[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

[BahamutoD]

That is outright beautiful. Is there somewhere I can try that out? (My own attempts at VTOL craft invariably end in deathspins during ascent.)

I can upload a .craft file but it uses several different mods so it might be difficult to figure out everything you need to fly it. Anyways, it's still a work in progress since it can't land yet, so once I have a version I'm happy with, I'll gladly post it.

Edit: Also, its a framerate killer, and causes my computer to go to sleep to prevent overheating haha so progress is slow.

Not yet but there will be a small little delta sign to label what is moving.

Aren't both sides moving in relation to each other anyway? Does it matter?

Anyways, that rover probe with the folding parts... I like. That gives me even more ideas

[sirkut]

I can upload a .craft file but it uses several different mods so it might be difficult to figure out everything you need to fly it. Anyways, it's still a work in progress since it can't land yet, so once I have a version I'm happy with, I'll gladly post it.

Edit: Also, its a framerate killer, and causes my computer to go to sleep to prevent overheating haha so progress is slow.

Aren't both sides moving in relation to each other anyway? Does it matter?

Anyways, that rover probe with the folding parts... I like. That gives me even more ideas

Upload the file anyway. I can figure it out.

As for the parts they both aren't moving. One of them is specified as the fixed meshed and that one stays still while the other one has it's mesh moved.

Glad the rover probe gives you more ideas! I've been wanting pint sized robotic parts since I discovered the original plugin. Now I am slowly getting them made. Rotatrons will be next after these!

[ecat]

This is awesome on so many levels. Will you be releasing that when its finished? I need to get the gantry done!

I'll release it if I can get it fully working. At the moment it's single axis only and I've not tested any kind of part rotation, but this is all I need so, we'll see. I'm dreading any 3d transforms as I do not posses such occult knowledge, neither do I have sufficient virgin chickens to make the sacrifice to gain such knowledge.

Lookign forward to your next release. Just now I use the Lock function and MoveUp/MoveDown, this limits the speed of reaction and also limits the resolution to how far the rail moves between fixedUpdate calls. I can certainly make use of the configurable speed option but I would love a "move by 'x'" function - I think

I am really liking where all this is going. The speed setting is going to be soo useful! One suggestion: a small feature that could be useful would be rotation angle limits. Say you have an object that you only need to rotate 90 degrees max (like engines on a vtol) then you could set the rotation angle, and even if you set the speed to be pretty high, you wont mess up and it will stop rotating at the set angle. I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to implement since the "zero" button kind of does something like that.

Anyways, great work all around! I built a ship using the docking washers and the adjustable rail in another interesting way:

My kind of VTOL, love it

Landing with jets is very difficult due to their wind up and wind down times. Use rockets if you can. And if you can't use rockets then change things so you can use rockets

Only advice I can think of for tail first landings is:

Do not let the nose drop. Never. Ever. You don't need to keep it pointing upwards just keep it above the level of the tail as once it drops below the level of the tail it can be very difficult to get it back up.

Only use the engines you need to use, these should be the tail engines and you should have sufficient thrust to kill your vertical speed.

Only use the tail engines to kill your vertical speed. The Kerban atmosphere will take care of your horizontal speed. Once you get the hang of things you can start trying for precision landings.

So, just let the ship fall tail first from the sky. Keep the nose up. Aim for vertical about 2km off the ground iirc.

290t with only 9 RCS units iirc...

From http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33503-Show-off-your-B9-Designs!?p=508910&viewfull=1#post508910

The big benefit I have here is the length of the vessel. RCS is more effective when far away from the CoM.

I can make a vid of that one landing if you think it will help. Meanwhile, here's a little 90t ship I was experimenting with a while back... Skip to around 2:50 for the start of the landing.

I love these big ship tail first landings, they look so improbable but can be so graceful

[ZodiusInfuser]

This mod is great!!

I've got so many ideas for contraptions to make now using the washers, rails and upcoming hinges

Regarding other possible parts, have you considered a rotatable housing, where an outer cylinder rotates (either via servo or freely) around a central shaft. I could imagine this being good for adding spinning mid sections to space craft, without having to use two free washers and potentially have the front and back of your craft rotate out of alignment. Also, will a version of the adjustable rails be made that stick out straight from a surface (like a girder)? Perhaps ones that fit into a surface the same way that ladders do?

When playing around with these parts, I found an issue with the free-spinning docking washer (didn't try the others). If you place a capsule (such as the cupola) on top of one, and add rockomax engines to make it spin, the IVA view of the capsule doesn't spin with it . This is quite odd, and is the only issue I could find with these parts. Maybe others have seen this too?

Thanks!

[sirkut]

This mod is great!!

