First Contact With E.T.

[Ival70]

I watched this video the other day; I thought it made some good points and made me think about what would actually happen if we received contact from an alien life form, and I thought you would enjoy it.

Backup link if video does not work:

The thought of actually contacting an alien is actually a bit scary. What truths will be unveiled about our world? How will it change the way we think, the way we view ourselves. I can not even imagine the implications of such an event... though I think we would gain a lot of knowledge from them, and I don't think they would invade earth (at least not until we tried to spice up their ships with boosters and struts).

[Brabbit1987]

I watched this video the other day; I thought it made some good points and made me think about what would actually happen if we received contact from an alien life form, and I thought you would enjoy it.

Backup link if video does not work:

The thought of actually contacting an alien is actually a bit scary. What truths will be unveiled about our world? How will it change the way we think, the way we view ourselves. I can not even imagine the implications of such an event... though I think we would gain a lot of knowledge from them, and I don't think they would invade earth (at least not until we tried to spice up their ships with boosters and struts).

Ahh yes, I been a subscriber to Vsauce 1 , 2 , and 3 for a long time. Watch every video that comes out lol.

It really does pose an interesting question. In all honesty though, I do not agree with Stephen Hawking, I think we most certainly should answer the "phone" if we where to ever receive a signal. I just feel it is highly unlikely they will invade us, since if they where able to even travel to us, it really wouldn't make sense for them to take our planet or want to go to war for resources.

However, I suppose it still is a tad scary, but that is only because it is something we are so unsure of. New things to us, always tend to be a bit scary.

[KOCOUR]

Hmm since FTL doesnt seem to be possible, it would be oneway trip for them. So the ariving ship would probably be robotic probe designed to observe and measure possibility of colonisation, and it would be probably first of manny such probes to come, or just purely scientifical research probe checking our planet just for curiosity sake.

If it would be manned flight without previous unmanned probe, it would probably be colony ship of desperate refugees (who else would go without prewious recon?).

Such refugees would have probably not much of a choice what to do, they would probably need to settle here, and it would be probably too much of them, and they will probably need lots of our resources to start theyr settlement here.

So they would most probably not be able to tolerate us here, even if they would like to, because it is allready too much of us here, and amount of available resources is limited.

They would be probably prepared (read armed) for such eventuality, so the war would be unavoidable, and as we are talking about race advanced enough to take interstelar journey, the result will be fatal for us.

[Nibb31]

Hmm since FTL doesnt seem to be possible, it would be oneway trip for them.

Not if they can live 2000 years. Interstellar travel for several centuries would be totally feasible if it was only a fraction of their average lifespan.

We always assume that ET lives on the same scale as we do. For all we know, they might be microscopic and their interstellar cruisers might be as big as the pin of a needle. They might live for centuries or millenia. They might move or transmit signals so slowly or so fast that we couldn't communicate with them. It could take them 50 years to formulate a message that would be equivalent to a 10 word sentence to us, and all we would see would be a slow variation of background noise. Or they might move around so fast that it would look like teleportation to us.

We simply don't know and cannot make any assumptions.

There are several key assumptions that we can make:

- Assuming that they are technologically advanced enough to have developed interstellar travel implies that they have been around for a long time.

- If there are at least two intelligent lifeforms in the uniforms (us and them) then there are probably much more.

- The probability that we are not also their first contact is therefore small, so we can assume that they have already encountered many other lifeforms and have developed some sort of protocol for such encounters.

Why would they want to make contact with us? What would we possibly have that would be of interest to such an advanced species?

- They might want to study us, but then making contact would simply ruin the observation.

- They might want to trade something with us, but they might as well take want they want and ignore us. And we don't really have anything unique anyway.

- They might want to preemptively wipe us out, which is a good survival tactic, but in that case we wouldn't even notice. We would just be gone in a few hours and we wouldn't understand what hit us.

So all in all, IMO, the chances of ET ever making contact with us are small, because it simply doesn't make sense to try to establish a friendly relationship with an inferior species.

I'm still a partisan of the Dark Forest theory. You don't survive as a civilization by being friendly. When you don't know the intentions of the other people in the forest, the best way to stay alive is to remain hidden.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Nibb31

[KOCOUR]

On microscopic inteligent lifeform i would disagree. Nothing smaller than average human cell can be sentient.

Other things i can agree with.

[magnemoe]

About living age I agree, they will probably live pretty much forever, you also has the option of suspended animation, however if you don't age you can just as well sleep.

