[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0 Dev STOPPED

[mendahu]

@Alexw - Some used new rotational gizmo, but others were done using the ole' Q+W method, etc. If it helps, I actually experienced this in 0.25 as well.

@falken - doesn't work either All the wings literally reset to their default orientation they have when you first select the part.

[girka2k]

I'm experiencing a problem using the welder tool to build custom frames out of wing surfaces. After designing a structure and welding it, the welder part looks like this:

..............

It appears as though the orientation settings are not carrying over. The nodes are all in the right places and the parts are rendering right, but the rotation, offset, etc. are gone.

I hope a little later I will have time to look at this

Any chance of getting this onto CKAN? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/100067-The-Comprehensive-Kerbal-Archive-Network-(CKAN)-Package-Manager

I don't sure this is actual at the moment. May be in future... I think AVC integration would be more helpful for now.

Alewx what is your opinion?

BTW myself I use CKAN in my KSP installation

I have been trying to use this mod, but I keep getting weirdness. KSP gets hung up on a file when loading, my camera flies up into space at launch, etc. I'm pretty sure I installed it correctly, but this would help.

I'm pretty sure this mod doesn't affect any scene except EDITOR, so it doesn't involved in any bugs with camera unexpected movements. BTW I experienced something like this in 0.2x with old version of RemoteTech installed...

@Alexw - Some used new rotational gizmo, but others were done using the ole' Q+W method, etc. If it helps, I actually experienced this in 0.25 as well.

@falken - doesn't work either All the wings literally reset to their default orientation they have when you first select the part.

@ALL: Gentelmens, I would be grateful if you could clarify which build of mod (2.1.0 ?) and which version of KSP (0.90 ?) you are using. Additionally, you can provide invaluable help, if you would turn on "Advanced debug" in settings of mod, repeat your experience and will provide KSP.log here

- - - Updated - - -

I'm experiencing a problem using the welder tool to build custom frames out of wing surfaces. After designing a structure and welding it, the welder part looks like this:

............

It appears as though the orientation settings are not carrying over. The nodes are all in the right places and the parts are rendering right, but the rotation, offset, etc. are gone.

Could you provide the craft file please? I could not reproduce this bug in KSP 0.90 using latest build of mod.

[Alewx]

I don't sure this is actual at the moment. May be in future... I think AVC integration would be more helpful for now.

Alewx what is your opinion?

BTW myself I use CKAN in my KSP installation

Hmm I would say the same CKAN is something totally new to me, while AVC seems possible within the next version(s), but no promise.

[girka2k]

Hmm I would say the same CKAN is something totally new to me...

Try it - you should like it! Still buggy but useful anyway.

By the way today it is first time I've got opportunity to try your last build (was little busy by getting some rest ) and I must say I really like your branch selection improvement! I've tried to do something like this but didn't managed to did stably working highlighting

[Alewx]

Try it - you should like it! Still buggy but useful anyway.

By the way today it is first time I've got opportunity to try your last build (was little busy by getting some rest ) and I must say I really like your branch selection improvement! I've tried to do something like this but didn't managed to did stably working highlighting

Thanks, indeed that was quite tricky to do, but I hope it works as intended, the only thing that bugs me is that the attachnode from the selected part is not added to the new part.

[scerion]

Hmm I would say the same CKAN is something totally new to me, while AVC seems possible within the next version(s), but no promise.

CKAN integration I believe can be done automagically if you're uploading to KerbalStuff

[mendahu]

I'll do a test case tonight and see if I can reproduce. I've got a number of other mods so it could be related to that. Thanks for the support, stay tuned.

[bahumutx13]

Anyone welding B9 HX parts (the giant ones) in 0.90 having issues? The hx_size3_universal fuel/structure tanks have been giving me problems. Basically I'm trying to weld multiple parts with modules in them and I'm only seeing the module change for one of the parts. So welding 4 tanks together...FSmeshSwitch lets me switch from structure to fuel tanks and only 1 of the 4 change. Hope this makes sense, let me know otherwise or if any files will help. Thanks

[Borisbee]

CKAN integration should be trivial. It requires nothing special, just telling the repository where to grab the file.

[mendahu]

Ok, so I spent some time recreating the Shuttle frame (I wanted to improve it anyway and did a before and after to show you the results.

Welder v2.1.0

KSP 0.90

Before:

After:

Craft File (I think it contains Infernal Robotics, Tweakscale, and Procedural Parts):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzps2C9b6S-7RmQtMVV5a1hUd1U/view?usp=sharing (unwelded)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzps2C9b6S-7Z2czRG9CcWI1bUk/view?usp=sharing (welded)

KSP Log (contains two welds. I did one as it was here, attached radially to the MK3 cockpit, and once with it attached inline with the MK3 cockpit, just in case there was a difference. There wasn't.):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzps2C9b6S-7S25zS3l5cnlQM1U/view?usp=sharing

Part File (Welded):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzps2C9b6S-7LTFHVURRa1k0UVU/view?usp=sharing

Final notes:

1. I tried a smaller test file with about 15 parts, in various rotations, etc., and it welded fine. Is there something up with welding this many parts at once? It's 233 parts.

