[Stock] Flapping-wing plane

[Pds314]

Goal:

Your goal is to build a plane that goes as fast as possible during level flight without using any engines.

How this is possible:

Using control surfaces and (A)SAS, it is possible to cause a flapping or swimming motion through the air to generate forward thrust.

Rules:

1. Unmodified stock parts only, exceptions may be made for parts that do not have a significant effect on flight ability, mod-added auto-pilots ARE allowed, as long as they don't provide thrust or additional SAS.

2. You MAY use an engine to take off or land, but it is not a requirement.

3. Only sustainable speeds are allowed, e.g. you can't post a speed only due to engine thrust, or due to a stoop dive.

4. You MAY NOT use an engine to propel the plane during top speed attempts, duh.

5. You MUST remain in atmosphere to count it as your highest speed. (Shrike-SSTOs would be pretty unfair)

Amendments:

1. It should have at least a cockpit and a parachute or gear, as well as a lift-generating part when it reaches this speed. This excludes random debris travelling at a noteworthy fraction of C.

2. You may exit the atmosphere, but only by speed generated due to lift-devices, not by engine-power

3. You may make an entry on any planet, but remember, the speed should be due to lift/control surfaces, doesn't matter if you can enter Jool at 10,000 m/s, if you can't get back to that speed, it doesn't count.

My first attempt:

The Kiwi MK II, it weighs just 3.89 tonnes, ASAS-powered top-speed of 309.3 m/s It takes off at 15 m/s and lands without use of engines. Expression on Johnwin's face is priceless.

My second attempt:

The Kiwi MK III, added several aerodynamic upgrades, now weighs 4.89 tonnes, ASAS-powered top-speed of 429.6 m/s, MACH 1.26. It breaks the sound barrier less than a second from getting out of KSC, The lowest recorded take-off speed is only 9.9 m/s.

Ready for take-off!

Leaving the KSC east Beach, note the speedometer.

Burly considers whether to eject or die of fright.

Only 128 Meters from the sea, Burly has decided to die of fright. The wind is obscuring some parts of the plane.

TOP SPEED! 9 meters off of the ocean! 429.6 meters per second.

I have made a third attempt, it is named the EMU MK I. It has been recorded at 943.8 m/s (Nearly Mach 3), but it can DEFINITELY go faster.

Speed records: MANNED

1. Pds314(me): 4348 m/s in the U.H.S.I.P.M.I.C.B.M. (Pronounced: yoo-sip-mic-bam, stands for UltraHyperSonic Infiniglide-Powered Manned ICBM)

2. Biff Ironbarge: 4008.0 m/s in the Infiniglide Spider Web 3

3. Biff Ironbarge: 3092.9 m/s in the Infiniglide Spider Web 2

4. Nils42: 1177.3 m/s in the Flapie Wingie Mk2

5. Pds314 (me): 943.8 m/s in the Emu Mk I

6. Pds314 (me): 429 m/s in the Kiwi MK III

7. Skykooler: 330.1 m/s in the Turbine 2

8. Pds314 (me): 309.3 m/s in the Kiwi MK II

Speed records: UNMANNED

1. Pds314(me): 6162 m/s in the Sonax II

2. Pds314(me): 5744 m/s in the Ultrahypersonic Infiniglide ICBM

3. Skyhawk: 4118 m/s in the Hummingbird

4. AgentPaper: 2738.3 m/s in the Flaming Ball of Flaming Incendiary Fire

5. AgentPaper: 1730.2 m/s in the Flaming Ball of Fire

Possible Speed records (require verification, numbers represent where they would be on the above list):

4th unmanned. Nalin_Airheart: 3281.6 m/s in the AV-R8 winglet. Requires a plane/no photo of actual ship.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Pds314

[skykooler]

My entry: 330.1 m/s in the Turbine 2.

Powered by command pod torque; spinning accelerates it, up to a point.

[Pds314]

Third attempt: Will post images when speed becomes definite and on a good flight.

The Emu MK I.

Speed (approx, not top speed): 970 m/s

It clears 650 m/s by the time it gets over water. If I can stabilize the flight, I might be able to enter it the Maching bird challenge.

[AgentPaper]

You MUST remain in atmosphere to count it as your highest speed.

Does it count if you get into space after reaching your top speed?

That's just over Mach 5.

Immediately after this, I was too high up to control myself, and entered space with an apoapsis of 191km. Not a stable orbit, though it's probably possible.

For the record, there are no, and never were any, engines on that. Taking off simply required retracting and re-extending the gear, and then flapping around until I got in the air.

Edit: Here's a pic of the thing in orbit. You can see the craft itself here as well, rather than just a flaming ball of fire:

Edited June 14, 2013 by AgentPaper

[Jod]

Does it count if you get into space after reaching your top speed?

Edit: Here's a pic of the thing in orbit. You can see the craft itself here as well, rather than just a flaming ball of fire:

So... You think this can fly on Eve as well? As in - landing, picking up kerbals and transporting them to orbit?

[firerider521]

I lol'd at "ASAS Powered". WOBBLE WOBBLE WOBBLE!

