Why Duna is like Mars and Eve isn't like Venus ?

[Frogbull]

When we compare Kerbin and Earth, Duna and Mars or Mun and Moon. The resemblance is close.

But when we compare Eve and Venus, they are not really similar.

Venus is smaller than Earth <=> Eve is bigger than Kerbin.

Venus is a very hot planet <=> Eve looks like a cold planet.

The only real commonality is the extremely dense atmosphere.

To get an idea, I've modelised Venus with 3DS Max (free textures from textures.forrest.cz)

And here, Eve from the Wiki

What is your opinion about it ?

For my part, I think Eve should look like Venus (the old version of Eve could be reused in another solar system, so the work will not be lost ).

[MBobrik]

because, I guess, a realistic venus analog would be just too dull for KSP.

[The Jedi Master]

Maybe it's a very primitive Venus?

[OtherDalfite]

I don't know, I've never really seen the color purple relating to cold things, unless of course you're talking about frostbite. You know Iodine, the purple liquid that stains you're fingers? Imagine Eve being hot enough to boil all that Iodine and turn it into an atmosphere. Also, imagine the oceans as liquid Gallium or Silver, whichever you prefer. I guess I've always thought it was hot not only because of that, but because Plasma is purple too. Just my 2 cents.

[Katve]

Why there are Minmus then? Why that green jupiter has Mun with oceans and atmosphere. I don't meant to disrespect you, but this is only game that is set in fictional universe.

[Frogbull]

because, I guess, a realistic venus analog would be just too dull for KSP.

It's like Hell, not boring at all, infernal wind, stifling atmosphere, volcanic activity, very rough terrain.

A Venus analogous would be a real challenge (hard to land, hard to survive, very hard to get back)

[OtherDalfite]

-snip-

It's like Hell, not boring at all, infernal wind, stifling atmosphere, volcanic activity, very rough terrain.

A Venus analogous would be a real challenge (hard to land, hard to survive, very hard to get back)

I think he meant in the fact that Venus would be terribly foggy. But yes, a clear-view Venus would be pretty cool. The lava flows on Eve provide for some interesting visuals.

[jwenting]

tbh we have really no clue what the surface of Venus looks like. Only some radar images and a few very poor pictures from the Soviet probes taken in very small areas just before they melted.

[Tw1]

Eve is like Venus, but different. Thick atmo, and it's hot down there. I like the variation though, it's not just a copy of our own solar system. Radiation and weather might be challenge enough landing, and long-term stays.

[dahud]

I find Eve to be very similar to Venus.

• It's in the same size domain as Kerbin.
  
• It's very hot. Check a thermometer the next time you're there, and those look like seas of molten metal to me.
  
• It has a very thick, soupy atmosphere. (Fun fact: the later Soviet Venera landers used a wide metal disc as a drag brake during the final landing, instead of a parachute.)
  
• If you land there, you're not coming home.
  

Now that I'm thinking about it, the overall structure of the Kerbol system falls very nicely into place with Sol. Might be cool if it did some stuff a bit different, but oh well.

Edited June 27, 2013 by dahud
Fact-checked on the Venera landers, and fixed errors.

[joppiesaus]

I think Eve isn't looking cold. Purple oceans must be so hot...

[MBobrik]

I think he meant in the fact that Venus would be terribly foggy.

The real venus in visible spectrum is just a near-featureless white-gray orb from above. Then just milky fog of the H2SO4 clouds, and on the bottom, perpetual reddish hazy twilight that limits the visibility to a few km. you would have to land very near a volcanic vent to actually see anything.

.

EDIT: and venus volcanoes look rather dull too. Just large and flat shield volcanoes calmly pouring out lava.

Edited June 27, 2013 by MBobrik

[Frogbull]

Why there are Minmus then? Why that green jupiter has Mun with oceans and atmosphere. I don't meant to disrespect you, but this is only game that is set in fictional universe.

For me (my point of view), Minmus is a giant asteroid captured by Kerbin. IRL many giant asteroids often pass close to Earth and NASA has already thought to land probes on such bodies.

So, Minmus is a "training asteroid"; I don't like its orbit (too circular) but the idea is good.

And yes, KSP has a fictional universe (I don't ask for real planets) and I agreed with that (if I want high realism, I can play Orbiter) but I prefer a Kerbol System close to the real Solar System.

"Customs" planets/moons will be great for other systems.

I think he meant in the fact that Venus would be terribly foggy. But yes, a clear-view Venus would be pretty cool. The lava flows on Eve provide for some interesting visuals.

Yeah, not hyper realist, a nice volcanic planet with Hell conditions, it has to be playable.

tbh we have really no clue what the surface of Venus looks like. Only some radar images and a few very poor pictures from the Soviet probes taken in very small areas just before they melted.

You're right about the surface, we do not know much about it. But we know a lot about the atmosphere color, the composition of the atmosphere, the volcanic activity and the dangerous winds.

So, yeah, we don't know enought to make a perfect virtual Venus, but we know enought to imagine a similar planet.

[dahud]

I don't think I've ever seen any mountains of significant size on Eve. It might not be geologically active.

[Frogbull]

I don't think I've ever seen any mountains of significant size on Eve. It might not be geologically active.

Yeah, Eve looks like a dead Venus but... as close to the Sun, if the magnetic field stops, the atmosphere should be swept; it's not the case.

[Ralathon]

tbh we have really no clue what the surface of Venus looks like. Only some radar images and a few very poor pictures from the Soviet probes taken in very small areas just before they melted.

