[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Logris]

Is there an alternative way to download the tree.cfg file?

You can download it from the server with this link: http://www.kspmodders.com/treeedit/backend.php?op=treeload&id=15

Just save it as tree.cfg

[g00bd0g]

Ohhhh, that's because the resource isn't available where you have it landed. Some of the resources are only found in certain places. Lithium is only found in ocean water by default and it's pretty dilute, the Water Extractor needs to be either splashed down in an ocean or near a deposit of ice it can bake out of the soil on some planets without liquid water (don't think there's land-bound water on Kerbin right now, although it might be reasonable for there to be some). Alumina is found in the regolith of certain planets/moons, ammonia you can extract from the environment is only in one or a few places iirc, one of them being the oceans of Laythe.

Land that refinery on the Mun and you should get better results with the Alumina Miner, for example.

EDIT: Full list from checking the resource data files.

Ground-extractable water is found on Duna (more nearer the ice caps), Minmus (mostly in the icy flats), the Mun (a few specific craters near the poles that are shaded enough to retain ice), and Vall. Oceans on Kerbin, Eve, and Laythe all also contain water.

Ammonia is only found in the oceans of Laythe (and also in the atmosphere of Jool, but you need the atmospheric scoops for that, not a refinery)

Lithium is found only in the oceans of Kerbin, Eve, and Laythe in very low concentration.

Alumina is found on Ike, the Mun, and Tylo (more concentrated in some spots, but pretty much everywhere has a decent amount).

Fractal, is Vall's groundwater resource map supposed to be a 14x13 pixel white square as opposed to the 160x120 grayscale bitmaps used for other resources?

Thanks, that is just the information I needed!

[xfrankie]

-snip-

A workaround I am considering doing is modifying the AM containers to start with 10000 AM. This would let me use my spacecraft, but wouldn't really be enough to power the MW network. I would still drop an AM tanker periodically to retain balance.

I agree with your point about recovering resources. It would be especially useful when you finally land a long mission (eg. from Jool/Eeloo, with a fusion reactor and lots of Trit.), and it just happens to land on the other side of Kerbin or in some mountains, unable to be reached by a resource recovery plane etc.

However I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program, or if Fractal would like having something simillar in his mod...

For your testing purposes you might want to edit WarpPlugin > Parts > Resources > ResourcesNuclear.cfg and make sure the antimatter bit looks like this:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION

{

name = Antimatter

density = 0.000000001

flowMode = ALL_VESSEL

transfer = PUMP

isTweakable = true

}

this should allow you to tweak the amount in tanks in the VAB (just for testing - for legit missions leave it at 0 and you're good to go)

also I found out that changing the flow mode to All_Vessel eliminates the problem when you dock AM Collectors to your station in orbit and they don't collect anything

edit:

You could also simulate having a resource pool by adding the "isTweakable" line to Trit./He3 as well, and keeping track (on some sheet of paper or a notebook) of how many units of certain resource were in your vessel when you recovered it. Then you could look at your notes and subtract a certain number after building a new ship and tweaking-in said resource in the VAB...

Edited April 27, 2014 by xfrankie

[SnappingTurtle]

I launched a 2.5m fission reactor with a 2.5m plasma thruster and argon fuel and was disappointed to see I could only get 3.2 kN. To depart from low Kerbin orbit to the Mun would take hours. Is there any way to make this more reasonable?

[WaveFunctionP]

I launched a 2.5m fission reactor with a 2.5m plasma thruster and argon fuel and was disappointed to see I could only get 3.2 kN. To depart from low Kerbin orbit to the Mun would take hours. Is there any way to make this more reasonable?

You could use a thermal thruster. or higher thrust fuel. Fission is best suited for long term power generation, as such it does not produce as much peak power. For that you'll want to use fusion or antimatter. KSPI parts aren't really meant to outclass stock parts until very high in the tech tree.

