SSTOs! Post your pictures here~

[Spatzimaus]

With more ion engines... would the burn be shorter?

Yes. It's the same as with any other engine; more engines (or a mod that adds larger ones than the stock 0.625m versions) will reduce your burn durations. But the primary point we're discussing here is that adding more engines doesn't do anything BUT reduce burn duration; if your limiting factors are mass, total delta-V, and fuel supply, those extra engines won't help at all in terms of your total capabilities. With normal rockets bigger is better, so you might as well just double the size and add more engines. But an SSTO spaceplane is a bit more limited, so you go with what works.

I'm not saying you should try propelling a 500-ton space station with a single ion engine. If your burns would take a week to perform, that's just untenable. But a 6-hour burn, reduced to 1.5 hours by the x4 physics acceleration, isn't terrible; you go watch a movie or something, and come back once the burn is more or less complete. If a two-hour break gets you 4000m/s of delta-V that you couldn't otherwise afford, then it's worth the headaches. I don't think my previous design could have made it to Laythe without those ions providing the majority of the Kerbin->Jool transition velocity...

The nice part is that ion engines are fairly light to begin with. If you want to stick a few more of them on your design, to reduce burn times, it won't cripple you mass-wise. The limiting factor, as others have said, is electrical power; if a single ion engine consumes ~15 electricity per second, you'll rapidly run out of places to put solar panels. (And the panels will weigh more than the ions themselves.) RTGs simply don't produce enough power to help with ions, so barring mod parts you'll suffer all of the usual limitations of solar panels. The Gigantor XL's have half the efficiency of the smaller panels, but if you stick enough small panels on your design you'll quickly start having shadowing issues. So there's an effective limit.

[KissSh0t]

Testing a new SSTO and on it's maiden flight I saw the mun go in front of the sun~

I've never seen it do that myself.. only in other peoples screenshots xD

[Overfloater]

Introducing the Airhog MK-I "Piglet"

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Edited November 22, 2013 by Overfloater

[KissSh0t]

Trying to dock a new SSTO to my little space station.. only to discover I had not put rear lateral RCS thrusters on xD

So I couldn't dock it... but I did at least learn how to meet up with an object in orbit in a shorter time period.. compared to my previous attempt of 3 hours.... This time took about 40 minutes

Well.. may as well land it, then keep working on it : U

[RocketTurtle]

Right, fixed rocket TWR, destroyed jet TWR. Anyone have nay ideas on increasing jet TWR without decreasing rocket TWR and changing the overall look?

[Fellow314]

Right, fixed rocket TWR, destroyed jet TWR. Anyone have nay ideas on increasing jet TWR without decreasing rocket TWR and changing the overall look?

More air to run the air breathers higher may be a solution.

[RocketTurtle]

The air wont help, sure higher altitudes, but that wont help TWR at liftoff.

[Fellow314]

The air wont help, sure higher altitudes, but that wont help TWR at liftoff.

Does it not get off the ground?

[RocketTurtle]

No, it does. but look at the screenshot, it's like that the whole time, nose at 30 degrees, prograde marker at 5 degrees.

[KissSh0t]

You could try a basic jet/turbo jet combo engine.. it will fit inside the area you have there already on your aircraft.

I am using this type of engine on my new SSTO, and it works very good.. It lets the aircraft go faster at low altitudes, while being able to fly in the upper atmosphere.

When you get up high, shut down the basic jet engines with an action group and then push yourself as fast as you can with the turbo jets.

The way I do this is basically using a Cubic Octagonal Strut, with another Cubic Octagonal Strut placed on the first and then inverted back into the first Cubic Octagonal Strut.

Have the Turbo Jet first, then place the Basic Jet Last... and the two will conform to each other nicely making it look like a natural combination.

[Fellow314]

What's the TWR? In my experience (and I'm far from an expert) you can get away with a little over two. It may be an aerodynamic problem?

Can you not add another jet?

In the spirit of the thread, this is the vastly over complicated, 199 part, very pointless I.T. X41a featuring a truly staggering number of air intakes and capable of a rather daft apoapsis on jet engines. Useful only for joyriding.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/4at8t050rbdvqnl/X41%20a.craft

[RocketTurtle]

One problem with that KissSh0t... I have intersecting fuel lines... the center tanks go to the jets and the outside go to the nukes/LV-909's. How could I connect the fuel lines to the basic jets and turbojets?

[KissSh0t]

Why so many Gyros Fellow314?

xD

[KissSh0t]

One problem with that KissSh0t... I have intersecting fuel lines... the center tanks go to the jets and the outside go to the nukes/LV-909's. How could I connect the fuel lines to the basic jets and turbojets?

