[PLUGIN, PARTS, Development] [0.20+][0.21+] tek Industries Science v0.4.1

[John Nowak]

It is actually really simple to implement a resource scanner; I have a stock antenna now acting as a "Rock" scanner. I will need to play with the individual planet settings, so that a limited number interesting deposits are shown as a small number of hexes, requiring precision landings. As it stands now, I have it using the same settings as Kethane, which is ok, but not really want we want for science.

...

Another question is, what would be the potential benefits of landing on a scanned hex? What I don't want is players not being able to collect a sample, just because they didn't land on the correct hex, but there should be some kind of benefit to it. Maybe add a flag to the sample, so that if the lander lands on a scanned deposit, it is marked as "interesting", doubling the science points? Something along those lines?

Sounds good to me! My only concern is that a sample taken from anywhere should have _some_ scientific value, but higher value targets are defined places. This would seem to encourage rovers and such without requiring it.

It's a recapitulation of Apollo. The first missions were to validate the system, subsequent missions started going for specific targets with defined value. By Apollo 15, they were going to canyons.

Consider possibly salting the maps so that places that look interesting have higher value when reached. Craters at the poles, the Anomalies, and probably canyons.

[King Jareth]

There could be two resources on planets, a complete coverage generic samples worth low science and a high value targetted information for a more MSL style precision mission worth bonus science?

Kethane mod maps are randomly generated with each new save as far as I know so can't be fixed to set locations.

[tek_604]

There could be two resources on planets, a complete coverage generic samples worth low science and a high value targetted information for a more MSL style precision mission worth bonus science?

Kethane mod maps are randomly generated with each new save as far as I know so can't be fixed to set locations.

This is exactly how I will implement it. Jareth is also correct, for as far as I can see, Kethane randomises the locations. This will lead to plenty of oddities, with some interesting locations appearing in the lakes/oceans of Eve/Laythe. Nothing I can do about it though.

My plan is to have a number (as yet unknown) of hexes per body which will be scientifically interesting. These would require precision landings, depending upon the size of the body in question. These hexes will give some kind of point bonus. Everywhere will be available for sampling though. And this will only apply to rock sampling.

Exactly what the end goal of all this sampling and analysis will be, is still under discussion.

[Lanfranc]

That sounds like a lovely system, tek_104. It would give the mod depth by allowing a simple low-reward path and a more difficult high-reward path. Perhaps you could dress up the rock scanner as a ground-penetrating radar? Those are usually used on the ground, but I don't see why you couldn't use one on a satellite, if you're willing to expend the energy for a super-high signal strength.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter actually has a ground penetrating radar (the SHARAD system) equipped, so it's definitely possible.

This looks like a great mod, I'll check it out. Always nice to have more science things to do out there!

[tek_604]

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter actually has a ground penetrating radar (the SHARAD system) equipped, so it's definitely possible.

This looks like a great mod, I'll check it out. Always nice to have more science things to do out there!

First, welcome to the mod! I hope you enjoy using it, and if not, or even if you do, but see something else you might want, feel free to post a message or two here or on github!

As for your suggestion though, I've already decided to go with a camera-type (I'm hoping Dawn's Framing Cameras...). Maybe... just maybe... room could be had for a ground penetrating radar in the future. Just not right now...

[tek_604]

Does anyone happen to know if the number of hexes produced by the Kethane mod is a fixed number, or variable per body?

[King Jareth]

In the root kethane folder there's a grid.cfg file that I think messes with this and is per body.

But messing with it might mess up other kethane resources.

Unless you mean number of hexes containing the resourse, thats defined in the resource definition under body depositcount = and the radius variables I think.

Edited July 19, 2013 by King Jareth

[scottholio]

@tek_604 Check this out Linky I think that might be the answer to your question?

[tek_604]

Now that 0.21 has been released, I will get a fully compatible version out this weekend. I do not expect any issues with the current release, but, its always nice to compile your plugins against the latest version of libraries it requires.

I also plan on keeping the current release available, but, all new development will be with the newest release of KSP. The next planned update will most likely be parts...

@tek_604 Check this out Linky I think that might be the answer to your question?

This might be the answer to my question, but his answer is a little confusing actually. I can't see how the size of a cell would be the same everywhere, if the number of cells stays the same. I would expect the number of cells to stay constant, and therefore the size of the cell to be variable, or if the cell size stays constant, the number of cells to be variable. So, I'm confused. I think I'll PM Majiir to be on the safe side.

For the record, I would actually expect the number of cells to remain constant, with the size varying.

Edited July 25, 2013 by tek_604
Added answer re Kethane cells

[Kimberly]

This might be the answer to my question, but his answer is a little confusing actually. I can't see how the size of a cell would be the same everywhere, if the number of cells stays the same. I would expect the number of cells to stay constant, and therefore the size of the cell to be variable, or if the cell size stays constant, the number of cells to be variable. So, I'm confused. I think I'll PM Majiir to be on the safe side.

For the record, I would actually expect the number of cells to remain constant, with the size varying.

He said that on a 2D map, the cells vary in size. On his 3D overlay, however, the amount of cells at the poles is smaller, with the average size of a cell being constant all over the globe.

[tek_604]

Version 0.4.1 has been released!

No changes in this version, beyond compiling against KSP 0.21.1. Any new versions will be compiled against the latest KSP at the time; but, for those wanting to remain on KSP 0.20, you can use 0.4.0. See the first post for the downloads.

