Benoit Hage Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks for the quick reply!Well, it seems that I must have done something wrong...ScreenshotOutput_log.txtI'll try to re-install everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benoit Hage Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I re-install both mods and get rid of that old saves and it's working nicely. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 How come this isn't affected by tweaking the RCS thrust limiter? No matter what I set it at, if I have two RCS blocks putting out 1Kn each the window always reads 2Kn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) How come this isn't affected by tweaking the RCS thrust limiter? No matter what I set it at, if I have two RCS blocks putting out 1Kn each the window always reads 2Kn.RCS's thrust isn't tweakable, what are you talking about. If you're using TweakableEverything mod or similar, then state it. If is TweakableEverything then that's an issue with that mod and not RCSBuildAid. Edited June 13, 2014 by m4v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Apparently, even though I thought I removed TweakableEverything, it was still in another install folder that I copied over, so I was using it without realizing it hence not mentioning it.I'll see if the TE modder can fix whatever is causing RCS Build Aid not to register the change in thrust. This would make things a lot easier to balance out an uneven craft that doesn't have a way to change its CoM (like pumping fuel around) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ok so I am building a space shuttle and have been trying to use it with this mod and failing miserably. How do we use the rcs aid to build a shuttle? Do we WANT torque? Do we want the green arrow point straight up because I can NEVER get it to do that. I'm just frustrated and at a loss. I've adjusted trim, I've rebalanced fuel, I've done everything I can to make this stupid thing fly in RSS and RSO but it 1) Always wants to do a front flip even though NO torque is showing in the VAB 2) I can't control the craft other than go straight up. I've attached rxn wheels to my shuttle etc. It's starting to really irk me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taki117 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ok so I am building a space shuttle and have been trying to use it with this mod and failing miserably. How do we use the rcs aid to build a shuttle? Do we WANT torque? Do we want the green arrow point straight up because I can NEVER get it to do that. I'm just frustrated and at a loss. I've adjusted trim, I've rebalanced fuel, I've done everything I can to make this stupid thing fly in RSS and RSO but it 1) Always wants to do a front flip even though NO torque is showing in the VAB 2) I can't control the craft other than go straight up. I've attached rxn wheels to my shuttle etc. It's starting to really irk me.A picture of the craft would really help here. I have a SSTO spaceplane that I have RCS Balanced quite well and I haven't had any issues with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 And when I put the SRB's on, all hell breaks loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taki117 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) You should angle your main engines on your shuttle to fire through the center of mass. (Make sure SRBs are attached) and then you should have a second set of non-angled engines for orbital maneuvers. Check out this mod (If you don't have it already) Edited June 23, 2014 by Taki117 Added link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 I really don't know how to build a shuttle type rocket. You don't want to have much torque (as in any rocket) but getting the thrust direction to point straight up might not be feasible. The biggest problem would be to keep it balanced as it burns fuel, since the CoM will start shifting to where the DCoM is and then if it isn't balanced it will start flipping. I believe that most of the shuttles out here use some automatic balance mod for keep everything straight during flight but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taverius Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Unless you use dtobi's Shuttle Engines mod you're going to have trouble, because the real shuttle engines had ~10 degrees of gimbal, while most KSP engines have 1. That's simply not enough to keep it targeting the CoM as fuel mass changes balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Yeah I'm already using that mod... along with real engines, engine ignitor and rss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Can someone explain what each arrow color represent (in the build aid)? I've looked at the tutorial pics on the first page but I'm not very clear what they all mean.Green = direction of thrustRed arrow = ?Red ball = DCoM (dry center of mass)Red spinny thing = torque (which I asssume represents tendency for a craft to spin due to its thrust vector?