[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[regex]

Since the mods been updated, anyone got any tips for kerbal longevity? I threw a simple ship together with a Carbon extractor and a water purifier on a 3 man pod with 2 of those ZZ life support boxes (140 water/food/oxygen each). Got just about 22 days of food and, running the extractors constantly, somewhere around 34 days of water/oxygen. Not really much in the way of long term spacecraft or interplanetary missions, and I'd hate to just slap 8-way symmetry on hexcans or boxes to try to up the length.

The zzz box config I posted is used with the old values. You'll need to multiply the values by four (140 food/water/oxy becomes 560 food/water/oxy) so that they have the same values with the increased usage rates.

[Lalwcat]

The zzz box config I posted is used with the old values. You'll need to multiply the values by four (140 food/water/oxy becomes 560 food/water/oxy) so that they have the same values with the increased usage rates.

That makes much more sense

[HurricaneBlack]

Thanks for the great mod!

I was wondering, is it possible to turn off the ability to not allow food/water/O2 to be consumed? (the little red cancel symbol) I noticed that Deadly reentry has it set so you can not turn it off. As it is you can shut them off and the kerbals survive just fine.

[NameNotFound]

Hi, there was something wrong with my lander after I updating the mod.

The Command Pad and remote control unit broke apart when I loaded the station.

Fortunately, I backup my saves before, and do solve the problem.

Perhaps it is because of the weight changes.

0.22, with a lot of mods.

(plus,runner 1 used to have 2 days' supply but dropped to 45 mins after updating, I think you should highlight this change.)

Any way,thanks for the great mod, I really like it!

Edited November 17, 2013 by NameNotFound
Adding more information because former one was confusing.

[sidfu]

Hi, there was something wrong with my lander after I updating the mod.

Fortunately, I backup my saves before, and do solve the problem.

Perhaps it is because of the weight changes.

0.22, with a lot of mods.

(plus,runner 1 used to have 2 days' supply but dropped to 45 mins after updating, I think you should highlight this change.)

Any way,thanks for the great mod, I really like it!

he changed teh consumption rates. before it was 1 used every 24 earth hours now its 1 every kerbal 6 hours which is a kerbal day

[NameNotFound]

he changed teh consumption rates. before it was 1 used every 24 earth hours now its 1 every kerbal 6 hours which is a kerbal day

I knew,and I mean he should highlight this change. It's hide in the long change log right now.

The biggest problem is the command pad and remote control unit on my lander.

They broke apart when I loaded the station.

Edited November 17, 2013 by NameNotFound
forgot quote

[TaranisElsu]

I knew,and I mean he should highlight this change. It's hide in the long change log right now.

The biggest problem is the command pad and remote control unit on my lander.

They broke apart when I loaded the station.

That shouldn't have been caused by anything that I did. I do not see how changing the weight of the resources would cause it... Can you recreate it? And would you upload the logs if it happens again? You might also watch/search the logs for "TAC". All of my logging statements start with that. See if you can find any errors at or near lines with my logging statements. It would also help if you would list your mods. It might be one of them, or a conflict with one of them, that caused it.

Thanks for the great mod!

I was wondering, is it possible to turn off the ability to not allow food/water/O2 to be consumed? (the little red cancel symbol) I noticed that Deadly reentry has it set so you can not turn it off. As it is you can shut them off and the kerbals survive just fine.

I will try to fix that. Thanks for the heads up.

...is a bit confusing because the default "day" in KSP is 24 hours. That means that a Kerbal uses four resources for every KSP day which doesn't play as nicely with launch window planners and such. Sure, it's simple division...

Wanted to throw my two-cents in with regex. I think I'd rather see the days-of-supplies-per-ton be reduced than to have to divide by four on the fly just so there's less guesswork.

Anyone want to vote for 6-hour days vs 24-hour days? I would like the units to be nice round numbers to make it easier to plan and design new rockets, and to know at a glance how much time you have left (even without opening the monitoring window). Did changing it to 6-hour days lose that benefit?

