[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Raptor831]

Good stuff - I have no current missions (that I care about...), so I shall grab these and tentatively update. You mention that they now consume litres, rather than 1 unit per day - is there a list of how many litres 1 kerbal consumes per game day? The only mention is 304 units of oxygen per 24 hours (76 per 6 hours) - is it the same for food and water too?

There's a Google Doc here that shows all of Taranis' math. The green "Units per day" section is what you're after.

[panarchist]

Good stuff - I have no current missions (that I care about...), so I shall grab these and tentatively update. You mention that they now consume litres, rather than 1 unit per day - is there a list of how many litres 1 kerbal consumes per game day? The only mention is 304 units of oxygen per 24 hours (76 per 6 hours) - is it the same for food and water too?

In addition to the spreadsheet mentioned up-thread, if you click on the TAC LS button in the Space Center view, you can click on the Resource Consumption Rates button and get (and also set) the values in-game.

[sidfu]

tried the prerealse but its not working. all the containers and resources in the containers show up but the actualy tac plugin dont work. there no icon for it and the MM configs isnt being applied to anything. i have no error message i can see its just like the plugin isnt loading. im using the newest MM.

[Tahvohck]

Awesome! I'm especially happy to hear we have 6-hour day support now.

Whoof. Looking at that chart, I'm impressed you can keep up with it. I'd need more borders around each table to keep track of it all.

[BudgetHedgehog]

There's a Google Doc here that shows all of Taranis' math. The green "Units per day" section is what you're after.

In addition to the spreadsheet mentioned up-thread, if you click on the TAC LS button in the Space Center view, you can click on the Resource Consumption Rates button and get (and also set) the values in-game.

Thank you both, that answered my question

[TaranisElsu]

tried the prerealse but its not working. all the containers and resources in the containers show up but the actualy tac plugin dont work. there no icon for it and the MM configs isnt being applied to anything. i have no error message i can see its just like the plugin isnt loading. im using the newest MM.

Where is your log file? And list of installed mods? I cannot begin to help you without those because I do not have enough information yet. You can upload your log file somewhere using Dropbox, Pastebin, or something else.

Good stuff - I have no current missions (that I care about...), so I shall grab these and tentatively update. You mention that they now consume litres, rather than 1 unit per day - is there a list of how many litres 1 kerbal consumes per game day? The only mention is 304 units of oxygen per 24 hours (76 per 6 hours) - is it the same for food and water too?

There's a Google Doc here that shows all of Taranis' math. The green "Units per day" section is what you're after.

In addition to the spreadsheet mentioned up-thread, if you click on the TAC LS button in the Space Center view, you can click on the Resource Consumption Rates button and get (and also set) the values in-game.

Thank you both, that answered my question

My hope is that the Build Aid window in the editor will help with that. Play with it and see if you get a feel for how much of each resource they need.

[ZobrAA]

Probably bug?

	name = TacOxygenContainer
...
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxygen
		amount = [B][I][SIZE=3]61033[/SIZE][/I][/B]
		maxAmount = [B][I][SIZE=3]61033[/SIZE][/I][/B]
	}

Or not?

Edited July 9, 2014 by ZobrAA

[sidfu]

here u go its both the ksp.log and the output log. i looked at it and said that the .dll for tac had a error and also the MM files also instead of applying them it just delteed the entry. btw it shows the mm file in differnt spot cause was trying something but was the same as before tac not working, mm files not applied. parts work but since tac dotn work they wasted and parts still have resorces.

sorry for having to use rapidgator for them but my upload keeps haing on deposit files.

http://rg.to/file/250aec52b7b32e9c3f4835fab63694a8/KSP.log.html

http://rg.to/file/65f1cffb750287f1e457394f37ad5878/output_log.txt.html

[Paul Kingtiger]

For those waiting for the Universal Storage TAC Pack, I've started testing with the pre-release and everything is looking great.

We've still got to create models for Food, Waste and Waste water as well as a water purifier (Waste Water to Water), and I'll also be reviewing the capacities of tanks to take into account things like Thermal insulation.

