Would Laythe be capable of sustaining Kerbal (or human) life?

[AndreyATGB]

Kind of obvious analogy here, but Laythe is most probably going to be the Titan of KSP. Ammonia (vs. methane) oceans, (cyro)volcanism, atmosphere all check with Titan (Except that Titan obviously doesn't have oxygen).

Edited July 5, 2013 by AndreyATGB

[Autochton]

If I don't miss my science roll here, having free oxygen is a sign that there is life. Oxidization is a rapid process, and freeing oxygen is energy-intensive - unless that is you are photosynthesizing. So Laythe either cannot support conventional jet engines (which it currently can), or it has photosynthesizing life. Or there's magic oxygen-generators hidden somewhere on it.

Of course, said life is not unlikely to be single-celled and microscopic.

[boxman]

The sun isn't the only source of heat you know. Tidal friction is a thing. Besides, people have landed thermometers on Laythe and the ocean is only a few degrees below 0 Celcius. So it is most likely salt water.

Which actually makes no sense for a planet that far away from the sun. Having liquid ocean is possible with head from tidal effects/volcanoes but that ocean would be hidden underneath a thick layer of ice like Europa.

[Brotoro]

Which actually makes no sense for a planet that far away from the sun. Having liquid ocean is possible with head from tidal effects/volcanoes but that ocean would be hidden underneath a thick layer of ice like Europa.

No, it would depend on the amount of heating. Laythe is the closest of the Joolian moons to Jool, so it would get more tidal heating (like Io in the Jovian system). And because of the smaller distance scale of the Joolian system, tidal forces will actually be much greater than they are in the Jocian system. Also, Laythe has an atmosphere, so it will have some greenhouse effect to keep the surface warmer than it would otherwise be.

[Justy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't actually know that Laythe, or Kerbin for that matter, have oxygen atmospheres. We know both can supply IntakeAir, and that IntakeAir is something that can be burnt in a jet engine that uses liquid fuel, and that liquid fuel can also burn with oxidizer in a rocket engine. We ASSUME, then, that IntakeAir is oxygen, and it's likely, but for all we know it's something different that also reacts with liquid fuel.

But seriously, if I'm wrong, tell me.

[Kimberly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't actually know that Laythe, or Kerbin for that matter, have oxygen atmospheres. We know both can supply IntakeAir, and that IntakeAir is something that can be burnt in a jet engine that uses liquid fuel, and that liquid fuel can also burn with oxidizer in a rocket engine. We ASSUME, then, that IntakeAir is oxygen, and it's likely, but for all we know it's something different that also reacts with liquid fuel.

But seriously, if I'm wrong, tell me.

I think the game files have a boolean that names oxygen. So we can be pretty certain.

[SkyRender]

If I don't miss my science roll here, having free oxygen is a sign that there is life. Oxidization is a rapid process, and freeing oxygen is energy-intensive - unless that is you are photosynthesizing. So Laythe either cannot support conventional jet engines (which it currently can), or it has photosynthesizing life. Or there's magic oxygen-generators hidden somewhere on it.

Of course, said life is not unlikely to be single-celled and microscopic.

That's working under the dangerous assumption that oxygenation will naturally lead to the development of life, or that an oxygen-rich atmosphere necessitates life exist. In fact, life existed on Earth long before the Oxygen Crisis. And seeing as we have no evidence of a planet with an oxygen-rich atmosphere such as ours anywhere else but Earth, we don't have any conclusive evidence either way about how necessary life is for one to exist. Perhaps Laythe simply has a ridiculously strong magnetic field that keeps its atmosphere contained. Or perhaps it used to have a far, far thicker atmosphere and it's been bleeding off into space for millions of years.

[Sof]

That's working under the dangerous assumption that oxygenation will naturally lead to the development of life, or that an oxygen-rich atmosphere necessitates life exist. In fact, life existed on Earth long before the Oxygen Crisis. And seeing as we have no evidence of a planet with an oxygen-rich atmosphere such as ours anywhere else but Earth, we don't have any conclusive evidence either way about how necessary life is for one to exist. Perhaps Laythe simply has a ridiculously strong magnetic field that keeps its atmosphere contained. Or perhaps it used to have a far, far thicker atmosphere and it's been bleeding off into space for millions of years.

The point being that oxygen is very reactive, so it wouldn't remain inert in an atmosphere the same way nitrogen or CO2 would.

For a rocky planet, oxygen in the atmosphere means that it must be continuously created to replenish molecules lost to reactions. Photosynthesis is the main source of molecular oxygen by far, and that requires plants which are alive.

[SkyRender]

The point being that oxygen is very reactive, so it wouldn't remain inert in an atmosphere the same way nitrogen or CO2 would.

For a rocky planet, oxygen in the atmosphere means that it must be continuously created to replenish molecules lost to reactions. Photosynthesis is the main source of molecular oxygen by far, and that requires plants which are alive.

That we've observed, at least. That's kind of my point, actually: we have a very limited dataset on what an oxygen-rich atmosphere can do to remain intact. It's entirely possible that a means does exist for a natural oxygen atmosphere which does not require any life to sustain it. There are so many variables involved that it's effectively impossible to test every single possible environment for such an atmosphere. The fact that we've only ever observed an oxygen atmosphere paired with life is not really that useful since we have exactly one data point to work with in that regard.

[Ralathon]

That we've observed, at least. That's kind of my point, actually: we have a very limited dataset on what an oxygen-rich atmosphere can do to remain intact. It's entirely possible that a means does exist for a natural oxygen atmosphere which does not require any life to sustain it. There are so many variables involved that it's effectively impossible to test every single possible environment for such an atmosphere. The fact that we've only ever observed an oxygen atmosphere paired with life is not really that useful since we have exactly one data point to work with in that regard.

No need to get into speculation for it. We actually have 2 oxygen rich atmospheres in our solar system: Europa, the second moon of Jupiter has a thin atmosphere mostly made of oxygen.

Admittedly, the atmospheric pressure on Europa is 12 orders of magnitude smaller than on earth. But it is sustained by purely non biological processes. Essentially radiation cracks the water on the surface to produce hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is very light and moves fast, thus escaping the moon while the oxygen sticks around for a bit.

Laythe is rather far from the sun, cold and according to the devs: bombarded with radiation and volcanism. It seems unlikely to me that life would bother evolving photosynthesis in those conditions. Better to just stick around near the thermal vents and get your energy from sulphur or something.

[Commander Zoom]

The free oxygen thing is what I was thinking about just yesterday, and came here to post.

[Mr. Rogue Ace]

I imagined the volcanism to be more like that you find in island chains here on Earth, and not a major impediment to living there.

The cold, and radiation would be the impediments.

Hawaii Moon!

It honestly looks like a wonderful vacation area!