[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[undercoveryankee]

ISRU Processing... nope. That's hard-coded.

Though makes me wonder how hard it'd be to generalize the concept and turn all the copypasta in FNRefinery into a part file configured generic "x of A + y of B + z MJ (which is really just a special case of the more general C, D, E, ...) -> some of this + some of that + ..." FNResourceProcessor module.

KethaneConverter and TACGenericConverter do basically this. The only reason the plugin would need to have a complete list of possible conversions would be to enforce rules on which conversions could be operating at the same time as which others.

[Boamere]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-23-KSP-Interstellar-%28Thermal-Helper-Solar-Sail-Impactors-Fusion%29-Version-0-10-3?p=685428&viewfull=1#post685428

Added to https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Alcubierre-Drive so it doesn't get buried.

Thank you

[Woodstar]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-23-KSP-Interstellar-%28Thermal-Helper-Solar-Sail-Impactors-Fusion%29-Version-0-10-3?p=685428&viewfull=1#post685428

Added to https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Alcubierre-Drive so it doesn't get buried.

Do i just drop this in gamedata or is there anything else? Because the github page says something about editing.

[Aedile]

"New and improved atmosphere, now with 134% extractable resources.":D

As for ISRU... I suspect for land/ocean resource extraction you could add FNModuleResourceExtraction for new resources to the ISRU via MM (or create your own "miner" part that has a bunch of FNModuleResourceExtraction).

ISRU Processing... nope. That's hard-coded.

Though makes me wonder how hard it'd be to generalize the concept and turn all the copypasta in FNRefinery into a part file configured generic "x of A + y of B + z MJ (which is really just a special case of the more general C, D, E, ...) -> some of this + some of that + ..." FNResourceProcessor module.

Luckily the new MM can do some math.

Hmm, well TAC life support has generic converter, so it's certainly possible.

On the intakes - I don's seem to manage this - I managed to add it to atmosphere, and have it appear on the scoop, but can't actually collect any (tried even with 20% concentration, but no luck). I have empty water container and everything - but still no luck. If i change it to collect water as oxidizer, there is no problem.

What is nitrogen supposed to produce when scooped?

[philotical]

Sorry, upon viewing the ATM page again, I see they no longer have that instruction. All I had to do was load KSP with the ATM and Warpplugin. After the initial load, I went into the Gamedata folder and deleted the WarpPlugin file from the ATM folder. Presto. I don't know if this will still be effective, as they have removed it, but it worked perfectly for me. Doing this also removed the lag when trying to deactivate the drive, making my jumps much more accurate.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-23-Release-3-0-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs!

I would also recommend Action Groups Extended, it will allow you to use your action groups from the map page. Very good for FTL.

Got it - it works.. thanks :-D

AGE is one of my favorite since a while :-)

Ok here is the HowTo for all others (will be posted in the wiki soon):

1.)

- Install KSP, Active Texture Management (Agressive) and KSPInterstellar.

ATM: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-23-Release-3-0-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs

- run KSP at least once with these settings

- close KSP

- open GameData/BouldeCo/ActiveTextureManagerConfigs/

- Delete the file "WarpPlugin.cfg"

- WarpTrail is fixed

2.) after that, I suggest to install this package:

Green Skull ATM configs v1.0

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-23-5-Release-3-1-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs!?p=1116712&viewfull=1#post1116712

It will overwrite some of the ATM files and it seems to increase the performance quite a bit!

Additionally it handles the warptrail specifically in it's configs.

The result is impressive and the warp trail is still colorfull.

Thanks to all participants and contributors:

Atrius129, rbray89 (ATM/BoulderCo), Green Skull

Here is the wiki Page:

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Know-Issues-and-Work-Arounds

Edited May 9, 2014 by philotical

[Atrius129]

@philotical

Glad to help.

Could one of you Warp Drive gurus write up the Advanced Navigation guide so that the rest of us can learn to effectively navigate without needing much in the way of sublight engine burns?

*SPOILERS*

It does take a bit to get used to. I use planetary gravitation to change the velocity. If you need to burn off V simply fall away from the planet and keep warping back next to as close as you can. It helps if you do planetary transfers when both of the planets are lined up in relation to Kerbol (eg. Kerbin at 12 oclock, Jool at 12) This means that their relative velocity will be at their closest, requiring the fewest deltaV jumps. Otherwise you may end of with an orbital velocity of 10-20 kM/s. Still doable, but will take a long time bleeding off that V with smaller planets.

[undercoveryankee]

Do i just drop this in gamedata or is there anything else? Because the github page says something about editing.

The provided config files give the collapsible parts the same internal name as the original warp drive parts. A name conflict can cause the game to display a different model in flight than you saw in the VAB, so you'll want to give them unique names if you want to keep the original version as well.