But over all I'm happy with what I have to do and really looking forward to using TAC LS in my normal (non-test) games.

[SpacedInvader]

Why have you configured your resources MM config file to omit the resources if the user has Real Fuels or Modular Fuel Tanks installed? I am aware that these allow for the use of procedural life support tanks, but I think that pods should still carry a day of resources so that short term flights don't need to have extra parts for no reason.

EDIT: I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to round the input / output values to a small degree, as the current values result in rounding errors. Or possibly convert to hourly rates, allowing the more detailed math to be handled under the TACLS hood where the limitations of KSP don't affect it as much?

Edited July 9, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[TaranisElsu]

here u go its both the ksp.log and the output log. i looked at it and said that the .dll for tac had a error and also the MM files also instead of applying them it just delteed the entry. btw it shows the mm file in differnt spot cause was trying something but was the same as before tac not working, mm files not applied. parts work but since tac dotn work they wasted and parts still have resorces.

sorry for having to use rapidgator for them but my upload keeps haing on deposit files.

http://rg.to/file/250aec52b7b32e9c3f4835fab63694a8/KSP.log.html

http://rg.to/file/65f1cffb750287f1e457394f37ad5878/output_log.txt.html

It's not downloading for me (using Windows 7 & Google Chrome with FlashBlock and Disconnect). Can you upload to Dropbox, Pastebin, http://hastebin.com/, or another service?

Probably bug?

	name = TacOxygenContainer
...
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxygen
		amount = [B][I][SIZE=3]61033[/SIZE][/I][/B]
		maxAmount = [B][I][SIZE=3]61033[/SIZE][/I][/B]
	}

Or not?

Not a bug. I assume that Oxygen is compressed to 200 bar (~2900 psi), which means ~221 L fits in 1 L. Add it to your ship and see how long the Oxygen lasts .

Why have you configured your resources MM config file to omit the resources if the user has Real Fuels or Modular Fuel Tanks installed? I am aware that these allow for the use of procedural life support tanks, but I think that pods should still carry a day of resources so that short term flights don't need to have extra parts for no reason.

EDIT: I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to round the input / output values to a small degree, as the current values result in rounding errors. Or possibly convert to hourly rates, allowing the more detailed math to be handled under the TACLS hood where the limitations of KSP don't affect it as much?

I am almost finished with some MFT parts. The main config files are not supposed to add resources to the pods because the MFT-MM config file is supposed to do it. Sorry that they got left out of this release.

Would you elaborate on where you are seeing the effects of the rounding? I would like to know where others see it too. But do note that I purposefully rounded the container contents because I do not think the Kerbals would make an Oxygen tank that is 61,033.1914893617 L when they could just make it 61,033 L. Or for the mk1 pod: 228.199151641906 L instead of just 228.20 L.

[Rayder]

For those waiting for the Universal Storage TAC Pack, I've started testing with the pre-release and everything is looking great.

We've still got to create models for Food, Waste and Waste water as well as a water purifier (Waste Water to Water), and I'll also be reviewing the capacities of tanks to take into account things like Thermal insulation.

But over all I'm happy with what I have to do and really looking forward to using TAC LS in my normal (non-test) games.

That's great news Paul. I'm sure there are plenty of us here eagerly waiting to get our hands on it to try out. Let me know if you need someone to test it as well

I was actually thinking the other day, that the waste containers don't need to be there and are only useful with the recyclers. But looks like Taranis had the same idea. Nice work. This mod is really coming along.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Rayder

[sidfu]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/siiuflfa8jw96f7/KSP.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dfxnt13luob1cq8/output_log.txt

here u go taran put them on drop box.

[SpacedInvader]

I am almost finished with some MFT parts. The main config files are not supposed to add resources to the pods because the MFT-MM config file is supposed to do it. Sorry that they got left out of this release.

Would you elaborate on where you are seeing the effects of the rounding? I would like to know where others see it too. But do note that I purposefully rounded the container contents because I do not think the Kerbals would make an Oxygen tank that is 61,033.1914893617 L when they could just make it 61,033 L. Or for the mk1 pod: 228.199151641906 L instead of just 228.20 L.

