KSP doesn't like your omnipotence shenanigans!

[Deadweasel]

I'm used to it now, but has anybody else ever noticed how the game can sometimes be outright stubborn with you when you're trying to do something that's a normal feature of the game?

• Cannot switch vessels while in atmosphere
  
• Cannot switch vessels while about to crash
  
• Cannot warp while vessel is under acceleration
  
• Cannot switch vessels while current vessel is throttled-up
  
• Cannot warp while taking a dump
  
• Cannot switch vessels while vegetables remain un-eaten
  

-wait, I made those last two up...

At least "Hatch is obstructed, can't exit" makes sense!

[Whirligig Girl]

Yes I agree that something should be done about thins. I mean, you can only switch to vessels within 2.5 km anyway, so the atmosphere problem shouldn't exist. Accelerationw apr I agree with, but Throttle up when there is no acceleration anyway? Like if you have no engine?

[Deadweasel]

Yes I agree that something should be done about thins. I mean, you can only switch to vessels within 2.5 km anyway, so the atmosphere problem shouldn't exist. Accelerationw apr I agree with, but Throttle up when there is no acceleration anyway? Like if you have no engine?

Yes, exactly! I was told today while driving a rover that I couldn't switch away because the throttle had been accidentally bumped up a hair, even though it couldn't have any influence on the rover anyway (the wheels were in rover mode, not throttle mode). In a way, it feels a bit like the cellphone-while-driving laws in the US: totally redundant.

• Can't switch vessels while moving over the surface
  

GAH!!

Sometimes it feels almost arbitrary as to why the game WON'T let you do something, like it's just spinning a roulette wheel behind the scenes and randomly deciding how it's going to annoy the crap out of you this time.

[Guest]

• Cannot switch vessels while in atmosphere Gotta fry where you're at.
  
• Cannot switch vessels while about to crash Nope. Radical disassembly is a spectacle to behold.
  
• Cannot warp while vessel is under acceleration What, you want an autopilot?
  
• Cannot switch vessels while current vessel is throttled-up See previous snarky response.
  
• Cannot warp while taking a dump Dude. TV Guide will wait.
  
• Cannot switch vessels while vegetables remain un-eaten Broccoli. How do you think you got to the previous complaint?
  

[And it still wants 10 characters??]

[Whackjob]

I can understand why. I think. It's the same reason you don't speed up time with a big construct. Physics freaks out and kerbal chunks fly everywhere.

[The Jedi Master]

No nearby objects to switch to. Use map mode to select distant ones.

WHEN THERE IS A MARKER IN THE DISTANCE.

[Deadweasel]

@Jack Wolfe: There goes my lemonade, and you owe me a new keyboard.

[Guest]

• Cannot warp while taking a dump
  

Well, you can, but KSP cannot be held responsible for the results of such an action.

[Crown]

I would assume that the game saves the current control settings such as throttle, stage lock and such.

When you load a vessel (aka switching to it), first the model is loaded then the physics come in. When the throttle is up it might be possible that the engines want to fire before the physics are loaded. But the physics are needed to calculate what speed, alt, AP, PE, etc. the vessel has while throttle is up. So this might a safety setting to be sure that the vessel and it's parameters don't change while loading it.

I don't know how the unloading work. But I think it's about the same but backwards. Unload physics, save orbit parameters, unload vessel. Acceleration, during re-entry it's called deceleration (it's the same but negative) changes the orbit parameters the same way as a throttled-up engine does. And because "while in atmosphere" adds friction and deceleration to a plane it makes - in this case - totally sense.

Maybe the state "about to crash" needs much calculation to decide which parts will survive and which parts do explode. Interruption them might be problematic to the persistent-file. Or the game doesn't want the player to miss the most important aspect of the game

[Themohawkninja]

The hatch one really doesn't make much sense, when there is nothing for a foot or two around the entire hatch, and yet you still can't get out!

[Deadweasel]

I would assume that the game saves the current control settings such as throttle, stage lock and such.

When you load a vessel (aka switching to it), first the model is loaded then the physics come in. When the throttle is up it might be possible that the engines want to fire before the physics are loaded. But the physics are needed to calculate what speed, alt, AP, PE, etc. the vessel has while throttle is up. So this might a safety setting to be sure that the vessel and it's parameters don't change while loading it.

I don't know how the unloading work. But I think it's about the same but backwards. Unload physics, save orbit parameters, unload vessel. Acceleration, during re-entry it's called deceleration (it's the same but negative) changes the orbit parameters the same way as a throttled-up engine does. And because "while in atmosphere" adds friction and deceleration to a plane it makes - in this case - totally sense.

Maybe the state "about to crash" needs much calculation to decide which parts will survive and which parts do explode. Interruption them might be problematic to the persistent-file. Or the game doesn't want the player to miss the most important aspect of the game

You make a lot of sense here, except in one case to my mind:

Today while moving a small dropship from point-to-point on the Mün, I was slowly gaining altitude and moving laterally about 25m/s. Then I noticed the rover at my destination had gone dark, so I tried to switch to it real quick to turn the lights on, and was presented with the "about to crash" message instead. Umm... I'm on the upward arc of the flight in an airless environment. Bear in mind that the throttle WAS on at the time, but I got "switch-blocked" because I was somehow 'about to crash' even though I was gaining altitude and nothing was in my lateral flight path.

This was the event that got me thinking about other ways the game seems to be a bit irrational in how it decides YOU SHALL NOT PASS this time.

[Deadweasel]

Well, you can, but KSP cannot be held responsible for the results of such an action.

Crappy framerates?