2. Some of the rotations were maintained...I can see some of the parts are slightly shifted as I had made them, but it seems like nothing lined up lengthwise

3. Besides the wings (all stock), I'm welding two monopropellant tanks, four solar panels, and a number of i-beams. Don't know if that has anything to do with it. There are no control surfaces.

Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated!

-mendahu

www.ksphistory.com

[Alewx]

Anyone welding B9 HX parts (the giant ones) in 0.90 having issues? The hx_size3_universal fuel/structure tanks have been giving me problems. Basically I'm trying to weld multiple parts with modules in them and I'm only seeing the module change for one of the parts. So welding 4 tanks together...FSmeshSwitch lets me switch from structure to fuel tanks and only 1 of the 4 change. Hope this makes sense, let me know otherwise or if any files will help. Thanks

That is because Firespitter works in a way that is not compatible with welding.

[girka2k]

Ok, so I spent some time recreating the Shuttle frame (I wanted to improve it anyway and did a before and after to show you the results.

Welder v2.1.0

KSP 0.90

(skip)

Craft File (I think it contains Infernal Robotics, Tweakscale, and Procedural Parts):

(skip)

KSP Log (contains two welds. I did one as it was here, attached radially to the MK3 cockpit, and once with it attached inline with the MK3 cockpit, just in case there was a difference. There wasn't.):

(skip)

Final notes:

1. I tried a smaller test file with about 15 parts, in various rotations, etc., and it welded fine. Is there something up with welding this many parts at once? It's 233 parts.

2. Some of the rotations were maintained...I can see some of the parts are slightly shifted as I had made them, but it seems like nothing lined up lengthwise

3. Besides the wings (all stock), I'm welding two monopropellant tanks, four solar panels, and a number of i-beams. Don't know if that has anything to do with it. There are no control surfaces.

(skip)

Ok, thank you. I'll look at your files.

By the way, I think it is not good idea to weld wings - drag and especially lift forces may be (totally) wrong, especially if you use FAR.

Also I'm pretty sure that it is definitely bad idea to weld two or more solar panels - only one of them will work even in case of static panels. And by my experience nor Infernal Robotics nor Procedural Parts will not work anyway if you weld them with other parts. This is due to way their modules work and cannot be fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

That is because Firespitter works in a way that is not compatible with welding.

And yes, Firespitter (with many other) too

[mendahu]

Thanks, I can remove the solar panels. And the infernal robotics and procedural part was not actually welded, just part of the craft file so you'll need it to open the thing.

As for the wings, I'm fine with that. I can see what the result is and then clip more wings inside the thing if I need to generate more lift. I'll see what happens! Thanks again for checking.

[bahumutx13]

That is because Firespitter works in a way that is not compatible with welding.

Thanks for the reply. I slowly realized this so I just recreated a chunk of the b9 parts I needed in the specific style I wanted and removed the firespitter stuff. Would be cool if ubio could handle it.

[Redchrome]

I just tried this mod, welding my first part (a Rocket Parts bin from the ELP+Karbonite mod, which was already welded with UbioZur Welding, plus a couple of structural conical adapters to get it down to the size of a regular Clamp-O-Tron at one end, and a Clamp-O-Tron Sr. at the other end, for a grand total of 5 parts).

After welding the whole thing together, I exited the VAB, and found that instead of the usual high-level 'isometric' view of the Space Center, I got a view of the road between the VAB and the astronaut office, facing north.

Re-entering the VAB and exiting again, I got the expected behavior.

Odd, but not disastrous so far.

Next, I'm going to try to build this parts bin at my space station (using Extraplanetary Launchpads) and see if it works.

Update:

After quitting and examining the craft files between the version before welding and after welding, a 'diff -u' shows that they're identical except for the 'ship' and 'description' tuples where I changed the description. Still shows as being 5 parts instead of 1 (which I would expect). I can still disassemble it.

Also, quitting the VAB after welding a part still puts me on the road between the VAB and the astronaut office, facing the SPH.

Once the assembly is welded, I cannot move or drag it around the VAB, let alone make a subassembly out of it by dragging it to the subassembly menu.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Redchrome
Update with more information

[Alewx]

Thanks for the reply. I slowly realized this so I just recreated a chunk of the b9 parts I needed in the specific style I wanted and removed the firespitter stuff. Would be cool if ubio could handle it.

I'm afrait but to me it currently looks like welding firespitter parts is somehow impossible because the data of the part is handled elsewhere, but not in the part module.