Ahh, I get what you're planning, that way you can put in a configurable tank rather than a hard coded resource amount.

Anyway, this is what I mean by rounding errors:

As you can see, the small life support container provides 7 days, 7 hours, and some change to each of the resources rather than an even 7 days. My thinking is that if you are going to round one, you should round both to keep the output unchanged. That being said, it's not really a big issue, just seems "untidy" to get 7 days + some change rather than an even 7 days.

[hab136]

Any chance for integration with Kerbal Alarm Clock? I basically use KAC as my mission planning calendar, and currently I make manual alarms for life support expiration (rather than consulting two windows, KAC and the TAC-LS window). It would be great to just have these alarms made (and adjusted) automatically!

Edited July 10, 2014 by hab136

[Donziboy2]

Ahh, I get what you're planning, that way you can put in a configurable tank rather than a hard coded resource amount.

Anyway, this is what I mean by rounding errors:

http://i.imgur.com/R2jG7sj.png

As you can see, the small life support container provides 7 days, 7 hours, and some change to each of the resources rather than an even 7 days. My thinking is that if you are going to round one, you should round both to keep the output unchanged. That being said, it's not really a big issue, just seems "untidy" to get 7 days + some change rather than an even 7 days.

It makes sense in some ways, you will die alot faster without oxygen then without food or water.

[SpacedInvader]

It makes sense in some ways, you will die alot faster without oxygen then without food or water.

[TaranisElsu]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/siiuflfa8jw96f7/KSP.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dfxnt13luob1cq8/output_log.txt

here u go taran put them on drop box.

Okay, I've looked at your file.

1) Do not run KSP from the Program Files directory. Steam allows you to install to an alternate location. Try that. Don't ask me how, I've never done it .

2) If you are trying to run my latest pre-release, don't. Not until your other mods update to work with it. Or get rid of them until they update. I recommend that you stick with 0.8 for a little while longer.

3) Where did you download this mod (TAC Life Support) from? Make sure you have the right one. It will have a TacLifeSupport.dll file.

4) If you really want to make things work, you will have to do the painful, systematic process of:

a) Delete all of your mods.

Slowly install them one at a time.

c) Run KSP after each one. If it crashes or has problems, you know it was the last mod that you installed.

That should help you identify the offending mod or mods.

You have a ton of mods, and I am pretty sure your problem is conflicts between them.

Edited July 11, 2014 by TaranisElsu

[TaranisElsu]

Yay! I finally got my changes close enough to completion to post a pre-release build.

Note: This release is not compatible with previous releases.*

This is a pre-release. I have not been able to test it as much as I would like so there probably are some bugs or things that do not quite work as intended. Please do not use this unless you know what you are doing.

Change log

• Includes performance improvements contributed by angavrilov
  
• Now uses the textures made by jfjohnny5
  
• Uses fixes to the model contributed by Ninenium
  
• Respects the length-of-day game setting (Kerbin 6-hour vs Earth 24-hour)
  
• The current vessel's status is now always displayed and is at the top of the monitoring window
  
• The Build Aid can now be used in the Editor even when the mod is turned off
  
• No longer adds the LifeSupportModule part module or resources in code. Instead it uses a ModuleManager config file.
  
• Bug fix: was not using enough electricity at high time warps.
  
• Bug fix: should not have been requiring Oxygen for craft flying below a reasonable altitude. The check no longer requires the vessel to have electricity or be landed.
  
• Added tweakables so the TAC Converters can be toggled on and off in the editor
  
• TAC Converters can now be "alwaysOn"
  
• TAC Converters config files are now in units per second.
  
• Rebalanced for "1 unit = 1 liter"
  

Note: This release is not compatible with previous releases. Because of changing the definition of a "unit" to mean "1 liter" instead of "1 day of consumption," existing ships' supplies will last for a very different amount of time. Most will have way too little Oxygen (Kerbals now consume ~304 units of Oxygen per 24 hours instead of 1 unit). Also, the mass of supplies has changed in all parts, so your dV and TWR will be very different. These are not horribly breaking changes, but it means you will need to either: (1) edit the amount of resources in existing ships or (2) launch a lot more resources to any existing ships before upgrading. If you have no existing ships with Kerbals aboard, then you do not need to worry and should be safe to upgrade.