If you change the names, then they're no longer referenced in tree.cfg, so they show up in Experimental Electrics even if you're using the Interstellar tech tree. You may also want to change their TechRequired if this matters to you.

[artforz]

On the intakes - I don's seem to manage this - I managed to add it to atmosphere, and have it appear on the scoop, but can't actually collect any (tried even with 20% concentration, but no luck). I have empty water container and everything - but still no luck. If i change it to collect water as oxidizer, there is no problem.

LqdWater is flow mode STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH, and the only water tank in stock KSPi is a radial... put a fuel line going from the empty water tank to the stack the scoop is in and it should work.

As for the Nitrogen... no idea. Looks like KSPi doesn't turn it into a tank-able resource and the only place it's used is in a check in the Refinery for the Haber Process (only works if atmospheric density * atmospheric nitrogen abundance is >= 0.1). Odd.

[undercoveryankee]

As for the Nitrogen... no idea. Looks like KSPi doesn't turn it into a tank-able resource and the only place it's used is in a check in the Refinery for the Haber Process (only works if atmospheric density * atmospheric nitrogen abundance is >= 0.1). Odd.

In other words, the refinery wants to draw nitrogen from the atmosphere at the time of use. Similar to how you have to be splashed to centrifuge deuterium; you don't have the option to put water in tanks, carry it somewhere more solid, and then centrifuge it.

If Fractal had added nitrogen as a storable resource, that would require new tanks, figuring out its performance as thermal-rocket or plasma propellant, and various other things that would make the update feel incomplete if they weren't done. Having the refinery access the atmosphere directly for now seems like as good a place to limit the scope of the last update as any.

[Gaugeforever]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new, can anyone help me with the radiators? My main issue is that radiators have a metric for how much heat they radiate, while parts don't have a metric for waste heat generation.

Can anyone help me figure out how to compute this. I'm going for a somewhat realistic play through, so I want to make craft as light as possible. I also don't want to waste launches, and that means doing the math before the launch.

[Fox42]

I just tried to do some research with a Science Laboratory in orbit. I do have more than enough solar panels tp get the needed 5MW. Now I read: "In order to produce science with the Science Lab you need 5MW of energy from a Generator/Reactor or a Microwave Receiver. It is independent of the E/C you have." - Seriously?? I need to add a power transmitter to beam the power from my vessel and add a receiver to the same vessel to receive the same power??? I can't use the power directly from the solar panels? - Already thinking of a module consisting of two transceivers coupled into some kind of "electricity to electricity converter"... oO

[jinks]

I seem to have a problem with the Computer Core.

No matter what I do, the Electric Charge is set to NaN/0.0. I checked the part.cfg, the config as seen in the Debug Menu (both say 1000/1000) and all the logs, there's no indication why the settings aren't accepted.

I'm using WaveFunctionP's experimental version.

Any ideas?

[Einarr]

Poor Jeb...

Had to do some testing in a Sandbox save to ensure that my warp trails are no longer black (they aren't anymore!). However, I seem to have gone to the Space Center while still at warp, resulting in a metric crapton (~65km/sec or more anywhere in the inner system) of delta v to burn off...far more than my fuel supply allows. I started the process at Kerbin, but decided to move to Eve due to Eve's higher gravity. I'm toying with the idea of trying to skim through some place's upper atmoshpere for some aerobraking...but I'm thinking it'd be suicide anywhere (I have Deadly Reentry installed).

I could just terminate the flight and delete the Sandbox save, but this gives me an opportunity to practice this sort of thing...though I'll likely be quite tired of it by the time I'm done...

[phoenix_ca]

I seem to have a problem with the Computer Core.

No matter what I do, the Electric Charge is set to NaN/0.0. I checked the part.cfg, the config as seen in the Debug Menu (both say 1000/1000) and all the logs, there's no indication why the settings aren't accepted.

I'm using WaveFunctionP's experimental version.

Any ideas?

There are some issues in the KSPI code that haven't been fixed yet, but getting NaN entries for resources on KSPI parts seems to happen on occasion. Your best bet is to work around the problem by editing the value in your persistence file. (If you don't already, I highly suggest using Notepad++ on Windows, Geany on Linux, or TextMate 2 on OS X to do your editing. The persistence file is rather large and not something you want to step into without a program that at least supports decent folding.)

Had to do some testing in a Sandbox save to ensure that my warp trails are no longer black (they aren't anymore!). However, I seem to have gone to the Space Center while still at warp, resulting in a metric crapton (~65km/sec or more anywhere in the inner system) of delta v to burn off...far more than my fuel supply allows. I started the process at Kerbin, but decided to move to Eve due to Eve's higher gravity. I'm toying with the idea of trying to skim through some place's upper atmoshpere for some aerobraking...but I'm thinking it'd be suicide anywhere (I have Deadly Reentry installed).