[AustralianFries]

...So is this just a big thread complaining about things that stop you from time warping and switching vehicles?

If you guys want change, I'd recommend you go to the KSP Development section and suggest ideas there.

Edited June 30, 2013 by AustralianFries

[Guest]

@Jack Wolfe: There goes my lemonade, and you owe me a new keyboard.

You're welcome, mate!

[Deadweasel]

...So is this just a big thread complaining about the ability to switch and time warp?

Not precisely as such...

I was simply commenting on the myriad reasons the game has come up with why I can't do something specific, and maybe hoping to evoke some humor and intelligent conversation in the process. Seems to be working so far.

[AustralianFries]

Not precisely as such...

I was simply commenting on the myriad reasons the game has come up with why I can't do something specific, and maybe hoping to evoke some humor and intelligent conversation in the process. Seems to be working so far.

I see. (Sorry to come off sounding sarcastic and kind of rude). Nice to see another Las Vegan on the forum.

[Deadweasel]

I see. (Sorry to come off sounding sarcastic and kind of rude). Nice to see another Las Vegan on the forum.

Oh no worries whatsoever. You'd know if you were dealing with a whining thread if it had been posted in the Bugs section instead. LOL

Also, sweet to see a fellow desert rat on here as well! Funny how easy it gets to assume that you're the ONLY one in an area that is involved with some online event.

[Sir Nahme]

I know right! I can time warp whenever I want in reality!

[AustralianFries]

Oh no worries whatsoever. You'd know if you were dealing with a whining thread if it had been posted in the Bugs section instead. LOL

Also, sweet to see a fellow desert rat on here as well! Funny how easy it gets to assume that you're the ONLY one in an area that is involved with some online event.

Yeah, I've only seen one other person on here from Las Vegas, and that was my friend I showed the game to. But he really doesn't post on the forums anyway.

[Deadweasel]

I know right! I can time warp whenever I want in reality!

I just had a terrifying thought.I hope the people who make the big decisions in the media networks NEVER see this game.

Cannot switch channels while current channel is showing commercial

[Kimberly]

I just had a terrifying thought.I hope the people who make the big decisions in the media networks NEVER see this game.

Good god, what wretched idea have you brought into the mortal plane? Edit it out before anyone sees!

[Merinsan]

When I built my Minmus base, It came with probe landers, which were designed to fly off after, and crash. KSP kept telling me I couldn't switch while about to crash. I kept yelling at it I wanted to crash!

[Lexif]

These limitations make sense if you consider how KSP handles vessels that are not active or while warping (not physics warp). They are put "on rails" and their position is calculated from their orbital elements alone, which remain static. If you are in the atmosphere or throttled up, your orbit changes constantly because you accelarate. So there's no stable orbit to save the vessel to, or the result might be unexpected by the player. As in, if it allows you to switch vessels while burning your engines, people will start complaining that the inactive vessel doesn't continue the burn. Or that they switched back to a throttled up vessel when they forgot about that, and only notice it when they are already on an escape trajectory.

The "about to crash" thing seem to need some improvement, but I guess the intention behind the design is that the save will not happen instantly and might take more than one timestep. So your craft might be saved partially assembled, partially disassembled. It would make a mess.

It seems to all boil down to the fact that the game can only save and warp in a steady, well defined state.

[Lexif]

To add to my previous post: I think there are only five ways to change the trajectory of your vessel. (Except for gravitation, which can be solved by direct calculations and doesn't require more complex physics.)

-When you are in the atmosphere, its drag acts on you.

-When you collide with another vessel.

-When your own vessel disassembles, intentionally or not.

-When you are coliding or otherwise interacting with a planetary surface.

-Or by thrusting with an engine or RCS.

Only for those five events, the KSP engine requires the orientation of your vessel and the relative position of all its parts. For gravitational interaction, you only need the postion and velocity vector of your center of mass with current KSP physics. (No tidal forces.) I guess the "about to crash" warning is related to a check that your trajectory is close to the possible surface of a planet. Consider that you might still crash into a mountain when you're on an upwards trajectory. You might have launched from a valley and could still crash into a nearby mountain while moving upwards.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong!)

[Fel]

You make a lot of sense here, except in one case to my mind:

Today while moving a small dropship from point-to-point on the Mün, I was slowly gaining altitude and moving laterally about 25m/s. Then I noticed the rover at my destination had gone dark, so I tried to switch to it real quick to turn the lights on, and was presented with the "about to crash" message instead. Umm... I'm on the upward arc of the flight in an airless environment. Bear in mind that the throttle WAS on at the time, but I got "switch-blocked" because I was somehow 'about to crash' even though I was gaining altitude and nothing was in my lateral flight path.

This was the event that got me thinking about other ways the game seems to be a bit irrational in how it decides YOU SHALL NOT PASS this time.

Did you establish a low but long "orbital arch", or did you just say "okay I'm going up." Even without air, you're still going to fall back down (I also think the message is a bit dependent on altitude due to rails approximations).

More likely though, it is a safety feature; people probably don't realize how very little time they actually have before the ship starts to land, so it is better to prevent them from leaving the scene.

*Cannot switch vessels while in atmosphere:

Again, likely a safety feature. if you get further than 2.5km away from that vessel, it'll get auto deleted. Rather than deal with the people complaining about losing their ships SQUAD chose to deal with people complaining about people not being able to switch.

*Cannot warp while vessel is under acceleration

*Cannot switch vessels while current vessel is throttled-up

Again, safety features. The only way to guarantee that the engines are off is to make certain the throttle is off; ion engines can turn on / off very rapidly due to electrical generation.

Is it a little redundant? Yes; but no need to fret about it.