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[0.20.x] Subassembly Manager

TheUndeadFish

By TheUndeadFish
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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MedievalNerd

MedievalNerd

Posted
Posted
No, it always checks just the root part.

As I've said numerous times, subassemblies are the same thing as when you detach a part of your craft and leave it hanging as a ghost. No matter the configuration of the ghost, you will only ever be able to attach it back with the part you detached it with.

Which is way I love being able to use the rootpart mod. Then you can assemble a whole probe, with it's fairings and all and just move the root part to the base fairing and save it as a whole. In my mind it makes the whole sub assemblies even more useful. I guess it depends on how you design your crafts.

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p1t1o

p1t1o

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Posted
I still haven't gotten to use the 0.22 subassembly feature (keeps telling me "nowhere to attach" or something), so I can't say whether it's better. I knew what I was doing with this one at least.

I just tried the submanager today as well and the same thing happened to me:

I was like "attach this MuthaBlubba!" and stuck the part on my rocket, clicked it back off and tried the submanager again and it worked fine.

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lipatden

lipatden

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Posted
There's one thing that this mod has over the stock implementation, which, in some circumstances, can be vitally important:

You can grab the root part to be the subassembly root. With stock implementation, you can't.

I seriously have zero idea what you people are smoking.

You can grab anything and make it a subassembly. It follows the same basic rules, it just has to be attachable to something. That means having a free attachment node, or an available attachment surface.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqdclhux59xlwj5/Free_Nodes_But_Can_Be_Subassembly.bmp

This has free connection node top & bottom, except the root part. Can't be a sub assembly.

You have to have at least 1 connection node free on your root part. Silly goose.

Same craft but without the docking port on the root part (thus having 1 free connection node on the root part) and it can be a sub assembly. You can see if the craft can be a sub assembly by Shift clicking to move the whole thing. If you don't see any connection nodes you won't be able to make a sub assembly with it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ja286zddfzqgdzq/Without_Docking_Port.bmp

Using the root part selection mod though, you can have any design as a subassembly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mras8c25g1lg7ow/Root_Part_Moved.bmp

You're applying the plugin's logic to the in-game feature - they're different.

Yes, on the plugin the behaviour is as described, and your screenshots do in fact show what the plugin would reject.

If there is no free node (you've picked up the root), the in-game feature makes a new attachment node for you. Try it.

MedievalNerd posted a pic of him actually dropping the part on the subassembly area, you've got shots of, um, picking up some parts (and not even on the subassembly page in one image...). Show screen-shots how this fails and help us all learn (and encourage Squad to enhance their product).

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Sean Mirrsen

Sean Mirrsen

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Posted
<snip>
I am not quite sure who you're replying to, but I'll assume that's me.

Okay, so.

I don't know how the plugin's logic works, or rather I don't remember because I don't have it on hand.

Right now, this is how the ingame implementation works:

If you grab any part other than your craft's root part, you disconnect a "ghost", of all the parts attached to the part you grabbed, with that part being the "root" of the ghost.

Regardless of other circumstances, if you have detached this part somehow, then by definition it has a means of being attached. Therefore, any "ghost" disconnected in this way will be accepted as a subassembly.

If you grab the craft's root part, however, you cannot actually attach it to anything. By sheer definition of being a root part, it can only have things be attached to it.

However, the game is smart enough to know you want to save the craft as a subassembly whole. It checks the root part for active connection nodes, and if it finds them, it determines that the whole craft will be able to attach to something else.

But this is where the game's logic fails. The root part is only tested for open stack nodes, which are two-way connections. It's not checked for the part's surfAttach node, which is used for surface attachment, and thus you can have a situation where your booster rocket, having a fuel tank or fuselage as its root, cannot be saved as a subassembly - because despite having a free surface attachment node, it is not checked for it. This is a bug, which Squad can likely fix in short order.