Right now, all consumption rates are in units per Kerbin day (6 hours). So a unit of oxygen would last one Kerbal for 6 hours, and weights ~107 g (0.000107 metric tons), and ~2685 units should fit in a 1 m³ container.

I can change it back to 1 unit per 24 hours, which works out to 0.43 kg (0.00043 metric tons) per unit, and ~671 units per 1 m³ container.

Which would you prefer?

[TaranisElsu]

Another update! Version 0.4 is now available!

New in this version:

• Per-save settings. You can now enable/disable the mod for each game save in addition to changing whether to allow the crew to respawn or perma-die.
  
• Added a button to the Space Center scene where you can change the settings. Note that it also allows changing global settings like the consumption rates. Be careful changing those because you will also need to change the resource densities (in TacResources.cfg) and how much parts store.
  

I probably should have listed the last update as a "game breaking" update. Changing the names of the resources means that any ship with resources under the old names will not have the new resources, potentially making the crew die from the lack thereof. Changing the value of a unit of resource means that all ships have their supply longevity divided by four. Also, changing the densities of the resources throws off the TWR and dV of old designs.

Please read my previous post and vote for 6-hour (Kerbin) days or 24-hour (Earth) days. If people want me to change it back, then I will.

Sorry for any problems caused by the last update

[DasBananenbrot]

Another update! Version 0.4 is now available!

New in this version:

• Per-save settings. You can now enable/disable the mod for each game save in addition to changing whether to allow the crew to respawn or perma-die.
  
• Added a button to the Space Center scene where you can change the settings. Note that it also allows changing global settings like the consumption rates. Be careful changing those because you will also need to change the resource densities (in TacResources.cfg) and how much parts store.
  

I probably should have listed the last update as a "game breaking" update. Changing the names of the resources means that any ship with resources under the old names will not have the new resources, potentially making the crew die from the lack thereof. Changing the value of a unit of resource means that all ships have their supply longevity divided by four. Also, changing the densities of the resources throws off the TWR and dV of old designs.

Please read my previous post and vote for 6-hour (Kerbin) days or 24-hour (Earth) days. If people want me to change it back, then I will.

Sorry for any problems caused by the last update

yay an update xD

[regex]

I vote for 24 hours, but you probably knew that. It's also relatively easy to build a config for your mod; I would suggest just using what you have right now and providing a 24 hour config as an option. You could also have a Module Manager script to adjust resources and storage per part.

[TaranisElsu]

I vote for 24 hours, but you probably knew that. It's also relatively easy to build a config for your mod; I would suggest just using what you have right now and providing a 24 hour config as an option. You could also have a Module Manager script to adjust resources and storage per part.

I was thinking of providing a 24 hour config, but my concern is all the parts that should hold the resources. They need to be balanced so that people do not need too many or too few containers to get anywhere. Although I guess the only real issue is that the dry weight of the containers will be off since I am scaling the weight of each unit of resource...

[regex]

I was thinking of providing a 24 hour config, but my concern is all the parts that should hold the resources. They need to be balanced so that people do not need too many or too few containers to get anywhere. Although I guess the only real issue is that the dry weight of the containers will be off since I am scaling the weight of each unit of resource...

Not really since the containers are essentially holding the exact same amount of resource. While I was playing around with the configs last night I noticed you just divided density by four. If you multiply resource density by four while reducing the amount stored by a given container by the same amount you end up carrying exactly the same amount of resource. This is why I think a separate config file would correct the issue. Alternatively, have the mod run on 24-hour and provide configs for 6-hour base. There is literally no difference in vessel mass for the same hour amount whether running on 6- or 24-hour life support.

Like I said, my biggest objection to the 6-hour value is that it isn't entirely clear how long the life support will last, and this is big when planning a mission. This is the same sort of issue you run into when tracking the resource in something like cubic liters or meters (although, to be fair, dividing by four isn't exactly hard). The tracking station and all in-game times are displayed in a human 24-hour format which means that, while the 6 hour time is great for role-playing, it isn't exactly practical or clear.