[SnappingTurtle]

Alright, I'll keep holding out for the later tech. Still, it seems bizarre that such a large power plant and engine can be outclassed by some solar panels and an ion engine.

[AndreyATGB]

Alright, I'll keep holding out for the later tech. Still, it seems bizarre that such a large power plant and engine can be outclassed by some solar panels and an ion engine.

Yeah but the ion engine doesn't have anywhere near the ISP of a plasma thruster.

[philotical]

use a smaller plasma engine - maybe the reactor is not able to feed the required 277GW (iirc) for the 2.5

afaik the .65 needs ~3.43GW, the 1.25 will eat ~34.4 - the 2.5 needs even more than a 3.75 AM reactor produces..

Big does not mean strong enough..

a smaller plasma will be fully powered an thus produce more thrust..

[Fractal_UK]

Alright, I'll keep holding out for the later tech. Still, it seems bizarre that such a large power plant and engine can be outclassed by some solar panels and an ion engine.

It's because stock parts don't respect conservation of energy, there is no way an ion engine and a couple of solar panels can produce the thrust that they do. Realistically, those ships would have micronewtons of thrust but since the stock game doesn't have parts that supply large amounts of power as KSPI parts do, things are done differently.

My rework of electric engines that is in progress will address this.

[Aedile]

I have a question about xenon and argon.

The small xenon tank contains 700 units and it weighs 120kg, the argon tank 1080 units and weighs 6.4 tons.

On the other hand, the dV per unit is not exactly what the 1:2 isp will imply.

I'm really confused about what's up with xenon in general. Any insight about that?

Edit -

BTW what's with the experimental KSPI? are this things which will eventually make it in the 'standard' one or?

Edit 2:

It seems xenon unit is 50 times what other units are, so 54000 units correspond to the 1080 Argon (and you'll get exactly 1:1.8 dv ratio)

Edited April 27, 2014 by Aedile

[Atrius129]

-snip-

For your testing purposes you might want to edit WarpPlugin > Parts > Resources > ResourcesNuclear.cfg and make sure the antimatter bit looks like this:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION

{

name = Antimatter

density = 0.000000001

flowMode = ALL_VESSEL

transfer = PUMP

isTweakable = true

}

this should allow you to tweak the amount in tanks in the VAB (just for testing - for legit missions leave it at 0 and you're good to go)

also I found out that changing the flow mode to All_Vessel eliminates the problem when you dock AM Collectors to your station in orbit and they don't collect anything

edit:

You could also simulate having a resource pool by adding the "isTweakable" line to Trit./He3 as well, and keeping track (on some sheet of paper or a notebook) of how many units of certain resource were in your vessel when you recovered it. Then you could look at your notes and subtract a certain number after building a new ship and tweaking-in said resource in the VAB...

Thank you! This is a great workaround for now. I think I may do the notebook idea too.

I had to replace the parts on my ships to get this to take effect but it worked perfectly.

It would still be good to have some kind of resource pool. Wavefunction, do you think it is doable?

[phoenix_ca]

BTW what's with the experimental KSPI? are this things which will eventually make it in the 'standard' one or?

Not. It's WaveFunction's version. There's no guarantee Fractal will use any of it, ever.

It seems xenon unit is 50 times what other units are, so 54000 units correspond to the 1080 Argon (and you'll get exactly 1:1.8 dv ratio)

Well that's a little...extreme. No wonder it seems like plasma thrusters just rip through xenon at an insane rate compared to argon. So much so that I don't see the point in using it.

Edited April 27, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[Rabada]

Alright, I'll keep holding out for the later tech. Still, it seems bizarre that such a large power plant and engine can be outclassed by some solar panels and an ion engine.

Fission reactors really only work well powering microwave power transmitters.

[Einarr]

Fission reactors really only work well powering microwave power transmitters.

They also work well as secondaries for fusion based setups.

[Aedile]

Not. It's WaveFunction's version. There's no guarantee Fractal will use any of it, ever.

