10 Engines Challenge (aka efficient staging design challenge)

[sturmstiger]

The recent test launch of a new Heavy Lift Vehicle didn't go very well: the rocket went out of control shortly after liftoff, then crashed into and obliterated the Rockomax engine plant! Until the plant gets rebuild, the KSC will no get any new rocket engine!

Challenge 1: Launch BIG payloads!

It was discovered that there are still 10 spare LVT-45 engines sitting in a KSC warehouse, and it was soon decided that they will all be used to continue the Heavy Lift Vehicle program, which has the simple goal of launching the heaviest possible payload into low Kerbin orbit.

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Build a rocket that is capable of launching the heaviest possible inert payload into a 75km circular Kerbin orbit using 10 LVT-45 engines. Your entry will be ranked by the mass of the payload. Provide screenshots of your rocket prior to launch and another one after payload separation in 75km LKO. Also describe your launch profile, e.g., when and how you do your gravity turn, engine throttling (if used), etc. Rules:

1. No other engine of any type (including seperatron and RCS thrusters) is allowed. There is no limit on the use of other parts except restrictions from the other rules.

2. You may put one probe core (excluding RC-L01 RGU) on the payload to control the rocket. The rest of the payload must be completely inert, e.g., does not play any active role (supplying thrust, fuel, power or torque) in the launch. The payload must be seperable from the launch vehicle.

3. Stock only with the follownig exceptions: MechJeb, Engineer Redux, Subassembly Loader / Manager. No cheats such as part clipping or infiniglide.

4. There will be two separate leaderboards, one for entries using fuel cross-feeding (e.g. "asparagus staging") and the other for entries which do not (no fuel lines).

5. [New] No low drag parts such as wings and command seats.

Please double check your entry to make sure you're using only LVT-45 and not LVT-30 - they look very similar!

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Fuel Cross-Feeding Designs:

1. 31.56 - tarvert

2. 30 - Edvardo Perez

3. 27.28 - DesertWolf

4. 24.97 - sturmstiger

5.

No Fuel Cross-Feeding Designs:

1. 24.51 - Nao

2. 21.57 - sturmstiger

3.

4.

5.

Challenge 2: Go REALLY FAST!

One day Jeb invited Bill and Bob to his house and asked if they wanted to go to space.

"But we have no engine!", said Bill.

"Actually we do", said Jeb as he opened his garage door, showing a row of 10 Rockomax BACC SRBs.

"I'm not going to ask how you got them", said Bob, "but how far can we go with just SRBs?"

"I don't know, but I bet we could go really really fast with them".

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Build a rocket that takes Jeb, Bill and Bob on a high speed ride to space using 10 Rockomax BACC SRBs. Your entry will be ranked by the "highest speed achieved" from the Flight Results (F3) screen. Provide screenshots of your rocket prior to launch and the of the Flight Results screen. Please also describe your flight profile. Rules:

1. No other engine of any type (including seperatron and RCS thrusters) is allowed. There is no limit on the use of other parts except restrictions from the other rules.

2. Your 3 Kerbals must sit in a Mk1-2 command pod, which has a Mk16-XL parachute on the top and a TR-18A stack seperator on the bottom of the pod. You may add other parts to the pod if you wish.

3. Stock only with the followig exceptions: MechJeb, Engineer Redux, Subassembly Loader / Manager. No cheats such as part clipping or infiniglide.

4. If you somehow achieved Kerbin escape and could not get back, Bill and Bob will be really pissed, but it is still a valid entry.

5. [New] No low drag parts such as wings and command seats.

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Highest Speeds:

1. 2863m/s - nao

2. 2856m/s - nao

3. 2829m/s - metaphor

4. 2810m/s - gm537

5. 2766m/s - carazvan

6. 2658m/s - carazvan

7. 2630m/s - Johnno

8. 2620m/s - Bobnova

9. 2536m/s - sturmstiger

A. 2451m/s - jaredkzr

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Edited July 24, 2013 by sturmstiger

[sturmstiger]

All my launches are done with MechJeb ascent autopilot with the following profile: 75km orbit, 10km turn start, 60km turn end, 0 degrees final flight path angle, 40% turn shape.