However an robotic probe makes more sense as you don't care about returning it or even if the trip is high risk unless the robot is sentinel who is also an high probability still an benefit in that you don't need an life support.

About size and speed, not to small, smallest posible sentinel entry would probably be an robot using an nanotech brain in 3d, current chips are nanoscale but only in 2d. You still have heat issues so it would not be bacteria sized, more like an insect, more probably it would control the ship.

For sentinel species I you can get to small even with an far more efficient brain I think it still would has to have some size, think small mammal.

Speed, they will operate around as fast as us or faster, to slow and they would never get any technology, more probably some faster predators would eat them first.

Randomness indicate they have been around a long time, chances they had had star travel for millions of years is higher than 100 years.

Study and not disturb makes a lot of sense, first we are in the 10.000 year time period between stone age and star travel other would likely be either stone age or have technology to make their own starship.

If they contact us it will change history, just seeing who technology work and who don't would have impact, it might become messy and this interfere with the study program.

You don't want the animals to see you if you make an nature program.

One reason to contact might be to establish an base, decent chance they use pretty similar biochemistry. So contact, give some technology for us setting up the base as payment.

Yes they could do it themselves but it would require work, now they only has to send the high tech parts and integrate.

Other reason might be to study earth ecosystem, we don't know how common complex ecosystems are, hard to do without contact and again you can let the locals do the hard work.

Now the reminding question is why has not anybody contacted us, might be that we are in the sphere of influence of somebody who want to study.

Other option is that alien civilizations are rare. Say more than 100 lightyear apart, with slower than light they might have done an study here 15000 years ago and plan on another in 5000 years and don't expect much to have changed

[magnemoe]

Note this is how I expect first contact with aliens to be.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/177/0/0/first_contact_by_olsen1a-d54w5jo.jpg

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/177/5/4/first_contact_5_by_olsen1a-d54w8yu.jpg

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/181/1/e/firstcontacts13_by_olsen1a-d55g3li.png

An robotic probe from earth run into some stone age alien in an nearby star system, they was not discovered before landing.

The problem with an advanced interstellar civilization is that it would spread out. Probably pretty slowly but you would get new colonies over time and this would add up over millions of years. Note that an interstellar civilization is pretty much immune to anything who could destroy an planet bound one so it would last pretty much forever.

Either they are very rare or something is stopping them, perhaps entering the matrix is more fun?

Another thought the most obvious guys who create interstellar civilizations would not be welfare states they would do it for the emperor or to spread the word of Om. Not people you want to run into think Klingon or Kzin.

[The Jedi Master]

There are three possibilities:

1.Nobody believes it

2.We get a little uncomfortable, but because of the vast distances that would likely be involved, we more or less go on with our lives

3.Mass panic causes complete and total anarchy, and the collapse of society

Honestly, I think 2 would be most likely.

Also, Central Bureau of Astronomical Telegrams. This is where our tax dollars go, people!

[Lanfranc]

Nothing would be likely to collapse, but I think it would still mean a profound alteration of our worldview and self-understanding to know that we aren't the only sentient life in the universe – on an even larger scale than similar past events such as the discovery of the New World, the modern breakthroughs in physics and astronomy, or indeed the Space Age.

An interesting variety would be if we discovered a sign of a civilisation that didn't actually exist anymore, such as a signal sent from thousands of light years away, or an ancient probe of some sort. Or for that matter, one that is so fundamentally different from us that we literally can't communicate with it in any meaningful fashion. Plenty of very interesting possibilities.

[Spartwo]

Judging from films only america would be involved unless it was an invasion we lost.

[Ival70]

I doubt that they would try to take over the world, or harm us (intentionally at least). If they are similar to people, in order to be technologically advanced enough to travel to other worlds, they would very likely need to be advanced in other aspects of their lives, and would not need to resort to direct warfare to achieve their goals. If they are not similar to people, then they probably won't have the same concepts of war and attack in the first place. Although they could thoroughly enjoy killing and be searching the galaxy for new victims.. ..So many "if"s. At any rate, I know we will answer the "phone" regardles of the danger, it's just in our nature to open Pandora's Box.

[Pinkieseb]

I doubt Aliens would invade, I also doubt they'd share knowledge... Its not like you just meet a whole civilisation "Wanna know the secret to immortality?!" I think some governemnt would get too frightened to talk and start the missiles...