[15nelsoc]

-edit-

Issue Resolved. Thanks TaranisElsu

-edit-

Immediately after installing version .4 (without installing anything else new and just updating from v .3 (which worked fine)), I opened up my save from the main menu, I saw the TAC LS menu appear and then a slew of notifications from every craft in the game that their parts were not found, the VAB and SPH had 0 parts in them except for 2 nosecone. I tried removing TAC LS from gamedata but the problem persisted. Starting a new save did not solve the problem. Here is a link to the new save and error logs with the issues:

-edit-

link removed, no longer necessary

-edit-

Edited November 18, 2013 by 15nelsoc
Fixed

[SkyRender]

Kerbals may have a 6-hour day, but we humans think in 24-hour increments in terms of days. Also, the game timer counts days in units of 24 hours for the mission timer as it is. So it would be best to stick to Earth standard instead of Kerbin standard, I think.

[NameNotFound]

That shouldn't have been caused by anything that I did. I do not see how changing the weight of the resources would cause it... Can you recreate it? And would you upload the logs if it happens again? You might also watch/search the logs for "TAC". All of my logging statements start with that. See if you can find any errors at or near lines with my logging statements. It would also help if you would list your mods. It might be one of them, or a conflict with one of them, that caused it.

I think I found the reason.

1. weight change may cause very light shake, It will happened even without any mod

but usually harmless, we did not notice

2. I forgot to turn off ASAS after I docked my ship

3. Some other mod weaker my remote control unit before

so it's my mistake not a bug, sorry for that

I like consumption rates right now. It would be boring if a container could last one Kerbal for years.

[TaranisElsu]

Immediately after installing version .4 (without installing anything else new and just updating from v .3 (which worked fine)), I opened up my save from the main menu, I saw the TAC LS menu appear and then a slew of notifications from every craft in the game that their parts were not found, the VAB and SPH had 0 parts in them except for 2 nosecone. I tried removing TAC LS from gamedata but the problem persisted. Starting a new save did not solve the problem. Here is a link to the new save and error logs with the issues:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/32v4bzkqeb8cdmb/TAC%20LS%20Crash.rar

Thank you for giving me so much to go through! Much appreciated.

When did you last upgrade RemoteTech2? There are some errors caused by it that might be messing up the part loading:

UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path "C:\Users\Clyde Nelson\Desktop\KSP\KSP .22.0 Test\KSP_win\GameData\RemoteTech2\RemoteTech_Settings.cfg" is denied.
  at System.IO.FileStream..ctor (System.String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, Boolean anonymous, FileOptions options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.FileStream..ctor (System.String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.File.Open (System.String path, FileMode mode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConfigNode.Save (System.String fileFullName, System.String header) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ConfigNode.Save (System.String fileFullName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Settings.Save () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Settings.Load () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.RTSettings.get_Instance () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.ModuleRTAntenna.get_RangeMultiplier () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.ModuleRTAntenna.GetInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RemoteTech.ModuleSPUPassive.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

If you would, please try one of the following:

1. Remove the RemoteTech2 mod temporarily and see if you still have the problem.
   
2. Or just delete GameData\RemoteTech2\RemoteTech_Settings.cfg
   
3. Or change the file permissions on GameData\RemoteTech2\RemoteTech_Settings.cfg so that KSP can write to the file. I.e. make sure your user account can write to the file.
   

Let me know what happens. Thanks!

[15nelsoc]

Let me know what happens. Thanks!

I feel bad that I made you spend your time fixing my own stupidity, especially when it didn't even involve your mod. For some reason RemoteTech_Settings.cfg had been changed to read only, which was the root of the problem. Thank you very much for taking the time to assist me. Your mod really is great; it is simple but profoundly deepens gameplay. Thank you for the effort you have put into this mod. I will try to work on some new models for you in return, but as a relatively novice modeler I can't give a firm ETA on them or guarantee how good they will be. I will try to have some better models out though by the end of the week for you.

-edit-

In my opinion I also think that the 24hr scale is easier to work with.

-edit-

Yes it did fix the problem. Thanks again.