Now, there is the matter of the mod that MedievalNerd speaks of, which changes the root part of the craft. It is absolutely unrelated to the mechanics by which the subassemblies are determined to be acceptable or not, as it changes the root part, and therefore allows a part with free stack nodes to be selected as the root - therefore bypassing the problem with surfAttach nodes. Once a different part has been selected as the root, the same mechanics and problems will apply to it. Presumably, as I haven't actually tested the root-switching mod yet. I probably should. :P

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MedievalNerd

MedievalNerd

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But this is where the game's logic fails. The root part is only tested for open stack nodes, which are two-way connections. It's not checked for the part's surfAttach node, which is used for surface attachment, and thus you can have a situation where your booster rocket, having a fuel tank or fuselage as its root, cannot be saved as a subassembly - because despite having a free surface attachment node, it is not checked for it. This is a bug, which Squad can likely fix in short order.

Now, there is the matter of the mod that MedievalNerd speaks of, which changes the root part of the craft. It is absolutely unrelated to the mechanics by which the subassemblies are determined to be acceptable or not, as it changes the root part, and therefore allows a part with free stack nodes to be selected as the root - therefore bypassing the problem with surfAttach nodes. Once a different part has been selected as the root, the same mechanics and problems will apply to it. Presumably, as I haven't actually tested the root-switching mod yet. I probably should. :P

Yeah, I'm basically "cheating" myself around the issue you described. I thought this was a natural limitation since both the subassembly mod & the now stock subassembly mechanics work the same way. Also, since when you shift click a structure only root part connection nodes will show as "connectable" it further made me think that this is an engine limitation.

But if it's a bug and a stock functionality should allow to save sub-assemblies where the root part has it's stack nodes filled, then yeah we should write a bug about it. I just don't know if it's working as intended.

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Sparker

Sparker

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Posted
The built-in one allows surface-attached subassemblies. Please check whatever you are smoking for impurities and look again. Anything you take off from a surface, will be attachable back to a surface.

Oups, I've made a mistake. I wanted to say that in the built-in subassembly manager you can't save subassemblies with occupied attach nodes of the root part even if the root part is surface-attachable. In the subassembly manager discussed in this topic you will be warned, but you will manage to save it anyway.

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Sean Mirrsen

Sean Mirrsen

Posted
Posted

Warned, be capable of saving, but will it still load and attach afterwards? I'm guessing yes, but I don't remember anymore. I'm using the built-in system, it works pretty much perfect for me. ^_^

Except of course that bug, but ultimately it rarely ever bothers me. Just need to exercise a bit of forethought if designing a subassembly booster or spaceplane.

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  • 1 month later...
ouch

ouch

Posted
Posted

Is this going to be updated for .23? The button is longer appears in the corner.

The stock subassembly doesn't read into directories like this one does. Which means I can categorize my assemblies, where as the stock one I have to sift through 100's of them...

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Hyomoto

Hyomoto

Posted
Posted

A workaround? Use a naming scheme. I categorize them by mission, then by type and finally a designation or name. OPM-S1-1 is a stage-1 from the Operation Mun project. Now all my OPM parts show up, get categorized by stage and lastly by which one it actually is. Folders is obviously a bit cleaner, but depending on how heavily you rely on subassemblies, this shouldn't be horrific.

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drtedastro

drtedastro

Posted
Posted

While there are many ways to get around the problem of not having this mod working, none are very likable, at least to me. I 'love' this mod and used it extensively in .22

I, for one, certainly hope that it can be resurrected and be brought back into mainstream for .23 and on.....

Keeping my fingers crossed....

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g0tchas

g0tchas

Posted
Posted
While there are many ways to get around the problem of not having this mod working, none are very likable, at least to me. I 'love' this mod and used it extensively in .22

I, for one, certainly hope that it can be resurrected and be brought back into mainstream for .23 and on.....

Keeping my fingers crossed....

I agree. The in-built Subassemplies is awful. There is no scrollbar once you have more components than what can be listed on screen and even if it did, you would have to scroll through them to find the landers between your lifters between your probes. This mod is far better than the in-built one.

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Helix935

Helix935

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Posted
I agree. The in-built Subassemplies is awful. There is no scrollbar once you have more components than what can be listed on screen and even if it did, you would have to scroll through them to find the landers between your lifters between your probes. This mod is far better than the in-built one.

of course the stock system doesn't because it has an arrow at the bottom and i know that i could use organization but it is a good start for Squad

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  • 7 months later...
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