Heavy lift - no cross feed:

Heavy lift - cross-feed:

Speed:

Edited July 20, 2013 by sturmstiger

[DesertWolf]

Just to be clear, is it possible to put batteries and solar panels on nonpayload stages?

[sturmstiger]

Just to be clear, is it possible to put batteries and solar panels on nonpayload stages?

Yes you can put anything you want except engines on your non-payload stages.

[Francesco]

well this is going to be tough. you've already pushed it quite a lot in terms of efficiency with those designs.

[Johnno]

well this is going to be tough. you've already pushed it quite a lot in terms of efficiency with those designs.

Surely you won't chicken out Francesco, especially now that I'm entering...

Btw did you see my latest mun landing efficiency score? *puffs up chest*

Anyhoo, onto this challenge. I present my speed entry for now:

Didn't really have a specific ascent profile, tried a few things and somewhere between not straight up and not a proper 45 degree gravity turn seemed to be good.

Will have a look at the payload lifting challenge next.

[Francesco]

yeah I saw it Johnno but I'm not feeling very combative now that 0.21 seems to be about to be released... or does it?

if nothing happens tonight and our hopes fall flat, I'll invest my energies into some challenges

[DesertWolf]

Entry for heavy lift with crossfeed:

Ascent is done using mechjeb, turn start 10 km, turn end 60 km with a 45 turn.

She's a beauty

[sturmstiger]

Entry for heavy lift with crossfeed:

Ascent is done using mechjeb, turn start 10 km, turn end 60 km with a 45 turn.

She's a beauty

Now that's what I called "aggressive" staging. It also shows we are not quite reaching the limit yet - I'd guess at least 30 tons would be possible with aggressive crossfeeding and weight saving .

[gm537]

In the speed submission I came up with the following:

I'm sure the 2,810 won't last but it's nice to be in first for a while!

[tavert]

Note that you can exploit the drag model in this type of challenge by using only low-drag parts for your payload. The best part for this is the RCS block, but you've already banned that. The 1m aircraft cockpits work, but you've banned those due to torque. You should also explicitly ban command seats and wings.

[DesertWolf]

Second Entry:

Ascent is done using mechjeb, turn start 10 km, turn end 75 km with a 33 turn.

27.28 tons is my maximum. But, by exploiting low drag parts as said by tavert I got to ~35 tons.

[tavert]

I couldn't quite get a full orange tank to 75km with only 10 T45's, but I did get 7/8ths of one, 31.56 tons of standard-drag parts:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The stages are (all asparagus'ed except the payload):

0 - Payload, 28 tons of propellant, plus tanks and probe core

1 - 4 tons of propellant and 2 T45's

2 - 4 tons of propellant drop tanks

3 - 10 tons of propellant and 2 T45's

4 - 10 tons of propellant and 2 T45's

5 - 10 tons of propellant and 2 T45's

6 - 10 tons of propellant and 2 T45's

7 - 12 tons of propellant drop tanks

8 - 10 tons of propellant drop tanks

9 - 12 tons of propellant drop tanks

10 - 10 tons of propellant drop tanks

11 - 12 tons of propellant drop tanks

12 - 10 tons of propellant drop tanks

13 - 12 tons of propellant drop tanks

14 - 10 tons of propellant drop tanks

Edited July 21, 2013 by tavert

[sturmstiger]

Second Entry:

Ascent is done using mechjeb, turn start 10 km, turn end 75 km with a 33 turn.

27.28 tons is my maximum. But, by exploiting low drag parts as said by tavert I got to ~35 tons.

I'll use the 27.28 tons entry. I've just added a new rule against low drag parts per tavert.

I couldn't quite get a full orange tank to 75km with only 10 T45's, but I did get 7/8ths of one, 31.56 tons of standard-drag parts:

...

Wow..I think we are approaching the limit with this one. Can somebody prove me wrong?