Tweakscale is only possible because it changes the scaling of the part in the scene, which is readable for us, Firespitter is a whole other thing.

I just tried this mod, welding my first part (a Rocket Parts bin from the ELP+Karbonite mod, which was already welded with UbioZur Welding, plus a couple of structural conical adapters to get it down to the size of a regular Clamp-O-Tron at one end, and a Clamp-O-Tron Sr. at the other end, for a grand total of 5 parts).

After welding the whole thing together, I exited the VAB, and found that instead of the usual high-level 'isometric' view of the Space Center, I got a view of the road between the VAB and the astronaut office, facing north.

Re-entering the VAB and exiting again, I got the expected behavior.

Odd, but not disastrous so far.

Next, I'm going to try to build this parts bin at my space station (using Extraplanetary Launchpads) and see if it works.

Update:

After quitting and examining the craft files between the version before welding and after welding, a 'diff -u' shows that they're identical except for the 'ship' and 'description' tuples where I changed the description. Still shows as being 5 parts instead of 1 (which I would expect). I can still disassemble it.

Also, quitting the VAB after welding a part still puts me on the road between the VAB and the astronaut office, facing the SPH.

Once the assembly is welded, I cannot move or drag it around the VAB, let alone make a subassembly out of it by dragging it to the subassembly menu.

Ok could you please enable the advanced Debugging for the welding and then weld a part and send us the log of that.

There are some Points:

• You are the second who said that the camera after at launch would move to strange position and rotation, which has nothing directly to do with the welding but maybe the parts.
  
• Welding happens inside the editor and it creates a new part, to use this new part, you need to enable the database reload in the welding settings, or restart the game, welded parts do by default not appear in the running season of the game.
  
• Regulary the editor should be cleaned after the welding process, that is why I ask you for a log with the advanced debug option.
  

Edited January 10, 2015 by Alewx

[girka2k]

{skip}

After welding the whole thing together, I exited the VAB, and found that instead of the usual high-level 'isometric' view of the Space Center, I got a view of the road between the VAB and the astronaut office, facing north.

{skip}

You are the second who said that the camera after at launch would move to strange position and rotation, which has nothing directly to do with the welding but maybe the parts.

{skip}

I could be the third... However, I'm pretty sure the problem is not in this mod, at least not in my case.

Just today I've installed KerbinSide + Kerbal Konstructs, played some time with other bases and pressed every of KK controls I found. When I returned to KSC... viola! I still can move camera but it points to side under strange angle...

May be it is just coincidence of course, but it is the first time in more than a year of KSP.

@Redchrome By the way, do you, by chance, have no Kerbal Konstructs installed?

[Dudicus]

first off, just want to say thanks to those maintaining this mod!

just have a quick question regarding loading times. i recently installed this mod on an existing career save due to the fact that some of my ships are getting quite large (part counts). i have many other mods on this save including active texture management. i was able to create a welded part for one of my lifters which had a pretty high part count (400+ parts). i had to restart my client and i'm currently stuck on the loading screen. the loading bar is reading Ubiozur and is specifically indicating the lifter part mentioned above. the client seems to be working (i.e. not frozen) as the loading screen titles (discombublating the discombobulator, pointing correct end toward space, etc.) are still cycling. but its not getting past this particular part i created. i know AMT can take a long time to load particular mods the first time. just wasn't sure if this is normal behavior with welded parts or if i need to further troubleshoot. so far its been about 30 mins and its still loading that same part. i've heard ATM can take as long as a couple of hours with some setups. i'm fine waiting it out but wasn't sure if this was normal. any advice would be much appreciated. thanks!

[girka2k]

first off, just want to say thanks to those maintaining this mod!

just have a quick question regarding loading times. i recently installed this mod on an existing career save due to the fact that some of my ships are getting quite large (part counts). i have many other mods on this save including active texture management. i was able to create a welded part for one of my lifters which had a pretty high part count (400+ parts). i had to restart my client and i'm currently stuck on the loading screen. the loading bar is reading Ubiozur and is specifically indicating the lifter part mentioned above. the client seems to be working (i.e. not frozen) as the loading screen titles (discombublating the discombobulator, pointing correct end toward space, etc.) are still cycling. but its not getting past this particular part i created. i know AMT can take a long time to load particular mods the first time. just wasn't sure if this is normal behavior with welded parts or if i need to further troubleshoot. so far its been about 30 mins and its still loading that same part. i've heard ATM can take as long as a couple of hours with some setups. i'm fine waiting it out but wasn't sure if this was normal. any advice would be much appreciated. thanks!

ATM compresses and caches only models (simplistically speaking textures from which part consists). Welding don't add any new models, only new parts which uses already existing models from original parts. So there is no new work for ATM after welding. Certainly, something went wrong.