Well that's a little...extreme. No wonder it seems like plasma thrusters just rip through xenon at an insane rate compared to argon. So much so that I don't see the point in using it.

Well, they do weight about the same though, 50 units of xenon are slightly heavier than 1 argon, but unless you are using modular fuels, it's somewhat useless as there isn't big enough tank.

[Fractal_UK]

Well that's a little...extreme. No wonder it seems like plasma thrusters just rip through xenon at an insane rate compared to argon. So much so that I don't see the point in using it.

The number of units is irrelevant, they're a totally arbitrary unit and don't necessarily represent anything. Electric engines burn through xenon because those engines provide the least Isp and stock xenon containers have very poor mass ratios.

[Jasmir]

Hi there,

i've still problems with the fusion-reactors. They still keep going to go random offline if not focused and on high timewarps _if_ the vessel is focused.

On high timewarps, the tritium-breedings yields much less outcome that the same reactor on the same high timewarp, but not focused.

Fuel is in the reactor, the wasteheat evens out at half filled.

Here is my quicksave.sfs. The Vessel "Mothership" has the problem very often. Maybe docking/undocking triggers that problem?

[Einarr]

You certain the WasteHeat remains evened out during timewarping? For me and others it will start fluctuating at really high timewarps, high enough perhaps to cause an automatic shutdown of various components (such as the generator, which could cut the power needed to keep the reactor itself going, depending on your setup).

[phoenix_ca]

The number of units is irrelevant, they're a totally arbitrary unit and don't necessarily represent anything. Electric engines burn through xenon because those engines provide the least Isp and stock xenon containers have very poor mass ratios.

Uh, well yes and no. I mean yes it's an arbitrary unit, but it does kinda matter in-so-far as the total delta-v available per unit mass, which you pointed-out yourself. If the delta-v available for a single unit of mass of xenon is a fiftieth of that available for argon, then in practical terms, that doesn't really leave it much utility. O.o

But as...what's their name pointed out, 50 units xenon is about 1 unit of argon in terms of weight, so whatever.

Edited April 28, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[CCoops11]

You can download it from the server with this link: http://www.kspmodders.com/treeedit/backend.php?op=treeload&id=15

Just save it as tree.cfg

Thanks! I've downloaded and saved as tree.cfg but I get a completely blank tech tree. I've tried with old career saves and with a new one. Is there a specific way the document needs to be formatted, or am I confused when I think that all I have to do is drop it in my save file?

[Logris]

I've just had a better look, and there is an updated tree.cfg in the GameData\WarpPlugin folder (should have come with the mod).

Try copying that to your save folder, and make sure there isn't a notree.cfg file.

[artforz]

Hi there,

i've still problems with the fusion-reactors. They still keep going to go random offline if not focused and on high timewarps _if_ the vessel is focused.

On high timewarps, the tritium-breedings yields much less outcome that the same reactor on the same high timewarp, but not focused.

Fuel is in the reactor, the wasteheat evens out at half filled.

Here is my quicksave.sfs. The Vessel "Mothership" has the problem very often. Maybe docking/undocking triggers that problem?

For the tritium breeding, I'm pretty sure it's a bug in the amount calculation.

As it currently is is, we basically have

trit_rate = <constant> * max total power * total active% when on rails and

trit_rate = <constant> * current thermal power * (1-chargedparticleratio) when focused...

put another way, if we fully load the reactor we get

rails trit_rate = <constant> * max power

vs

focused trit_rate = <constant> * max power * (1-chargedparticleratio)²

That can't possibly be right.

@Fractal_UK:

Is breeding rate supposed to be based on total output power times 1-chargedParticleRatio? Then https://github.com/ArtForz/KSPInterstellar/commit/7034d39c79fe174ea25dadae1985f114dad2142d should be the proper calculation.