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppnessmonsta Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Red arrow is part of the torque. it shows you how bad it is. bigger arrow, more torque. i go by the number in the window, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Can someone explain what each arrow color represent (in the build aid)? I've looked at the tutorial pics on the first page but I'm not very clear what they all mean.Green = direction of thrustRed arrow = ?Red ball = DCoM (dry center of mass)Red spinny thing = torque (which I asssume represents tendency for a craft to spin due to its thrust vector?)Red arrow is torque, the red circular arrow represents the angular acceleration, but you can call it the tendency of the craft to spin.You might have torque (red arrow is visible) but not a significant angular acceleration (no circular arrow is shown), so reducing torque to zero might not be necessary. Unless you want a rocket that flies straight without SAS and without input. Edited June 23, 2014 by m4v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Right well... I get my torque down to 0 in the VAB, launch my craft, all of a sudden the ship starts torquing like a nutt job. I revert back to VAB, torque is now 800 kN. The problem isn't me, its the false information that RCS build aid is giving me during my design process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Right.Did you check the balance in both the CoM and DCoM markers? And as other pointed, it might not possible to do what you want with engines without enough gimbal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodo Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The funny thing is about the real space shuttle. When it takes off the shuttles boosters are not at 100% throttle. It isn't till a few seconds before the SRBs are separated that they go full throttle on the shuttle engines. You may want to test launching at different throttle settings to see if it fixes your launch control issues. I never had much luck with a piggy back shuttle launch like the real shuttle but I only messed with the concept for about a day then I moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeGee Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The funny thing is about the real space shuttle. When it takes off the shuttles boosters are not at 100% throttle. It isn't till a few seconds before the SRBs are separated that they go full throttle on the shuttle engines. You may want to test launching at different throttle settings to see if it fixes your launch control issues. I never had much luck with a piggy back shuttle launch like the real shuttle but I only messed with the concept for about a day then I moved on.I asked myself that question as well and tested different throttle settings to see if it would work. The problem is the rcs build aid give me wrong information on thrust torque. It isnt until I reach the launch pad that the stupid thing corrects itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 I asked myself that question as well and tested different throttle settings to see if it would work. The problem is the rcs build aid give me wrong information on thrust torque. It isnt until I reach the launch pad that the stupid thing corrects itself.Again, check both the CoM and DCoM markers, click in the "Reference" button, you're probably balancing for one marker but not the other, and as you should be aware, the center of mass of your vessel will shift from the CoM towards the DCoM.If you still think that is giving false information then show me some screenshots so I can try to figure what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I asked myself that question as well and tested different throttle settings to see if it would work. The problem is the rcs build aid give me wrong information on thrust torque. It isnt until I reach the launch pad that the stupid thing corrects itself.Make sure you don't have any of your fuels/monopropellant/whatnot checked (eg. ignored) in the RCS options box in the VAB. if you do, you might be getting incorrect CoM/DCoM stats. (I use RealFuels in RSS so I am acutely aware of what happens when RCSBA is ignoring something, like Hydrazine or LiquidH2.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Is there any way to make RCS BuildAid focus on a single stage? I'm building a 2-part lunar lander, and for the landing stage the dry CoM includes the ascent stage, so I have no idea where the dry CoM would be with the ascent stage's tanks still full like they will be during landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanKell Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You could use the wet CoM but tweak the descent tanks dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'll see if the TE modder can fix whatever is causing RCS Build Aid not to register the change in thrust. This would make things a lot easier to balance out an uneven craft that doesn't have a way to change its CoM (like pumping fuel around)This past week TweakableEverything made the fix to allow RCS Build Aid to recognize the change in RCS thrust. It will soon be able to allow finer tweak values as well (down to 1%). Great news for taking care of asymmetric thrust without having to always move RCS blocks around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4v Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Is there any way to make RCS BuildAid focus on a single stage? I'm building a 2-part lunar lander, and for the landing stage the dry CoM includes the ascent stage, so I have no idea where the dry CoM would be with the ascent stage's tanks still full like they will be during landing.Not possible, RCSBuildAid isn't stage aware and I'm not sure how to do that. You will have to remove the parts that you don't want or play with the fuel sliders like NathanKell pointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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