I have also finally introduced a proper license, as it is becoming more of an issue these days. I have checked with King Jareth, and he has agreed to the license for his parts also. The license I have selected allows for anyone to modify and distribute the mod, as long as it is done for free, and gives me and King Jareth proper attribution for the work we've done thus far. Further information regarding the license can be found in the first post.

As for further development; I have done a little since 0.21 came out, but, it looks like I need to wait for an update to Kethane to let me do what I want. As for parts, that I keep promising, they will come! Keep an eye on this thread.

And, as always, ideas are welcome! Post here, or on github!

[Scotius]

Thanks for the update

[sumghai]

Hi tek, sorry for being a bit quiet on the sampling statistics proportion of this mod - I've been fairly busy with postgrad, fixing my KSP 0.21 install and the FusTek parts.

That being said, at some stage in the future I plan to integrate your science features into my Karmony Sciences Module by default

[tek_604]

Hi tek, sorry for being a bit quiet on the sampling statistics proportion of this mod - I've been fairly busy with postgrad, fixing my KSP 0.21 install and the FusTek parts.

That being said, at some stage in the future I plan to integrate your science features into my Karmony Sciences Module by default

Not a problem at all! I've been too quiet also. Work, and the heat we've had in Germany does not equal a good time for concentrating in your spare time. Good luck with your postgrad! (whats your subject btw?)

I'm very glad to hear about your Karmony Sciences Modules. If there is anything I can help with, then give me a shout!

[sumghai]

Not a problem at all! I've been too quiet also. Work, and the heat we've had in Germany does not equal a good time for concentrating in your spare time. Good luck with your postgrad! (whats your subject btw?)

Engineering - specifically, MEMS/lab-on-a-chip devices.

I'm very glad to hear about your Karmony Sciences Modules. If there is anything I can help with, then give me a shout!

Will do

[Benie]

This mod sounds promising. I'll be watching its progress.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Benie

[zxczxczbfg]

I think the EVA for the science command pod should show a bundle of equipment strapped into the empty chair. Right now it just shows the stock IVA, but I bet someone here could make a custom one for you. It seems very Kerbal to me to just kick out a crewman to make room for some equipment strapped into his seat.

Edited August 4, 2013 by zxczxczbfg

[HeadHunter67]

at some stage in the future I plan to integrate your science features into my Karmony Sciences Module by default

I'm really looking forward to that - my space stations need proper orbital science capabilities! There are a lot of options for planetary science, but as far as an orbital lab goes, not much beyond the gravimeter and accelerometer. Stuff like chromatography and spectrography would be cool.

[tek_604]

OK, I should make an update about whats happening. Since the release of 0.21.1, I've not been playing KSP at all. I'm pretty disappointed with the performance of the game, and for a plugin developer, its a living hell. Make changes, compile, load game, quick test, exit. The load, test, exit parts take FOREVER, and this is not fun.

I'll be keeping an eye out for a performance update, and then we'll get cracking again. It doesn't help when we have the sun out, and lots of heat either (as I've said before). As for modelling, Jareth is in a similar situation, with real life and summer holidays taking over, so no progress has been made. A prototype for an IVA for the Orbital Lab was under development, which should include science equipment inside the capsule.

This mod isn't dead, its just having a bit of a sleep for a while. If people continue to use us, and keep the discussion going, that would be great

[sumghai]

tek, try this:

- Launch the game

- Go to space center scene

- Go to VAB/SPH/flight and do whatever tests you want

- Go back to space center

- Open up the debug menu (Alt-F12 in Windows)

- Go to Database tab

- Click the reload button - the game will stay running but reload any changes to plugins and parts

- Repeat steps 3 to 7 until you're satisfied with your plugin edits

This should be able to speed up development time by cutting back on unneccessary restarts of KSP

[Weatherman159]

tek, try this:

- Launch the game

- Go to space center scene

- Go to VAB/SPH/flight and do whatever tests you want

- Go back to space center

- Open up the debug menu (Alt-F12 in Windows)

- Go to Database tab

- Click the reload button - the game will stay running but reload any changes to plugins and parts

- Repeat steps 3 to 7 until you're satisfied with your plugin edits

This should be able to speed up development time by cutting back on unneccessary restarts of KSP

I'm pretty sure that only reloads parts, not plugins. Or it did that in 0.20, anyway.

[vasco]

Regarding Hitchhiker Science Laboratory - can you analyse more then 10 samples?

You have mentioned that the ovens can be reused, but how does it work in practice?

I'm building a long-term mission right now and your mode gives it a lot more purpose:)

But I'd like to be able to analyse all three samples from each body I visit.

[tek_604]

Regarding Hitchhiker Science Laboratory - can you analyse more then 10 samples?

You have mentioned that the ovens can be reused, but how does it work in practice?

I'm building a long-term mission right now and your mode gives it a lot more purpose:)

But I'd like to be able to analyse all three samples from each body I visit.

Not yet! I was planning on implementing a way of sending spare parts to the station, I've just not gotten round to it yet. But, it is on the list of things to do. When I get around to doing some more coding, this should be a priority, as its not so difficult to do really.

Glad you like the mod though, thats always nice to hear

[sumghai]

I'm pretty sure that only reloads parts, not plugins. Or it did that in 0.20, anyway.

Strange - it worked for me in 0.21+.

[HeadHunter67]

Well, that's handy even for a player to know! I can't count the number of times I've loaded the game and realized there was something I'd wanted to change or adjust. With a lot of mods, that's a 10-minute proposition sometimes.