[AgentPaper]

So... You think this can fly on Eve as well? As in - landing, picking up kerbals and transporting them to orbit?

No clue, but getting there should be fairly easy. It can put itself into a sub-orbital trajectory and recover from orbital insertion already, so all you need is the ~3000m/s of delta-V to do all the in-space bits. With a total mass of .37t, it shouldn't take much of a rocket to reach that.

Edit: Also, how is SAS or ASAS supposed to help with this? As far as I can tell, all it does is add unnecessary weight.

Edited June 14, 2013 by AgentPaper

[Pds314]

Updating the speed records, 1730.2, enter it in Maching bird!!!

[Pds314]

and yes, it does count if you reach space afterward

[Nalin_Airheart]

I do have pictures of one wing that I had which went into a suborbital trajectory after it's respective ship exploded because of kraken-related problems on the launch tower. (It was in the demo) Beat that, 3281.6m/s Top speed.

2013-05-26_00011 by Nalin_Airheart, on Flickr

Now I'm just waiting for some to make a micro-probe (Or Kerbal Jetpack ) with a thousand canards on the launch pad.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Nalin_Airheart

[Pds314]

Tip: these planes seem to work best near sea-level.

IDK if one would work well on Eve or Jool, but I never specified what planet it had to be on, so those are allowed.

[Jod]

I was going to try something like this for my Eve lander in case my current configuration failed. I am planning to use a tug that catches landers sub-orbit and pulls them to stable orbits anyway, so I might consider this in the future even if it is a little bit exploitative.

[Pds314]

Post a pick of the actual plane, or at least tell me its speed.

[Pds314]

Birds use this in real life, but they just can't flap as hard, and it actually costs energy.

[Jod]

Nah, only when I'm desperate enough to use it instead of the conventional methods. So maybe later.

[Nalin_Airheart]

Notice me please, my post is on the first page but you seem to have ignored me. :C

[Pds314]

Notice me please, my post is on the first page but you seem to have ignored me. :C

Did the ship actually go that fast? Also, was the ship being powered by rockets at the time?

updated the speed, yours is now first in the unverified category

Edited June 14, 2013 by Pds314

[Nalin_Airheart]

The ship itself was an experimental mun lander which went approximately 0.00m/s since it self detonated on the launch tower (Dang kraken). With ASAS on though this wing recovered after dropping from one of the higher stages and had another wing stay with it until physics unloaded it after one suborbital hop. More pictures to come underneath.

Also are spoilers broken? "

"

All relevant pics here. http://flic.kr/s/aHsjG3Uqwo

EDIT: Also if I launched/destroyed the ship just to launch a few AV-R8 winglets that would be a bit of a waste. I'll go look for the craft and semi-full pictures of it anyway though.

EDIT 2: Looks like the craft for my N-2 Rescue Lander was scrapped. I'll attempt a recreation of big wobbly rocket + ASAS winglets.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Nalin_Airheart

[AgentPaper]

After a bit more tweaking (aka: MOAR FLAPS), I've improved my speed. I also submitted this to the machingbird challenge, now that it's broken all of the records there without breaking a sweat. Assuming they don't throw a kraken at me for not using jet engines.

I'm not sure that you can go much faster than this. It's true that these things work better at lower altitude, but trying to go this fast at sea level causes this ship to fall to pieces instantly. I was only able to reach this speed by staying ~10km up, where the atmosphere is thin enough that I don't break into pieces. Unfortunately, if I go any higher than that, the flaps become useless pretty quickly.

[Jod]

Try struts, the physics engine don't count them as mass I think. At least that's what the wiki says.

[AgentPaper]

Try struts, the physics engine don't count them as mass I think. At least that's what the wiki says.

They do have mass, though not much.

I tried adding a few to reinforce the parts that break, but all it seems to have done is slow the ship down. It doesn't fall apart anymore, but I think that's more due to the much reduced G-forces and slower speeds rather than it actually being significantly more robust. Not sure why it slows down so much, must be some weird drag calculations.

[nils42]

1291.2 m/s on slight dive 1177.3 m/s on rising grade with my ship the "flapie wingie mk2"

*note the failing planet loading, aka my graphics card is crap

[Spoo Hunter]

This is so cool that words fail me...

By the way aircraft that flap their wings to fly are call ornithropters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithopter).

[Biff Ironbarge]

Hey guys, long-time lurker here, finally breaking my forum silence to submit my .20 version of the infiniglider I built back in .17 - the Infiniglide Spider Web! I think my original could manage about 1200 m/s, but I've made a few improvements with the new model (moar flaps and struts!) and, well...

I ran into the same troubles AgentPaper did... at low altitudes the thing would disintegrate once it hit about 1600 m/s. It was endlessly entertaining to watch all the wings shred off and spiral around the cockpit, but after many failed attempts I decided to fly carefully for the sake of poor Harely's new heart condition. Ended up having to cruise up to 2 km and then start barrel rolling this thing into lunacy.

[rpayne88]

Can I use Damned Robotics?