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The L.O.G. Multiplayer Project

MarkusA380

By MarkusA380
in KSP1 Mod Development

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Do you like the idea of it?  

2 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the idea of it?


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dimmy

dimmy

Posted
Posted

Im is development team leader (C++\ASM) so my question goes for looking troubles to solve.

For example "teleport - when warp", etc. there are a lot of theory things to solve. Not practice.

In this look of L.O.G. project it is some of them:

When i created my ship and fly to the Duna and warped time to stop it when i will be near Duna... Server records it...

In this time my friend created more fast ship and find more efficient traectory to Duna and fly to intercept me!

Server LOG have record of my fly and get my coordinates in each day of my warp-fly.

So, he intercepts my ship in 7 day of my warp-fly and destroy it...

What should i get when turned back to the game?

Destroyed ship near the kerbin (7 days of fly) or nearly warped ship from "cyberspace" whitout any attack on it?

What questions have developers in this time in theory? How they will solve problem i described?

Before something to program you need an algorithm what to do and how to do.

For me... I think it's better create something as "cyberspace" for now. When player turn on "warp" - it dissapear and appear in 5 seconds in other place.

What about different times and coordinates? Player with no warping should have the max time while he is in the stational orbit or should wait while other is warping...

So it should take warping "rules" - allow to warp with interval every 20 minutes, or, for example, to have a warp-engine in the game, which cost a lot electricity and science to activate it.

Theese are good questions to find solution for.

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Krevsin

Krevsin

Posted
Posted
Why did you post twice? And why with such a bad english? I don't understand anything you wrote.

I think what he was trying to say is, what happens if he sends a ship to Duna, does all the maneouvers and has a Duna orbit (but does not exit the game), but then, a friend of his also sends a ship to duna and timewarps until it reaches the same orbit. Will his friend see the ship or not?

Again, this is only what I managed to extrapolate from the general mess of his post.

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dimmy

dimmy

Posted
Posted
I think what he was trying to say is, what happens if he sends a ship to Duna, does all the maneouvers and has a Duna orbit (but does not exit the game), but then, a friend of his also sends a ship to duna and timewarps until it reaches the same orbit. Will his friend see the ship or not?

Again, this is only what I managed to extrapolate from the general mess of his post.

mmmm no.

1) i send ship to duna and waiting for friend there.

2) friend create ship and can intercept my ship in space while im flying! before my ship gets duna.

so in my reality my ship is alive.

but in friends "reality" (game) his ship intercepts my ship and crashed it.

but if it will be as we saw on this great video, friend cant intercept my ship because speed of it is too high in is "reality" (game time).

server saves time of each game for doing warp?

so after warping we have:

player1: 1day 12h 54m

player2: 123day 11h 12m

but in the multiplayer we have "1day 12h 54m [player1]" == ""123day 11h 12m [player2]" isnt it?

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Krevsin

Krevsin

Posted
Posted
mmmm no.

1) i send ship to duna and waiting for friend there.

2) friend create ship and can intercept my ship in space while im flying! before my ship gets duna.

so in my reality my ship is alive.

but in friends "reality" (game) his ship intercepts my ship and crashed it.

but if it will be as we saw on this great video, friend cant intercept my ship because speed of it is too high in is "reality" (game time).

server saves time of each game for doing warp?

so after warping we have:

player1: 1day 12h 54m

player2: 123day 11h 12m

but in the multiplayer we have "1day 12h 54m [player1]" == ""123day 11h 12m [player2]" isnt it?

Hmmmm.... One question, just how does one intercept a vehicle en-route to a planet? That'd require massive amounts of Delta V and fine maneouvering. The only way to do it without would be if the ships were on the same orbit (launched at the same time) and same transfer.

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pizzaoverhead

pizzaoverhead

Posted
Posted
Hmmmm.... One question, just how does one intercept a vehicle en-route to a planet?

The same way you intercept a planet, except with a much smaller target ;)

mmmm no.

1) i send ship to duna and waiting for friend there.

2) friend create ship and can intercept my ship in space while im flying! before my ship gets duna.

so in my reality my ship is alive.

but in friends "reality" (game) his ship intercepts my ship and crashed it.

One way to fix that would be to disable physics using "on-rails" mode. If LOG kept your Duna ship in on-rails mode when you were warping, the other player wouldn't be able to interact with it, so there would be no problem. In stock KSP, if you go too fast when docking and are about to crash into the station, you can hit 2x warp and you'll drift through it instead because it is on rails with no physics.

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Exxion

Exxion

Posted
Posted
One way to fix that would be to disable physics using "on-rails" mode. If LOG kept your Duna ship in on-rails mode when you were warping, the other player wouldn't be able to interact with it, so there would be no problem. In stock KSP, if you go too fast when docking and are about to crash into the station, you can hit 2x warp and you'll drift through it instead because it is on rails with no physics.

That would probably be the only way to do it without causing some massive desync problems, anyway.