We can infer a lot of things about venusian surface from those limited data points though. We know it is relatively crater free and we can see loads of lava flows. So we know the surface periodically refreshes itself via volcanism and is made of basalt. The sovjet probes detected massive lightning storms while going down and detected rain made of sulphuric acid. We know windspeeds are ridiculously high, like a constant hurricane. And we know there is no liquid present on the surface (again via radio images).

All in all, it is a pretty bad place to live... Venus is a terrible, terrible place.

As for the similarities between Eve and Venus, why should there be? The game world is fictional. It might look like Mars or earth on a superficial level, but they all have significant differences with their equivalents in our solar system. Mars has 2 very small moons instead of being tidally locked with 1 big one. Duna's poles are also much much bigger than Mars's. And last I checked we only have 1 moon, not 2.

[TheThing345]

Actually Eve isn't cold at all.

It's around 150 degrees hot at sea level.

Also devs are planning to actually let you feel that hotness, as in a superheated atmosphere. (engines extremely overheating)

[Frogbull]

All in all, it is a pretty bad place to live... Venus is a terrible, terrible place.

This is what I like in the idea. Hard challenge to land on it and harder challenge to get back from this hell.

As for the similarities between Eve and Venus, why should there be? The game world is fictional. It might look like Mars or earth on a superficial level, but they all have significant differences with their equivalents in our solar system. Mars has 2 very small moons instead of being tidally locked with 1 big one. Duna's poles are also much much bigger than Mars's. And last I checked we only have 1 moon, not 2.

Kerbin is the Earth analogue

Moho is the Mercury analogue

Duna is the Mars analogue

Mun is the Moon analogue

Dres is the Ceres analogue

Jool is the Jupiter analogue and its moons are analogues to Galilean moons (4:2:1 resonance)

No Callisto analogue atm; but it might be added after.

SQUAD will soon add gas giant planets; I'm the only one who thinks they will be similar to Saturn, Uranus and Neptune ?

I have nothing against the idea of ​​original planets with strange conditions, but I like the idea for other systems (Planetary system with multiple suns, polar moons, blackholes, etc.) than the Kerbol system.

For me the Kerbol system should looks like our solar system, not as a clone, but close enough. In order to have the feeling that we visit our real Solar system.

But for other systems, I'm for a complete freedom to the imagination.

Actually Eve isn't cold at all.

It's around 150 degrees hot at sea level.

I know, I land on it, I said "looks like"; cause for me a purple planet isn't hot (but it can be discussed, like OtherDalfite demonstrated in his post).

Edited June 27, 2013 by Frogbull

[dragoncannon]

Why there are Minmus then? Why that green jupiter has Mun with oceans and atmosphere. I don't meant to disrespect you, but this is only game that is set in fictional universe.

Jupiter and Saturn DO have moons with liquids on the surface and atmosphere (Titan, Europa, etc)

Edited June 27, 2013 by dragoncannon
NINJAED

[N_Molson]

Remember that we don't have clouds yet. A Venus-type planet like Eve should look much better with a nice thick global cover of clouds, with if possible infernal storms and acid rains into it . And yes, the temperature should be enough to burn a standard parachute in a few seconds. But the worst is about cooling : radiators are inefficient and even draw more heat in such a hot environnment. It's quite a though problem that makes should make a Kermanned landing very unlikely. Maybe robotic rovers with very expensive components able to operate and exploit some resources in such hot environnements could be an option. It would also be interesting to have extremely valuable resources there (like exotic minerals vomitted by fiery volcanoes), to reward the effort of getting there.

Edited June 27, 2013 by N_Molson

[Bekiekutmoar]

There are indeed some differences between Eve and Venus; apart from the color also the thickness of the atmosphere. Eve has 5 bar on sea-level, Venus a whopping 92 bar ... ! I think the devs didn't implemented a similar atmosphere on Eve for gameplay-reasons; descending would take ages and ascending would be virtually out of the question.

A dense cloud-cover, occasional lightning, acid rain, and dangerous heat would make Eve a lot more aggressive. From the sound of things this is a WIP.

[Motokid600]

What about the upper atmosphere? I remember reading something about a city that could float on the dense atmosphere. And apparently the conditions up there are... practical.

[NeoMorph]

I was landing on the Mun last night and coming in to land at my Munar Mining Outpost when I thought "Hey, these textures really confuse distance". They look like you are REALLY close to the ground when you are actually many kilometres above the ground.

Then I saw this post and thought "Hmmmmm.... I wonder if the devs will ever update the ground textures so that it can give us a better perspective regarding to distance and maybe make the terrain more interesting at the same time." I'm just hoping that they have this on the roadmap because Flight Simulator X has wayyyyyyyy better ground texturing as default than KSP and FSX came out seven years ago. It would make exploring a LOT more rewarding.

Oh yeah... and add a lot of hidden things that can only be found by exploring... not by scanning (except at close range).

[Pachi3080]

remember that this is not our solar sistem. Kerbals are aliens, not humans...

"Hey, these textures really confuse distance". They look like you are REALLY close to the ground when you are actually many kilometres above the ground.

That's exactly what happens in a real moon landing.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Pachi3080

[OtherDalfite]

remember that this is not our solar sistem. Kerbals are aliens, not humans...

While that may be true, KSP's solar system has been based off our own. That calls for some comparability between the planets. I really hadn't thought about what Eve would look like with clouds, as I've become so accustomed to it's current look.