[Killerblonde]

I think a bit of psychology has to be examined here. Human psychology is about survival, domination, and utilitarian relationships. Platonic relationships exist on small scales, but larger groups and nations tend not to do this with each other. Think of it as a meta-creature. The average American might have "okay" intelligence, but but ten in a room and ask all of them to make a decision as a group, and you can except the intellect to fall.

HOWEVER, this is HUMAN psychology. Asides from some kind of survival instinct which you really can't get around for any kind of life, and some kind of curiosity or goal which would justify extensive interstellar travel, the aliens could be completely different. Us humans are fairly animalistic when you get right down to it - I'd except any advanced space faring race to have engineered themselves to operate more consistently and logically. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to make logical decisions as a species, would fight amongst themselves, and could never accomplish space travel. Wouldn't that be a shame if the entire human race was slowly cooked to death by the sun, because nobody tried to do a mass colonization effort as if would be "too expensive" and for a problem "too far away"?

I really don't see a way we will live past a few thousand more years without extensive modification on how we think, (both individually, and as a group.)

[magnemoe]

Nothing would be likely to collapse, but I think it would still mean a profound alteration of our worldview and self-understanding to know that we aren't the only sentient life in the universe – on an even larger scale than similar past events such as the discovery of the New World, the modern breakthroughs in physics and astronomy, or indeed the Space Age.

An interesting variety would be if we discovered a sign of a civilisation that didn't actually exist anymore, such as a signal sent from thousands of light years away, or an ancient probe of some sort. Or for that matter, one that is so fundamentally different from us that we literally can't communicate with it in any meaningful fashion. Plenty of very interesting possibilities.

Problem with this is that how could we know they was not around anymore expect building starships and finding ruins.

An single signal would likely to be one pointed in out direction. We tend to go from large radio towers to cell based communication using lots of small transmitters, make an lot of sense to use lasers between ships and satellites in space, high chance unidirectional powerful radio is an niche like emergency signaling.

Now one of my fun ideas is finding some sort of alien probe in the solar system, either it was an one way probe who broke down after mission compleeted or something who was designed to refuel and continue but failed.

Note something like would give access to alien high technology, you might see an pretty intense race to reach it first, could make an interesting movie.

[Nibb31]

I doubt Aliens would invade, I also doubt they'd share knowledge... Its not like you just meet a whole civilisation "Wanna know the secret to immortality?!" I think some governemnt would get too frightened to talk and start the missiles...

They wouldn't invade or share knowledge. If they were hostile, they would just oblitterate us without asking any questions.

Have you ever heard of the Dark Forest theory ?

[Galacticruler]

If they got here, they would have the ability to do whatever they had in mind.

We would have no say, and possible not realize we died until we were dead.

[WhiteWeasel]

They wouldn't invade or share knowledge. If they were hostile, they would just oblitterate us without asking any questions.

Have you ever heard of the Dark Forest theory ?

As Dr. Michio Kaku said: "It's not going to be some titanic battle like in the movies, it will be bambi vs. godzilla." I also have a lack of faith in humanity. As in aliens are going to wipe us out or knock us down a few peg, not because of a warmonger race or spite. But rather (greedy/arrogant) people at least trying to bully the dragon.

[magnemoe]

They wouldn't invade or share knowledge. If they were hostile, they would just oblitterate us without asking any questions.

Have you ever heard of the Dark Forest theory ?

No but I can guess, yes using relativistic missiles is easy if you can make an starship so you can destroy planets. It however require two things, first you can make an starship, second that some of your targets does not have infrastructure in the asteroid belt who can be self supplied in an emergency, or far worse you hit an colony world to somebody who hold many star systems.

Now I doubt anybody capable of making an starship don't have serious industry in the belt so they are probably aware that just hitting the planet has an high chance for retaliation.

[Jones-250]

...are probably aware that just hitting the planet has an high chance for retaliation.

That´s-a-darn-good-point, lad! I´ve been wrestling with the dark forest theory for a while now, I´ve considered it to be quite absurd, and you, my dear Sir, have just punched a decicive nail in its coffin. Thank you.

Oh yeah! What if E.T. does not come to us, but we to them? Just to turn the tables, so to say.

[magnemoe]

That´s-a-darn-good-point, lad! I´ve been wrestling with the dark forest theory for a while now, I´ve considered it to be quite absurd, and you, my dear Sir, have just punched a decicive nail in its coffin. Thank you.

Oh yeah! What if E.T. does not come to us, but we to them? Just to turn the tables, so to say.

For us I estimate 2-300 years from radio to an space localisation, for some aliens this might be faster, imagine you had an other planet with an oxygen atmosphere it would change the space exploration significant.

