Mars Beyond Human Landing Achievement?

[NeoMorph]

Well according to the Curiosity rover it is... Perhaps it's jealous and doesn't want the competition.

Rover radiation data poses manned Mars mission dilemma

[Dictator Dan]

Economically? Yes. Practically? No.

To shield the crew, tanks of water/metal plating could be used around the crewed sections of a ship, but all of that is very heavy, as for surface radiation, covering the landed sections with dirt is a great way to cut down radiation, and protect if from wind born particles that erode stuff like sandpaper. However, all of those things add greatly to the already substantial cost of a mission, all for very little return, as robotic exploration has been very fruitful, and will likely lead to sample return missions. Robotic missions are also a fraction of the cost, allowing several to be mounted for the price of a manned mission, meaning either more sites can be visited using a similar robot, like Spirit and Opportunity, or be a specialized mission like Phoenix.

TL;DR that level of radiation wont stop humans, although it would complicate things, rather other factors are stopping us.

[NeoMorph]

To be honest, taking big tanks of water is a GOOD idea (one I knew of already). They could use the water at the end of the journey. But there is one problem... coming back. No way of launching water to orbit at Mars so it would be one way or they would have problems with cancer, eyesight (yeah, shocked me too) and even would affect their cognitive functions. Cosmic radiation is a bitch, let alone solar radiation that they would be running into on the way back.

I think that until we either get faster craft or we get better cancer drugs and/or shielding tech we won't be going to Mars.

In the meantime, I wonder if someone will write a Radiation Exposure mod for KSP. Would be an eye opener I think.

[Dictator Dan]

You keep the water, and most of the vessel in space around Mars, only a small hab module would go down, as the Martian surface aint exactly welcoming, so a small bulldozer could easily cover a large portion of it with dirt, further reducing radiation.

Seeing as they would need only a fraction of their water supply to be on the surface with them, it would make to sense to send it all down, plus Mars does have a thin atmosphere which would help cut radiation as well.

As for the eyesight stuff, some of the astronauts that went to the moon reported seeing bright blue flashes with their eyes closed, NASA thinks it was caused by cosmic rays passing through the optic nerve. I cant recall if it was passing through the Van Allen belts, or afterwards.

I cant imagine that. 'Uhhhh, guys I think Im going space crazy. Im seeing bright blue flashes with my eyes closed...'

'YOU TOO?! I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME!'

[NeoMorph]

Regarding the light flashes... that is part of the cone area getting destroyed, ie the part that is responsible for the sharpest of our vision. Short duration flights would be okay but for longer duration flights could be a problem.

http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/experiment/exper.aspx?exp_index=44

[redwolfy]

you could send down robots to build underground hab module in a previous flight and then all you would need to send the crew down in would a capsule

the main human flight could go up into space (from earth) in two goes one ,carrying a inflatable ship and the other to fill it with water this was you could fit alot bigger ship in less launches

[Rage097]

I believe that Mars is within our grasp entirely. Humans landing anywhere further out? Not within our lifetimes

[redwolfy]

i will be............. IMMORTAL so yes it wiil be

[twelveways]

Possibly a stupid question but couldn't you collect water from clouds during ascent?

Space planes with cloudscoops would make regular trips to an orbiting module where they would offload the h2o in large tanks which could be towed by an interplanetary craft quite easily when full.

the first thing they would need to do though, is to send up a giant robotic drill that could dig us a nice hole to live in. The drill would obviously be self capping.

[EatThePath]

Possibly a stupid question but couldn't you collect water from clouds during ascent?

The amount of cloud you'd have to scoop to get a useful amount of water is pretty impractically massive, and while you're in the clouds you've still got most of the work of getting to mars(or even just earth orbit) ahead of you so it wouldn't gain you much anyway.

[Sempiternal]

2 words -

Rad-X

Rad-Away

[OtherDalfite]

2 words -

Rad-X

Rad-Away

I don't think radiation works the way you think it does.

[The Jedi Master]

Who's to say the suits and ship can't be shielded?

[OtherDalfite]

Who's to say the suits and ship can't be shielded?

Gravity mostly. To be radiation shielded, you need a dense element. Dense elements are very hard to lift off the Earth without being extremely costly. I think we're better off with speed for now until we start actually settling which I don't think will be any time soon.

[The Jedi Master]

Gravity mostly. To be radiation shielded, you need a dense element. Dense elements are very hard to lift off the Earth without being extremely costly. I think we're better off with speed for now until we start actually settling which I don't think will be any time soon.

Well, in that case, I guess Mars One is pretty much doomed, huh?

[Kilmeister]

Not really. They already know it's a one way trip. The time on the planet is just gonna be shorter than previously anticipated.

[The Jedi Master]

Not really. They already know it's a one way trip. The time on the planet is just gonna be shorter than previously anticipated.

I thought it was GETTING BACK with speed... I don't see how GOING THERE with speed would help.

[OtherDalfite]

Well, in that case, I guess Mars One is pretty much doomed, huh?

If you ask me, Mars One is a pipe dream. I'm almost positive it will never be financially stable enough to leave Earth. It's just too far-fetched in this time.

[Borklund]

Well, in that case, I guess Mars One is pretty much doomed, huh?

Mars One is never ever going to be anything but a fancy website and marketing.

[Animal Mother]

I found this, though it doesn't mention how much radiation it is proposed that it will absorb.

Also from what I understand the Curiosity Rover was detecting for Protons, what about Electromagnetic Radiation such as that at Ultraviolet Wavelength

[EatThePath]

The thread title is a bit pessimistic, though. Mars landing may be currently outside our grasp, but it's definitely within what is physically possible and even plausible. The main impediments are political and economic.

[karolus10]

This data doesn't tell, that You cannot send people to mars - only that round trip to mars give you +5% to cancer risk (this is still small cancer risk compared to smoking cigarettes on earth).

In this case missions like mars fly-by is just ridiculous idea ,but for early mars missions you always find lot of astronauts willing to take the risk (and never fly into space again if they come back to earth, because of radiation limit).

Advocates of "mars to stay" received another argument for one way mission, because you get less radiation on proper outpost on mars than going back to earth in nearly unshielded ship... also for stay missions could go colonists after mid-age, so they risk much less of getting cancer before they elder and die.

I would rather don't count on some brand new propulsion (especially VASIMR aren't serious competitor of chemical and NTR rockets) who could get us to mars in 2 months (viable only for people, cargo can go 8 months anyway), but focus on new radiation shielding, there is promising idea based on carbon nanotubes composites as decent (and lightweight) radiation shielding.

It would be useful for both protection from space radiation and making nervas safer to use, not mention of application ($$) of carbon nanotubes on earth.

Edited May 31, 2013 by karolus10

[The Stinger]

Carbon nanotubes, is there something it can't do.

It's problems like these that make us smarter.

[falofonos]

A robotic workforce of diggers would just have to make a big hole in the side of olympus mons or wherever and keep digging... Instant radiation shelter and potential source of water as well. Perhaps a better plan would be to settle the poles, that way you get a tiny bit more shielding from the atmosphere and digging down gives you more rock between yourself and the sun. Tricky to land... but more likely to be water there (i think). A polar settlement would have access to all the dry ice they could eat as well.

If the one way mars trippers get to mars, I wouldn't be surprised if they "found" oil, uranium or coltan. Something to make it financially worthwhile to move something approaching civilisation all the way out there.

[GJames]

Pfft...5%, I'd take those odds any day!

Seriously though, we'll think of something. Think how far we've come in the past fifty years, and then think of all the amazing things that we'll have done/made by 2053. If we haven't landed on Mars by then I will be very disappointed.