't need to worry about reentry they aren't going nearly fast enough and never gain anywhere near enough velocity thanks to the huge air brake they deploy at the top of their trajectory

those two arn't even ssto, they have external tanks and boosters that are jettisoned, making them multi stage

[ialdabaoth]

Indeed; I think the first actual SSTO design that might actually work is the SABRE-powered Skylon.

[mrnicholas]

I am finding that my mk 1-2 command pod with the head shield isn't aero-braking enough in the atmosphere. from a 15okm apo and 0km per my pod it hitting the ground at just under 900 m/s. (the shoot over G the second I try opening then at 5km because it was going at stupidly high speeds.

Is this just happening at my end or is there a way I can aero brake more?

[Festivefire]

I am finding that my mk 1-2 command pod with the head shield isn't aero-braking enough in the atmosphere. from a 15okm apo and 0km per my pod it hitting the ground at just under 900 m/s. (the shoot over G the second I try opening then at 5km because it was going at stupidly high speeds.

Is this just happening at my end or is there a way I can aero brake more?

try deploying drouges as soon as the heat dies down, and deploying your main shoots when your down to 200.

[ialdabaoth]

Here is my usual strategy for reentry:

1. At apoapsis, I lower my periapsis to 20 km.

2. When my altitude drops to 36 km, I blow all decouplers, then rotate my pod so that the heat shield is facing into the shockwave.

3. Watch Bob and Bill start screaming and Jeb start cackling.

4. As soon as my velocity drops below 1000 m/s, I open my drogue chutes.

5. As soon as my velocity drops below 250 m/s, I open my main chutes.

I will usually sustain some minor G-force damage at step 5, but nothing that isn't survivable.

[mrnicholas]

I've managed the hide a drogue behind the covered docking port and have started deploying that after the re-entry effects have stopped, thanks for the help

[soranno]

duuuude seriously, the sounds~ turn down the sounds! I have the game at 2% volume and can just barely hear my rockets firing.. but when g forces start to climb on something I swear every house on the street can hear it.

Additionally, anyone else experiencing a bug where things randomly overheat and explode on the launchpad? Immediately after going to the pad.. just boom

used to be it was just probe cores, would spontaneously explode 40% of the time, but now it is more or less the entire rocket

EDIT: oh, I forgot to say how much I hate this plugin for making life in kerbal so difficult, and also awesome and challenging.

You rock! carry on sir

EDIT EDIT: The problem has now extended itself to switching to a ship from the tracking station. A ship in stable orbit, switched too, suddenly decideds that everything should overheat and explode.. except for the pod, engine, and engineer unit, all of which were left floating in space.

This is only slightly totally game breaking.. and so I hope the source of the issue can be located very soon.

Edited June 30, 2013 by soranno

[Retsof]

Here, have a thing. Decided to put it in this one as it is more focused on reentry than it is FAR.

[MR4Y]

Here, have a thing. Decided to put it in this one as it is more focused on reentry than it is FAR.

Good. Now do a scramjet, XD.

[Retsof]

Good. Now do a scramjet, XD.

*shrug* The B9 SABREs are close, and with the other engines too it has enough power that I could probably overheat it without making orbit.

[foamyesque]

EDIT EDIT: The problem has now extended itself to switching to a ship from the tracking station. A ship in stable orbit, switched too, suddenly decideds that everything should overheat and explode.. except for the pod, engine, and engineer unit, all of which were left floating in space.

This is only slightly totally game breaking.. and so I hope the source of the issue can be located very soon.

Possibly related: When using Hyperedit's "Land" function, every part immediately goes "g-force exceeded" and explodes. Possibly some kind of invulnerability frames on scene load would be good?

[MR4Y]

I was having strange issues while recording my LP of KSP with this mod on, including strange sounds as I was attaching parts on the VAB. Also, we need shielding for planes.

[Festivefire]

Possibly related: When using Hyperedit's "Land" function, every part immediately goes "g-force exceeded" and explodes. Possibly some kind of invulnerability frames on scene load would be good?

I used to have this problem several ksp versions back, but i use hyperedit now when testing warships, and i haven't had anything spontaneously explode in a while. try pausing on vessel unpack in the alt f12 menu before you hyperedit anywhere, then turn it off to resume.

[cxg2827]

just installed DR 2.3, and now the game is hanging up on squad/spaces/podcockpit/model when i try to load it.

also running:

FAR

RemoteTech

Romfarer Lazor Docking cam

B9

anyone ever get this issue?

[MR4Y]

just installed DR 2.3, and now the game is hanging up on squad/spaces/podcockpit/model when i try to load it.

also running:

FAR

RemoteTech

Romfarer Lazor Docking cam

B9

anyone ever get this issue?

I use all those mods together and never had this issue.

[ialdabaoth]

Also, we need shielding for planes.

I thought planes were shielded?

[cxg2827]

I use all those mods together and never had this issue.

just reinstalled ksp and the mods. Works now

[Black-Talon]

Here, have a thing. Decided to put it in this one as it is more focused on reentry than it is FAR.

Beautifully done!

[Festivefire]

I thought planes were shielded?

the stock pieces have shielding on the bottom, but the issue with that is that its really hard to regain control after re-entry using that flight profile.

[Retsof]

Beautifully done!

I thought planes were shielded?

They are. In my vid I was deliberately entering at too steep of an angle. I do a proper entry at the end.

[soranno]

about the heat shields and such.. em.. if you could spare a couple of minutes to view these short videos.. and tell me this is how it`s supposed to be..

http://www.twitch.tv/hoshizora/c/2505466

In this video the pod is in freefall after aborting a launch, the highest speed it reaches is about 940m/s, and the temperature you can see on screen as it catches fire and explodes.. the pod has an additional 1.25m heat shield on its underside, yet the ablative heat shield in this case doesn`t drop from 500 at any time.. other than the fraction of a second between the two explosions.

EDIT: and looking at the video myself just now, the flight report seems to say that the heat shield first exploded due to excessive g-force.. my confusion only grows as you can clearly see the gforce meter never rises above 4g

http://www.twitch.tv/hoshizora/c/2505494

in this second video, we have a ship that lost electric power while aerobraking for decent (thank you ioncross) and I left it to fall to kerbin and let what happens happen.. but I didn`t expect this. The pod has an additional 1,25m heatshield on its underside and so the heat shield value is at 500. In past version of deadly reentry there can be no question a heat shielded pod would have come through this without any issue. The heat shield numbers are of particular interest, as the first heat shield disappears after dropping to 498, and the pod itself explodes after the shield drops to 248..

Edited July 1, 2013 by soranno