If it's supposed to be based on total output power times 1-chargedParticleRatio when on rails and thermal output power when active, then the change in onStart is still correct and in OnFixedUpdate

tritium_rate = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / 1000.0f / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate)*(1-chargedParticleRatio);

should be

tritium_rate = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / 1000.0f / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate);

[Aedile]

Actually, I made a ship carrying both 54000 units xenon, and 1080 argon. The resulting dv ratio is exactly as dictated by the jet's isp ratio.

This is not due to interstellar though, in the stock game xenon has the same odd small unit compared to LF or oxidizer.

It's just -

A. a bit confusing before you figure out the unit weirdness. Since they are same use, its slightly weird.

B. lacking a big enough xenon tank.

But then the weird way Isp works in KSP...

BTW do plasma jets/thermal nozzle vary trust or fuel consumption?

[paelleon]

Hi, I have some questions about reactors lifespan. I built a nework of Akula reactors and relays in Kerbin orbit and wish to send an ATTILA rocket to Eve and return. The waiting time for the launch window is 270 days. All the trasmitters are active at 100%.

- will the reactors last that long?

- if not, how can I made them stay on without being compelled to switch the view from one satellite to the other, one by one, and activate the onboard IRSU?

- Can I attach to them a number of fuel cannister to increase the quantity of uranium onboard?

- Is there some method to have a maintenance free power network? I tried with big solar satellites on low Kerbol orbit (500000 km), but I can squeeze only 100MW from each.

My wish is to avoid being compelled to turn on/off the whole power network at every burn of my interplanetary ships. It would be much easier to use the stock LV-N!

Thank you.

[WaveFunctionP]

rails trit_rate = <constant> * max power

vs

focused trit_rate = <constant> * max power * (1-chargedparticleratio)²

That can't possibly be right.

@Fractal_UK:

Is breeding rate supposed to be based on total output power times 1-chargedParticleRatio? Then https://github.com/ArtForz/KSPInterstellar/commit/7034d39c79fe174ea25dadae1985f114dad2142d should be the proper calculation.

If it's supposed to be based on total output power times 1-chargedParticleRatio when on rails and thermal output power when active, then the change in onStart is still correct and in OnFixedUpdate

tritium_rate = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / 1000.0f / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate)*(1-chargedParticleRatio);

should be

tritium_rate = (float)(thermal_power_received / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime / 1000.0f / GameConstants.tritiumBreedRate);

It would still not be correct, since you are assuming maximum power output. Which is not always the case. Remember the that thermal generators will only consume charged particles if it runs out of thermal power to meet demand. Which gives us the problem that fusion reactors are having right now with two generators.

There also appears to be a bug with fuel modes.

protected void setupFuelMode() {
            if (fuel_mode == 0) {
                fuelmodeStr = GameConstants.deuterium_tritium_fuel_mode;
                powerRequirements = initial_laser_consumption;
                chargedParticleRatio = 0.21f;
                resourceRate = initial_resource_rate;
                if (isTokomak) {
                    ThermalPower = initial_thermal_power;
                }
            } else if (fuel_mode == 1) {
                fuelmodeStr = GameConstants.deuterium_helium3_fuel_mode;
                powerRequirements = initial_laser_consumption*4f;
                chargedParticleRatio = 0.8f;
                if (isTokomak) {
                    resourceRate = resourceRate / 13.25f;
                    ThermalPower = initial_thermal_power / 13.25f * 1.03977f;
                } else {
                    resourceRate = initial_resource_rate / 1.03977f;
                }
            } else {
                fuelmodeStr = GameConstants.helium3_fuel_mode;
                powerRequirements = initial_laser_consumption*7.31f;
                chargedParticleRatio = 1.0f;
                if (isTokomak) {
                    resourceRate = resourceRate / 17;
                    ThermalPower = initial_thermal_power / 17 * 0.7329545f;
                } else {
                    resourceRate = initial_resource_rate / 0.7329545f;
                }
            }
        }

It is slight, but I'm pretty sure that d/t mode is supposed to be .2f charged particles, and d/he3 is supposed to be .79f.

Edited April 28, 2014 by WaveFunctionP