[rpayne88]

Please don't DQ me because I use FAR (it makes this challenge harder,) but here is my entry for challenge 2:

Rocket Name: Fast Rocket

Max speed: 3.3km/s

Engines used: Nine (9) Rockomax BACC SRBs

Command Pod: Mk. 1-2 pod

Miscellaneous Parts:

-Rockomax to FLT adapter

1.25m ASAS

-Struts

-Radial Parachutes

-1.25m Parachutes

-1.25m Drogue parachute

-1.25m decouplers

-AV-R8 Winglets

-Delta Deluxe winglets w/ control surfaces

-Launch Stability Enhancers

Rocket in VAB:

Flight Results Screen:

Orbital map after 3rd stage burnout:

Jeb trying to push the pod back to Kerbin so he can do this again:

3rd stage flying past the pod as a result of Jeb's pushing:

Procedures:

1. Point straight up

2. Ignite

The three will continue to orbit Kerbol until either a Duna landing and a rescue mission or Kerbin landing. The rocket is designed to be fully reusable (if only the third stage and command pod didn't wind up on an escape trajectory.) Despite the fact that modded parts can be seen in the VAB, I swear, I did NOT use any on this rocket. I'll be completing challenge one later.

Edited July 21, 2013 by rpayne88
Clarification

[DesertWolf]

if I want to submit another one........... sorry, I just love this challenge. Very fun. Do I make another post or do I have to resubmit my second?

Edited July 21, 2013 by DesertWolf

[jaredkzr]

Here's my challenge 2 entry. I did the best I could and got them back in one piece!

Instructions:

1) Launch

2) Go up and stage immediately as needed

On the pad:

End of the flight:

[Johnno]

Please don't DQ me because I use FAR (it makes this challenge harder,) but here is my entry for challenge 2:

Of course you should be disqualified. Show us that that's possible in stock with that same design. It's not. You're gaining a whopping 1000m/s more than is possible in stock with that design.

How exactly does FAR make this challenge harder?

[DesertWolf]

Of course you should be disqualified. Show us that that's possible in stock with that same design. It's not. You're gaining a whopping 1000m/s more than is possible in stock with that design.

How exactly does FAR make this challenge harder?

I agree with Johnno please show with stock design.

[sturmstiger]

Please don't DQ me because I use FAR (it makes this challenge harder,) but here is my entry for challenge 2:.

Sorry, it's a not valid entry per rule. Disable FAR and show us what you got.

if I want to submit another one........... sorry, I just love this challenge. Very fun. Do I make another post or do I have to resubmit my second?

Sure, make another post if you beat yourself again - that's the spirit of challenges!

[Nao]

Yay another ascent challenge , IDK how, but i never get bored with them.

Firstly a non asparagused design.

24.51 tons to 75x75 orbit, launching stage had only 13m/s Dv left (9l of fuel). The mainsail isn't actually classified as engine, but a space cannon, thus went unnoticed while Bob searched for engines after the Rockomax factory blew up. It is also disconnected form fuel tank by decoupler because it is known that black-yellow stripes makes everything look more serious and space cannons are srs-bsns! (and to block payload Dv showing up in MJ).

[Edvardo Perez]

Alright here is my entry. An asparagus staged launcher that delivered 30 tons to 75x75. Gravity turn beginning at 10,000 with mech jeb ascent guidance doing the piloting.

[sturmstiger]

Yay another ascent challenge , IDK how, but i never get bored with them.

Firstly a non asparagused design.

24.51 tons to 75x75 orbit, launching stage had only 13m/s Dv left (9l of fuel). The mainsail isn't actually classified as engine, but a space cannon, thus went unnoticed while Bob searched for engines after the Rockomax factory blew up. It is also disconnected form fuel tank by decoupler because it is known that black-yellow stripes makes everything look more serious and space cannons are srs-bsns! (and to block payload Dv showing up in MJ).

That's pretty awesome: "we are out of engines for a heavy lift rocket...hey look what we found, A SPACE CANNON, let's totally launch it to space as payload!"

[metaphor]

double post

[metaphor]

I used the same layout as gm537, 5-3-1-1 SRBs. Highest speed according to flight screen was 2829 m/s.