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dimmy

dimmy

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, as i read, you almost understand what i mean. =)

But i mean something other:

1) Imagine that you using xenon engine (too slow for speeding up) and JUST starting warp to play to Duna.

2) Imaging that you left 1 minute of fling to Duna (it needs 20 minutes more to go to Duna in warp mode)

3) I created my ship at the time you decided to warp, but with a lot of liquid engines for fast speed up.

4) I set my orbit to intercept your ship while it is in warp! And launched warp too.

5) In 2 minutes because of using a lot of liquid engines my ship will be near your ship while it is being in warp! (before you get Duna)

6) When our ships be in 100km from each other there should be slow-down the speed (up to 4x as you is in the planet's atmosphere), or exit fromthe warp FOR BOTH SHIPS.

If not to do so, then presence of "no physics" doesnt allow to collision them and hit each other.

Guys, understand my question? What about to collision of your ship and mine while one of them being in the warp?

Or is there will be the minimal distance limit between ships before to do warp?

I think it should be. The minimal distance allowing warp.

If ships are under of it then you cant warp!

If ships go near each other, then warp auto offs!

Dont think so? (If understand my poor english...)

Edited by dimmy
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luckruns0ut

luckruns0ut

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've just had an idea about how synchronization may be easier, though this is one of the first KSP Multiplayer threads I've read so it may have been suggested before... Anyway, couldn't it be viable to synchronize players relative to the body which they are influenced by? Time warp is a big issue, that has been established. If a player is to warp time, the planets on that client will be unsynchronized with the other clients' planets, right? However, the planet itself does not ever change. We could treat each planet as a 'room' with the boundaries determined by its sphere of influence, for example. The player(s) who enter the sphere of influence of that planet (or within a certain distance of it) will be synchronized with other players, and should they timewarp whilst in this 'room', it will just look like they are moving faster, like in the video. Their position would be stored local to the planet to make things simpler to synch. Obviously things such as time of day etc will not be synchronized, though the idea of playing with friends etc could still be achieved. I didn't spend long thinking about this so it might be flawed... It's just an idea.

EDIT: Not sure if I made this clear, but it would not matter if the planets' positions were not synchronized. If each planet is treated as a room, someone sitting on that planet would just be able to see other players entering that room. I find it hard to describe this. Let's say a player creates a ship and heads towards the Mun. He flies close enough to have an encounter with the Mun. His client will then tell the server that he is joining the 'Mun Room' and so the server will send him information about any other players who are also in the 'Mun Room'.

Edited by luckruns0ut
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CARROTSAREAWSOME

CARROTSAREAWSOME

Posted
Posted
So, as i read, you almost understand what i mean. =)

But i mean something other:

1) Imagine that you using xenon engine (too slow for speeding up) and JUST starting warp to play to Duna.

2) Imaging that you left 1 minute of fling to Duna (it needs 20 minutes more to go to Duna in warp mode)

3) I created my ship at the time you decided to warp, but with a lot of liquid engines for fast speed up.

4) I set my orbit to intercept your ship while it is in warp! And launched warp too.

5) In 2 minutes because of using a lot of liquid engines my ship will be near your ship while it is being in warp! (before you get Duna)

6) When our ships be in 100km from each other there should be slow-down the speed (up to 4x as you is in the planet's atmosphere), or exit fromthe warp FOR BOTH SHIPS.

If not to do so, then presence of "no physics" doesnt allow to collision them and hit each other.

Guys, understand my question? What about to collision of your ship and mine while one of them being in the warp?

Or is there will be the minimal distance limit between ships before to do warp?

I think it should be. The minimal distance allowing warp.

If ships are under of it then you cant warp!

If ships go near each other, then warp auto offs!

Dont think so? (If understand my poor english...)

I got your point. I think.

I think we will just disable collitions on the timewarping vessel.

For other people, what he ment with hes question is that if you have ship on warp, and someone rendervouzes you in your past (hes/shes present time) and docks or tryes do dock with you at 100m/s, what will happen to your ship in future?

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pizzaoverhead

pizzaoverhead

Posted
Posted
6) When our ships be in 100km from each other there should be slow-down the speed (up to 4x as you is in the planet's atmosphere), or exit fromthe warp FOR BOTH SHIPS.

If you slow your ship down to 1x warp, my ship is still in a special LOG 1x warp until I disable it, so you can't affect it still because it is on rails. Is that closer to your question?

I've just had an idea about how synchronization may be easier, though this is one of the first KSP Multiplayer threads I've read so it may have been suggested before... [...] Time warp is a big issue, that has been established.

The LOG Multiplayer project fixes the timewarp issue so that it isn't an issue any longer. That is what it's whole concept is. Read the thread to see.

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luckruns0ut

luckruns0ut

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure if I've understood it entirely... Does this mean that it would be impossible to get a real-time interaction with friends if you wanted to play with them? It seems as though it is just a collection of recorded flights which people have taken and is completely un-interactive. Is this correct?

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