-edit-

GPU just died on my main rig, that puts a bit of a damper on my efforts. Sorry about that.

Edited November 18, 2013 by 15nelsoc

[LostElement]

This adds alot of realism to the game. Can't wait for proper parts. Hope it comes soon!

[Algiark]

About the part designs... I'm no 3D modeler, but I can make some concepts, does that count?

[15nelsoc]

About the part designs... I'm no 3D modeler, but I can make some concepts, does that count?

That's a lovely cylindrical object, I can make a model of it for you by tomorrow or Tuesday (schedule dependent, it shouldn't take more than 20 mins to actually make) and then get it imported soon after.

-edit-

GPU just died on my main rig, that puts a bit of a damper on my efforts. Sorry about that.

-edit-

Yes it did fix the problem TaranisElsu. Thanks again.

Edited November 18, 2013 by 15nelsoc
Murphy's Law

[TaranisElsu]

I feel bad that I made you spend your time fixing my own stupidity, especially when it didn't even involve your mod. For some reason RemoteTech_Settings.cfg had been changed to read only, which was the root of the problem. Thank you very much for taking the time to assist me. Your mod really is great; it is simple but profoundly deepens gameplay. Thank you for the effort you have put into this mod. I will try to work on some new models for you in return, but as a relatively novice modeler I can't give a firm ETA on them or guarantee how good they will be. I will try to have some better models out though by the end of the week for you.

-edit-

In my opinion I also think that the 24hr scale is easier to work with.

No worries. Thank you for giving me so much to go on. So fixing the file fixed the problem?

And it sounds like most of you want me to go back to units related to the 24-hour day instead of the 6-hour Kerbin day. If that is the concensous, then I will revert that change.

[WafflesToo]

Another update! Version 0.4 is now available!

New in this version:

• Per-save settings. You can now enable/disable the mod for each game save in addition to changing whether to allow the crew to respawn or perma-die.
  
• Added a button to the Space Center scene where you can change the settings. Note that it also allows changing global settings like the consumption rates. Be careful changing those because you will also need to change the resource densities (in TacResources.cfg) and how much parts store.
  

I probably should have listed the last update as a "game breaking" update. Changing the names of the resources means that any ship with resources under the old names will not have the new resources, potentially making the crew die from the lack thereof. Changing the value of a unit of resource means that all ships have their supply longevity divided by four. Also, changing the densities of the resources throws off the TWR and dV of old designs.

Please read my previous post and vote for 6-hour (Kerbin) days or 24-hour (Earth) days. If people want me to change it back, then I will.

Sorry for any problems caused by the last update

Save breaking kinda messes me up really badly... but you're saying the only issue is one of the resources got renamed? So if someone were to go through the source and replace all instances with the original resource name it wouldn't break the save?

Just thinking out loud here...

[cyberKerb]

And it sounds like most of you want me to go back to units related to the 24-hour day instead of the 6-hour Kerbin day. If that is the concensous, then I will revert that change.

Vote for 24hr day from me

[TaranisElsu]

Save breaking kinda messes me up really badly... but you're saying the only issue is one of the resources got renamed? So if someone were to go through the source and replace all instances with the original resource name it wouldn't break the save?

Just thinking out loud here...

Two easy ways to fix the resource naming issue: (backup everything first, especially your save file)

1. (Recommended) Go through your persistent.sfs and take the _TAC off the resource names. Should be able to do a Find & Replace "Food_TAC" with "Food", "Water_TAC" with "Water", etc. Or even Find & Replace "_TAC" with "" (case sensitive). You may also need to do the same thing to all of your vessel save files that you don't want to rebuild (in {KSP}\saves\{SaveName}\Ships\VAB or SPH)
   
2. Edit the LifeSupport.cfg file and add the _TAC back to the names, so "FoodResource = Food" becomes "FoodResource = Food_TAC" and edit TacResources.cfg and add the _TAC back. You will also need to go through all of the parts' cfg files and do the same thing.
   

No source code edits required.

I'm sorry about that

[regex]

I'm sorry about that

To be fair, the mod is still marked as a work in progress.