I've got so many ideas for contraptions to make now using the washers, rails and upcoming hinges

Regarding other possible parts, have you considered a rotatable housing, where an outer cylinder rotates (either via servo or freely) around a central shaft. I could imagine this being good for adding spinning mid sections to space craft, without having to use two free washers and potentially have the front and back of your craft rotate out of alignment. Also, will a version of the adjustable rails be made that stick out straight from a surface (like a girder)? Perhaps ones that fit into a surface the same way that ladders do?

When playing around with these parts, I found an issue with the free-spinning docking washer (didn't try the others). If you place a capsule (such as the cupola) on top of one, and add rockomax engines to make it spin, the IVA view of the capsule doesn't spin with it . This is quite odd, and is the only issue I could find with these parts. Maybe others have seen this too?

Thanks!

How big would this rotating housing be? I am in the process of making a smaller rotatron that isn't a docking washer.

I've attached small rockets to the free moving docking washer and it rotated fine. How are you attaching it?

[BahamutoD]

So, just let the ship fall tail first from the sky. Keep the nose up. Aim for vertical about 2km off the ground iirc.

I'm going for style points since I have those rotating engines, which I feel obligated to use haha. This is the landing profile I want to do:

[drtedastro]

Just what I have been looking for. Let me know when these rotating engines and control are ready...

And nice art work... Exactly like I do.......

Cheers.

[Reddot99]

I'll release it if I can get it fully working. At the moment it's single axis only and I've not tested any kind of part rotation, but this is all I need so, we'll see. I'm dreading any 3d transforms as I do not posses such occult knowledge, neither do I have sufficient virgin chickens to make the sacrifice to gain such knowledge.

I might be able to help with the 3d transformations. (An acceptable solution is far simpler than one would think, remember an ever-helpful motto of engineering/general design: "Keep it simple, stupid.").

[KeithStone]

Thank you so much for working on this! I love the new sliding hydraulics, and cant wait to have new hinges! So many cranes to build....

[Pigbear]

I am really liking where all this is going. The speed setting is going to be soo useful! One suggestion: a small feature that could be useful would be rotation angle limits. Say you have an object that you only need to rotate 90 degrees max (like engines on a vtol) then you could set the rotation angle, and even if you set the speed to be pretty high, you wont mess up and it will stop rotating at the set angle. I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to implement since the "zero" button kind of does something like that.

Anyways, great work all around! I built a ship using the docking washers and the adjustable rail in another interesting way:

Do want. 10/10

[Sinner2784]

how do i get these mechjeb2 looking servo-control window?

[TinyPirate]

Sirkut, I love the look of this mod, but I find the OP really confusing. I know I want to install ALL THE ROBOTIC PARatS ANYWHERE but I can't work out what I am meant to download from the OP, what I need to edit, do I need to install other parts/mods? Are any mutually exclusive? I R DERP.

[sirkut]

Sirkut, I love the look of this mod, but I find the OP really confusing. I know I want to install ALL THE ROBOTIC PARatS ANYWHERE but I can't work out what I am meant to download from the OP, what I need to edit, do I need to install other parts/mods? Are any mutually exclusive? I R DERP.

I'll revise the OP soon but here's the deal. The only thing you need to download is this: http://www./download/21p0bww3ocp9pvp/MagicSmokeIndustries.zip

This has the plugin (delete the old damned robotics or any other version of infernal robotics you have) and it also has the parts until I release the hinges which will be tomorrow. I got a new computer so I had to set that up.

[sirkut]

Actually if you want to use the old Damned Robotic hinges follow the tutorial at the end of the OP. You will be required to edit CFGs.

[TinyPirate]

Ahh. I think I follow. I am fine with the deer robotic parts I have see. Not particularly welded to the original DR bits. Thanks for the reply!

[bs1110101]

Can you please make strong, flat hinges for engine vectoring and such?

[sirkut]

Can you please make strong, flat hinges for engine vectoring and such?

skinny ones that are longer than what is pictured?

[ZodiusInfuser]

How big would this rotating housing be? I am in the process of making a smaller rotatron that isn't a docking washer.

I've attached small rockets to the free moving docking washer and it rotated fine. How are you attaching it?

Hi sirkut,

The thought I was having for the rotating housing is a set of inline parts the size of the inline RCS tanks, so 0.75, 1.25, and 2.5 sizes. Probably a similar height too. The key thing with these is that they allow radially mounted parts to be rotated around the central body of a rocket. Because they are inline they would fit in with normal rocket construction and could be stacked, to have contra-rotating mechanisms.

As for the bug, i've done a test with a tank, washer, cupola, and radial rockomax' and it's fine if the cupola is the root (behaves as expected). But if the tank is the root then the IVA of the cupola won't spin when the part does.