I recommend you delete the existing directories before installing the new version. Anything in {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport*/

Pre-release #2 of version 0.9 is now available.

Changes

• Added parts that use the ModularFuelTanks mod. They will hide all of the original parts so that there are only 3 containers and 3 hex containers: small, medium, and large. Existing ships with the original parts will not be broken since this only hides the originals and does not delete them, and only if the ModularFuelTanks mod is present.
  

The same warnings apply: this is a pre-release (not fully tested, probably has issues & bugs) and this is not compatible with version 0.8 and before.

I also should have mentioned above that I changed the recycling parts so that they are representative of real-world processes. The "Carbon Extractor" uses the Bosch process, and I added a version that uses the Sabatier process.

Download from: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/releases/tag/v0.9-pre2

Edited July 11, 2014 by TaranisElsu

[SpacedInvader]

There may be a problem for anyone who wants to use this version while also using Realism Overhaul mod. The issue is that this is adding a modular tank to all of the pods and other parts with a crew capacity and many (if not all) of the pods at least have already had a modular RCS tank defined by RO. Currently, there is no way for one part to contain two tanks in this way, and as a result, one or the other of these tanks will be excluded from the final part.

I would suggest adding a &!RealismOverhaul to the NEEDS line, and then adding another definition which would apply the fixed resource amounts from the other config to the parts instead.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SpacedInvader

[sidfu]

with the new prerelease its working fine now taranis. looks like mft was conflicting it and adding mft support now it works fine. even the other mod tac parts are working with it even thou volumems need tweaking. so far only thing i wonder is when u use extraplanatary launch pads is hopening that tac picks up the ship is lauched right when u undock it.

dont think it has support for rss yet spacedinvader. before wasnt working for me on stock planaet but once he added the mft stuff it started working. so its possible its not working with real fuels right maybe.

Edited July 11, 2014 by sidfu

[SpacedInvader]

with the new prerelease its working fine now taranis. looks like mft was conflicting it and adding mft support now it works fine. even the other mod tac parts are working with it even thou volumems need tweaking. so far only thing i wonder is when u use extraplanatary launch pads is hopening that tac picks up the ship is lauched right when u undock it.

dont think it has support for rss yet spacedinvader. before wasnt working for me on stock planaet but once he added the mft stuff it started working. so its possible its not working with real fuels right maybe.

It's working fine on my test install which includes RSS. What I've described specifically affects those who have realism overhaul because that already places a MFT tank in most pods, resulting in one of the tanks being left out.

[SpacedInvader]

This may be a stupid question, but why aren't they large versions of the recyclers at least twice as effective instead of only 12.% more effective?

[Oafman]

I recently downloaded this fantastic mod. It asked me if I wanted to initiate it in my current save, and I declined as I had a bunch of lads en route back from Jool, and it seemed unfair to suddenly introduce the concept of hunger into their lives. And indeed thirst and breathing.

The boys are now back home, and I'm ready to start sending resources out into space. So how do I now initiate it for my save? Since I initially declined I have not been asked again.

I guess I could uninstall and reinstall, but I wondered if there was a more straightforward option.

[BudgetHedgehog]

The boys are now back home, and I'm ready to start sending resources out into space. So how do I now initiate it for my save? Since I initially declined I have not been asked again.

Open up the saves persistent.sfs and search 'TAC'. After a few stacktricouplers and whatnot, you'll get to a heading under SCENARIO similar to the following:

SCENARIO
	{
		name = TacLifeSupport
		scene = 5, 7, 6, 9
		SavedGameSettings
		{
			IsNewSave = False
			[B]Enabled = False[/B]
			HibernateInsteadOfKill = False
			RespawnDelay = 9203545

I'm assuming changing the bolded to True enables TACLS on that save.