Short Hops on the Mun - How to Do It Without Crashing?

[starkllr]

Another question that probably has a straightforward answer, but I'll ask.

I'm trying to build a base on the Mun. I have two landers down already, right next to each other. I landed a third, but I was off target, and it's 1.9 KM away.

I've tried several times to fly it that short distance, resulting in disaster/F9 to try again, every time. I have plenty of fuel (650 m/s worth of delta-V), and a full tank of monopropellant. The lander is small, only 10 tons or so (really, all it's got is a monoprop tank, a 360 capacity fuel tank, a poodle engine, and KAS winches and connectors on all four sides).

Any advice on getting this thing 1,900 meters away from where it is, to where I want it to go, in one piece? Thanks!

[AceMgy]

Any ASAS aboard? This is one of the few instances where it can actually help you. Lock it straight up (important it's vertical) then get a stable hover, then "fight" the ASAS to give yourself a slight amount of horizontal velocity or kill it when you get to your landing target. It's tricky but definitely doable. And it feels awesome to do this hover taxi maneuver for the first time, let me tell you.

[Flixxbeatz]

and this is why I put all my modules (except the main one) on wheels for these types of scenarios...

[Cykyrios]

Try lifting off and immediately banking toward your target, preferably not going too fast, but getting a bit of altitude (200-300 m at most, I'd say).

Then you can point your vessel up and stay off the ground until you reach your target.

Once you're close to it, land normally, and you should be able to get within 50m of it.

After that, it's just a matter of practice.

[Kegereneku]

Practice.

I should cause less stress if you avoid hovering continually and rather go for timed burn (no need for maneuver node).

- Burn for a few second vertically

- Lean 45° in the direction you want to go

- Burn for a few second in this direction while checking on the map if you get close.

- While the ship is sub-orbital, lean in advance in the opposite direction

- Follow the retrograde Marker

- Burn until Horizontal velocity is null (Marker always point upward or downward)

- Land vertically

Sub-orbital hop is also more efficient than continuous burn.

[CaptainKipard]

Actually it may be possible for you to land right next to your other landers without the need to hop. You just need to make good use of your retrograde markers.

So from orbit:

1. Target one of your landers on the ground.

2. Deorbit.

3. Set the point of reference on your navball to "target".

4. Maneuver to get your trajectory to overshoot your target a little bit. Keep in mind Mun rotation under you.

5. Keep falling untill you can clearly see your target retrorade marker. You should be at least several kilometers above the surface by now.

6. Kill most of you lateral speed with an engine burn. You should now be falling mostly vertically

7. Look at your navball and keep your orbit retrograde marker right on top of your target retrograde marker by pointing your level indicator to one side of your orbit retrograde marker. this will make it drift to the opposite side. Basically that means you're traveling straight towards your target.

8. Use RCS translation for fine adjustments.

Apart from this you should of course follow standard landing procedures, velocity control and all that. By using this technique I managed to land today within 10m(!) of my target without touching the ground even once before. Just practice.

[MrTaxman]

Apart from this you should of course follow standard landing procedures, velocity control and all that. By using this technique I managed to land today within 10m(!) of my target without touching the ground even once before. Just practice.

I vote we kick the Mun/Duna/etc landing demi-gods off the forum - they're making the rest of us look bad.

[CaptainKipard]

Thanks for the compliment

I've never frapsed or anything but if I learn how I'll post a video here with detailed instructions.

[Khrissetti]

Alternately, if you've got that much RCS fuel, burn up to about 200m, hover there and navigate using the RCS buttons.

[Rune]

The best tip I can really give you is to practice a lot, but there is a good second-best one you might find also useful, so I'll stick with that one

Fly with the Navball! Seriously, if all the guys you people call pros do it, it must be for something., It's the only way to keep yourself oriented as you move the camera around, and it ends up being very simple. You should learn how to "herd" your prograde/retrograde markers around. For a short suborbital hop you want to take off and lean in the direction you want to travel. You will notice that you prograde marker want to move towards the direction you are pointing while you thrust. When you have a good arc overshooting your target a bit, turn around to look at the retrograde marker. This one goes differently: as you start braking, you will notice that it wants to move away form where you are pointing the ship as you thrust, and it will move faster the farther away from it you point.

So armed with that, and always keeping an eye into the speed indicator to make sure it stays on surface (and reasonably low!), perhaps even targeting something at your destination to have a marker for it in the navball (the pink thingy), all you need to do is to crash a few kerbals around until you get the hang of throttle control as you do all these things. In a few tries, you will notice you start getting better, and after a while you will be able to hover as you automatically kill lateral velocity, and start playing around with suicide burns and 0.1m/s precision landings.

Rune. Practice makes perfection, really.

[Sephta]

there is a small game called Lunar Lander - there you can practice exactly that....

Keep your lander up-right, turn on asas, burn a bit until you go upwards, then hover and steer with the RCS. Keep hovering, until you reach your goal.

Remember: do not exeed speed limit! (which should be around 5m/s )

[starkllr]

OK, I need more help. I have practiced and practiced, and I crash Every.Single.Time. I cannot keep control of my lander. Everything happens too fast and whatever I do to try and help ends up an overreaction, and then crash.

I also haven't mastered the hover maneuver yet - any advice on how to manage that?