Thanks

[ecat]

that is some serious plugin you had there, i imagine we can build sci-fi like thing not even bothered about com and cot

Thank you, this is part of the idea though there will always be limitations. My first test design used big fuel tanks on the sides and I'm puzzling as to why it was always flipping out above a certain height... Doh! The rail is only so long, I was running out of travel.

There are also caveats. At the moment to make an engine even close to x4 physics safe it must be mounted directly to the rail, using a cubic or any other structural part in-between allows the physics to twist the engine off centre - I do not think this can be fixed which is a shame as the only way to mount a stock engine to the rail is by 'surface attachment' for which iirc you need to use the Editor Extensions mod, it also looks odd as the engine appears half buried in the underlying fuel tank.

So, not perfect and certainly not a panacea.

I'm going for style points since I have those rotating engines, which I feel obligated to use haha. This is the landing profile I want to do:

Haha! Got ya.

Guess I was confused by all those big engines.

[Reddot99]

Thank you, this is part of the idea though there will always be limitations. My first test design used big fuel tanks on the sides and I'm puzzling as to why it was always flipping out above a certain height... Doh! The rail is only so long, I was running out of travel.

There are also caveats. At the moment to make an engine even close to x4 physics safe it must be mounted directly to the rail, using a cubic or any other structural part in-between allows the physics to twist the engine off centre - I do not think this can be fixed which is a shame as the only way to mount a stock engine to the rail is by 'surface attachment' for which iirc you need to use the Editor Extensions mod, it also looks odd as the engine appears half buried in the underlying fuel tank.

My first thought was move the center of mass, rather than thrust, though that always would add more mass. Having a set of moving counterweights in addition to the 'engine(s) on a rail' system might do the trick though. Say that kethane mining ship you first showed, way up at the front, you place two rails, extending outward, and attach a heavy converter to each, (Or a full tank of kethane, that'd do the trick too). Each rail would allow you to adjust the center of mass further along that axis, which can make up for not being able to move the engine alone far enough to line thrust and mass up.

[TinyPirate]

So, I ripped out all my other robotics parts and installed as instructed. Made a nice boom on a satellite (no good reason for it, just wanted to be a bit robotic) and it all worked swimingly. Here are some shots with the 8k Kerbin replacement.

[viperwolf]

So, I ripped out all my other robotics parts and installed as instructed. Made a nice boom on a satellite (no good reason for it, just wanted to be a bit robotic) and it all worked swimingly. Here are some shots with the 8k Kerbin replacement.

What mod is the dish from?

[TinyPirate]

AIES - might be on page 2 or 3 or 4 now. The mod works for 21 so long as you install the configs on page 26 of that thread.

[viperwolf]

AIES - might be on page 2 or 3 or 4 now. The mod works for 21 so long as you install the configs on page 26 of that thread.

Ok thank you

[ecat]

I might be able to help with the 3d transformations. (An acceptable solution is far simpler than one would think, remember an ever-helpful motto of engineering/general design: "Keep it simple, stupid.").

Many thanks for the offer

My first thought was move the centre of mass, rather than thrust, though that always would add more mass. Having a set of moving counterweights in addition to the 'engine(s) on a rail' system might do the trick though. Say that kethane mining ship you first showed, way up at the front, you place two rails, extending outward, and attach a heavy converter to each, (Or a full tank of kethane, that'd do the trick too). Each rail would allow you to adjust the center of mass further along that axis, which can make up for not being able to move the engine alone far enough to line thrust and mass up.

That would work if you had the extra mass available, rails front/back, left/right, top/bottom are possible. It's certainly worth considering as a supplement to variable CoT and maybe a preferred solution in our real world. The most efficient source of extra mass comes in the form of fuel tanks and this is where the problem could become tricky.

In a static situation, one where you are not burning fuel, it's quite simple to manually balance the fuel load. The ship from the previous post http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/37707-0-21-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics?p=576307&viewfull=1#post576307 has fuel tanks front and rear and a set of tanks you cannot see on the bottom to allow for static balancing when driving over the surface of a moon - keep the CoM low and balance the front and rear for level 'flight' between bumps.

In a dynamic situation when you are burning fuel it's the same fuel that you are using for your counterweights. So you need to not only adjust the position of the counterweights but also come up with some plan as to which fuel tanks to empty first. If you want to enable time warp while running the engines you need to implement this counterweight+fuel balancing strategy in software which could become complicated. And for a general solution applicable to many different ship designs the complications multiply many times over (I'm guessing).

The problem may become much more simple if, as you say, the counterweights consist of fixed mass items, though don't necessarily consider Kethane tanks as fixed mass. The ship above can run the centre engine and Kethane converter at the same time, effectively running off kethane.