As usual, I will offer to provide KSP.log. It probably contains useful information, in this case, especially the last few lines corresponding to the moment when loading hangs.

Edited January 10, 2015 by girka2k

[Alewx]

ATM compresses and caches only models (simplistically speaking textures from which part consists). Welding don't add any new models, only new parts which uses already existing models from original parts. So there is no new work for ATM after welding. Certainly, something went wrong.

As usual, I will offer to provide KSP.log. It probably contains useful information, in this case, especially the last few lines corresponding to the moment when loading hangs.

Yep Girka2k is right there, log from such an endless loading will give the hint what is going wrong.

My current guess is: a thing in the welded part that is containing a steeringsign at the wrong position.

[Dudicus]

thanks for the quick feedback. after reading thru this tread further, i noticed that i had included several non-supported parts in the weld, (multiple engines, landing gear and a probe core). i went ahead and forced quit, then removed the welded part from the Gamedata folder. since then i've reloaded and tested with other welded parts, so far no problems loading at all. guessing it was something in that particular weld.

i'll take it slow, and try to experiment a bit before throwing a huge monstrosity of a ship at it. thanks for all the support, if i run into it again, i'll definitely get a log for further study.

[Alewx]

thanks for the quick feedback. after reading thru this tread further, i noticed that i had included several non-supported parts in the weld, (multiple engines, landing gear and a probe core). i went ahead and forced quit, then removed the welded part from the Gamedata folder. since then i've reloaded and tested with other welded parts, so far no problems loading at all. guessing it was something in that particular weld.

i'll take it slow, and try to experiment a bit before throwing a huge monstrosity of a ship at it. thanks for all the support, if i run into it again, i'll definitely get a log for further study.

Cool that you found it.

I think in that case the engines were the problem, as this is still totally problematic; landing gear would work if you weld only one of them and the probe cores never made any problems.

[girka2k]

Ok, so I spent some time recreating the Shuttle frame (I wanted to improve it anyway and did a before and after to show you the results....

mendahu, sorry that I answer with a delay!

Well, I tried to weld your craft.

I opened Shuttle Orbiter 0_90 Unwelded.craft, deleted PP and IR parts, weld it... and had no problems!

Just in case I tried to weld it with PP and IR parts (which is bad idea anyway) - but still there is no rotation bug.

After looking to KSP.log and OrbiterFrame090Rad.cfg you provided, I found that you're welded something little else - there is no pod and root part is structuralIBeam200. I have no idea how to reproduce your actions to achieve this so can I ask you to describe your steps or to provide craft file immediately before welding?

Anyway it seems for me that it is good idea to have at least two stack nodes at your frame - one to connect bay to cockpit and another - to place tail on it. You should place at the beginning of the bay any part (structural panel for example) that has stack node and which will be root part for all others. Something like bulkhead. I suppose it also will resolve rotation problem.

By the way I should upset you a little. There is a plenty of good and very good mods with ready cargo bays equipped with movable doors (doors is another problem that you will inevitably face. You will not be able to secure the door in at least two points - it is impossible to connect some part to two or more IR parts). The main advantage of such mods is that they shield their content, killing drag. It is very useful, especially when using the FAR.

- - - Updated - - -

I got it! Root part is start of "keel" - structuralBeam200 nearest to pod. Indeed, now all panels are rotated to 90 degrees...

May be the reason is that the root part is surface attached, not stack attached. At the moment I'm not sure.

Anyway variant with bulkhead as root part is devoid of this shortcoming. It welds pretty well.

Edited January 11, 2015 by girka2k

[mendahu]

@girka2k: Thanks so much for looking into this! You figured it out, I was welding after the cockpit. When I think about it, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't use the cockpit as the root part. For some reason I felt like I would be messing it up.

As for the part that upsets me...these are all problems I know! I do historical recreations and strive to get accuracy (www.ksphistory.com). The real shuttle's bay doors opened one at a time so I have trouble finding cargo bays I can do that with. In addition, this lets me customize the size and everything. I solved the door problem by placing a rotatron at the front, and a free-moving docking washer at the end of the door, then strutted the washer to the rear frame. It works awesome, check out this example: http://imgur.com/lTjbmk6

I don't use FAR so it's all good. I will likely edit the CFG file for the welded part to adjust the mass where it needs to be to make the right drag and vessel weight.

Thanks so much! I can't wait to try this out.

-mendahu

www.ksphistory.com

[girka2k]

I solved the door problem by placing a rotatron at the front, and a free-moving docking washer at the end of the door, then strutted the washer to the rear frame. It works awesome, check out this example: http://imgur.com/lTjbmk6

Very interesting! I was quite sure it shouldn't work.

Thank you for the hint about struts! I'll have to try. In the end, there are plenty of other large surfaces that you want to move, but which cannot be securely fastened only at one point.