You dont need fuel lines for this type of engine setup. Cubic Octagonal Strut's allow fuel to pass through them, so as long as you stick it on a fuel source.. whatever you stick on those Cubic Octagonal Strut's will recieve fuel from where you stuck the first Cubic Octagonal Strut... You can build long rows of Cubic Octagonal Strut's and the fuel will flow through them all.

[Fellow314]

Why so many Gyros?

xD

Erm, I like them? They make up for aerodynamic instability quite well, but mainly because it was built to zip around the spaceport so I wanted it to be maneuverable. I'm not sure it worked, but she will yaw through 180 degrees, dip slightly then fly off in the opposite direction, which I quite like.

Mainly, I was experimenting.

[RocketTurtle]

You dont need fuel lines for this type of engine setup. Cubic Octagonal Strut's allow fuel to pass through them, so as long as you stick it on a fuel source.. whatever you stick on those Cubic Octagonal Strut's will recieve fuel from where you stuck the first Cubic Octagonal Strut... You can build long rows of Cubic Octagonal Strut's and the fuel will flow through them all.

I mean the center tanks on my SSTO contain the jet fuel, so I have to make fuel lines from the center tank to the engines, but the turbojet is blocking the basic jet.

[Virindi]

No, it does. but look at the screenshot, it's like that the whole time, nose at 30 degrees, prograde marker at 5 degrees.

I only make planes with FAR now, but it seems like there is something you may be missing: lift. If (effective lift)/weight is too low, your angle of attack will need to be too high even at decent speeds.

Your spaceplane looks very similar in configuration to one of my most successful designs.

Vessel: STC-3A "Genie"

Engines:

-2x Turbojet

-2x LV-909

-1x LV-N

Intakes:

-4x Ram Intake

Full Mass: 37.5 metric tons

Jet TWR (Kerbin, fully loaded): 1.09

Rocket TWO (Kerbin, fully loaded): 0.44

Cruise DeltaV (LV-N only, vacuum, fully loaded): 8027 m/s

Wing area: 120.2 m^2 (equivalent to 16.7 stock delta wings)

Wing area to Mass ratio: 3.21

Resource capacity:

-LiquidFuel 2160

-Oxidizer 2640

-MonoPropellant 80

Clipping: None

Edited November 23, 2013 by Virindi

[KissSh0t]

Here are some screenshots showing how the Cubic Octagonal Struts are placed and what the Double Engine looks like. One Cubic Octagonal Strut is placed in the spot you would normally connect the engine, then another is placed on that one and inverted back onto the first.

The Turbo Jet Engine is placed on the rear of the second Cubic Octagonal Strut, and the basic jet engine is placed on the outermost side of the Cubic Octagonal Strut.

Edited November 23, 2013 by KissSh0t

[RocketTurtle]

I know, I get that, but look at this picture.

See the highlighted fuel line? I need that to connect to both engines.

[KissSh0t]

Wing parts can also carry fuel ;>

Give me your ship and I will have a fiddle with it.

[RocketTurtle]

Well alright. It's not set up with the hybrid engines, just turbojets.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r1qNKmBVMedXNvSnZ0NzAwR28/edit?usp=sharing

Also, if you could do a flight test and tell me if it can get to orbit or not and how much DV it has in orbit, that would be great.

[KissSh0t]

I rebuilt your SSTO... and I still cannot get it into orbit... Action groups are 1 = Air Intakes & Turbojet // 2 = Basic Jet Engine "turn off when up at altitude" // 3 = LV909 // 4 = Nuclear.

It really lacks power for it's weight at high altitude when using only Two Turbojets, Perhaps make it lighter or add 2 extra Turbo Jet Engines and more Air Intake for getting the speed you need to get into orbit.

The redesign I have put those double jet engines.. and I have also done different fuel lines, The way you were doing fuel lines was very strange xD

And added spacers between the body and the wings.. I didn't like how the flaps were passing through the Jet Engines and Rockets, I have also turned the flaps away from the body on both sides.

Here is the edit of your craft >> http://www./download/sg33k3aaqcy75nh/Phoenix%2520Mk3%2520%255BKissSh0t%255D.rar

Other than that, it flies pretty good.. a little twitchy.. but it is easy to land.

[RocketTurtle]

How do you recommend getting an extra boost of power to get it into orbit?

I've seen so many SSTO's like this, I just don't understand. :c.

[Hodo]

To be quite frank, it looks heavy.

I personally would drop the nuke engine in favor of something with a bit more power to weight just to get you out of the atmosphere or at least up to 2300m/s.

[RocketTurtle]

I'm trying to make it interplanetary... I suck at SSTO's so much. :C