And yes I think we find them the most plausible outcome. Why do you think I call this picture First Contact

Some aliens might have run into the same thing with us 30.000 years ago, but its not documented so it don't count.

Now you would probably not notice stone age hunters until you land, it would be even harder if they used fire much, might live in an warm climate and have no issues with raw meet.

Edited July 27, 2013 by magnemoe

[Pingonaut]

There's quite a few interesting things that could happen, not mentioned yet. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so guess what this'll be from?! (not traditional Star Wars, lore of the first contact of humans).

In Star Wars, there was an ancient race that used to rule the galaxy, but by the time humans had advanced they were long gone, only leaving relics (planet-movers, star-makers, etc.) and a new species had its own empire, enslaving anyone they found. They were advanced, yes, but not so far that other species couldn't make out how to use their technology against them and eventually destroy them.

Before humans were discovered by the overlords, they were sending "sleeper ships" and "generation ships" (obvious names, no need to explain?) to other systems, colonizing them. They had no super faster-than-light travel, they just waited to get to their destination.

My point is, we always think of E.T.s being far more advanced than us, just because they can travel further (or have the "guts" to take those risks). What if they're just a bit further than we are when we discover them, or they discover us?

[Spartwo]

why would they have to be more advanced?Most likely human nature would take over and conflict would ensue.

[Sbowyer28]

*Cough* Halo *Cough* But in all seriousness I agree with Spartwo, We don't know how to Coexist, Look what happened to the Neanderthals. The Neanderthals were smarter and stronger, They couldn't survive because they were less agile, If we did that to a Homo Species imagine what we would do to a Grey.

[Seret]

There are three possibilities:

1.Nobody believes it

2.We get a little uncomfortable, but because of the vast distances that would likely be involved, we more or less go on with our lives

3.Mass panic causes complete and total anarchy, and the collapse of society

Honestly, I think 2 would be most likely.

I agree. After all, at the turn of the 19th/20th century it was widely believed that there was an advanced civilisation on Mars building canals. The man in the street completely failed to panic at this thought, although there was a bit of venting of anxiety through sci-fi.

Also, it's not guaranteed that the revelation of an alien civilisation would be announced with any great certainty. Like many scientific breakthroughs it might just be a case of gradually more and more convincing evidence being collected. The press are likely to make several overenthusiastic announcements before the real thing, so people might even be a bit jaded about it. It's also possible that once we develop the technology to accurately identify them we discover several in quick succession (the way we have with exoplanets, for example)

I'm inclined to be highly sceptical of thoughts of LGMs actually visiting us. Why would they? Our atmosphere and biosphere would almost certainly be highly toxic to them, as theres would be to us. As for resources there are plenty of those elsewhere (space is big), we'd have to be very unlucky for ET to consider some particular resource we have worth plundering. If we ever do get an in-person visit it's far more likely to be a robotic probe, although since this could be just as intelligent as the meatsacks that built it the difference could be somewhat academic. Who knows, maybe the ETs would digitise their minds and become AIs. Something like Von Neumann machines would be quite an efficient way of exploring the galaxy. Probes that were basically large-low mass radio antennas (like a big fishing net in space maybe) could cover large amounts of ground and a controlling AI/digitised mind could be beamed to one in the case of finding anything interesting that would benefit from being examined closely.

Far more likely however is that we'll simply get a beam of RF saying hello. Electrons are cheap and move at light speed. If you just want to communicate there's no point in spending all your blood and treasure flinging things into the yawning void. Better to do a wide, cheap sky survey, find what you're looking for and locate it before sending anything. Space is big, after all.

[Seret]

why would they have to be more advanced?Most likely human nature would take over and conflict would ensue.

Don't be too down on humans, our urge to build and explore is stronger than our urge to destroy. If it wasn't we wouldn't have built a planet-spanning civilisation and be taking tentative steps into space.

Besides, if we extrapolate from terrestrial life it would suggest that an intelligent alien species is likely to be descended from predators or omnivores like us. On Earth prey species aren't that smart, because you just don't need to be that clever to eat grass. Hunting really rewards sharp senses, a good enough brain to come up with tactics and being social enough to cooperate. Just look at most of the smarter animals on Earth: humans, dolphins, wolves, most small bitey mammals, etc.

It may well be a rule that intelligent life has a killer instinct. Luckily however to build the machines they'd need to be any threat to us they'd need to be social and curious enough that hopefully they'd rather talk to us than smash something into us.