Apparently, bad things happen when saving or switching scenes while at warp. Simple solution: Don't do it. Ever. Only save or change scenes when a ship is not using KSPI warp.

More complex fix for your problem: Go into your persistence file and edit it. Alternately, you could use HyperEdit to undo the error in-game.

I'd go with HyperEdit. Editing orbits via the persistence file is a serious pain in the ass.

Edited May 10, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[milbournosphere]

In space or on the pad? Thermal nozzles only provide 40% of their vacuum ISP and thrust at sea level on Kerbin.

That was indeed the case. I read the fine manual again and found that statement in the wiki this time. Thanks for dealing with the basic question.

[WaveFunctionP]

I seem to have a problem with the Computer Core.

No matter what I do, the Electric Charge is set to NaN/0.0. I checked the part.cfg, the config as seen in the Debug Menu (both say 1000/1000) and all the logs, there's no indication why the settings aren't accepted.

I'm using WaveFunctionP's experimental version.

Any ideas?

People have been reporting NaN's for various resources in stock kspi. I don't not know the cause. Probably because I don't understand how OSR works.

[Einarr]

ORS works? *ba dum bum...*

[undercoveryankee]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new, can anyone help me with the radiators? My main issue is that radiators have a metric for how much heat they radiate, while parts don't have a metric for waste heat generation.

Can anyone help me figure out how to compute this. I'm going for a somewhat realistic play through, so I want to make craft as light as possible. I also don't want to waste launches, and that means doing the math before the launch.

Solar panels generate waste heat equal to half their power production (1 EC/sec = 1 KW ==> 500 W waste heat). For reactors, waste heat is whatever power is generated and not converted to some other form of energy. I.e. if the reactor is driving a generator that's 20% efficient, the other 80% of the power you generate ends up as waste heat. Since generator efficiency depends on radiator temperature, and radiator temperature depends on the amount of waste heat generated, the math ends up a little over my head.

Microwave receivers are 85% efficient, so 15% of what you receive ends up as waste heat. Microwave thermal receivers work like a reactor: anything that isn't consumed by a thermal rocket or converted to electricity by a generator ends up as waste heat.

As far as I can tell, nothing in Interstellar generates waste heat unless it generates power.

Instead of trying to calculate the total waste heat generated, I normally just use the thermal helper window in the VAB. (On Interstellar 0.10.3, press "I" in the VAB; on 0.11, it's a Toolbar button. If it's not showing, you may have to "Configure visible buttons".)

[bonesbro]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new, can anyone help me with the radiators? My main issue is that radiators have a metric for how much heat they radiate, while parts don't have a metric for waste heat generation.

Can anyone help me figure out how to compute this. I'm going for a somewhat realistic play through, so I want to make craft as light as possible. I also don't want to waste launches, and that means doing the math before the launch.

There's a Thermal Helper in the VAB. It has a toolbar button, and you can also show it with the "i" key.

The short version is that electric panels generate heat in levels similar to the power they generate (I think it's power/2). 1 electric charge/sec is 1 kw/s, so it generates 0.5 kw heat. Reactors generate heat equal to their power output, so a 120MW fission reactor generates 120MW of heat.

[undercoveryankee]

I just tried to do some research with a Science Laboratory in orbit. I do have more than enough solar panels tp get the needed 5MW. Now I read: "In order to produce science with the Science Lab you need 5MW of energy from a Generator/Reactor or a Microwave Receiver. It is independent of the E/C you have." - Seriously?? I need to add a power transmitter to beam the power from my vessel and add a receiver to the same vessel to receive the same power??? I can't use the power directly from the solar panels? - Already thinking of a module consisting of two transceivers coupled into some kind of "electricity to electricity converter"... oO

Fractal has said that the next version of Interstellar will convert EC to Megajoules when the EC bar is full. (Scott Manley thought his solar power satellites should be able to power their own plasma thrusters. If Scott Manley wishes for something on air, it's probably worth doing.) Until then, I've wondered whether anything would break horribly if you configured a KethaneConverter to generate Megajoules.

[Gaugeforever]

Solar panels generate waste heat equal to half their power production (1 EC/sec = 1 KW ==> 500 W waste heat). For reactors, waste heat is whatever power is generated and not converted to some other form of energy. I.e. if the reactor is driving a generator that's 20% efficient, the other 80% of the power you generate ends up as waste heat. Since generator efficiency depends on radiator temperature, and radiator temperature depends on the amount of waste heat generated, the math ends up a little over my head.

Microwave receivers are 85% efficient, so 15% of what you receive ends up as waste heat. Microwave thermal receivers work like a reactor: anything that isn't consumed by a thermal rocket or converted to electricity by a generator ends up as waste heat.

As far as I can tell, nothing in Interstellar generates waste heat unless it generates power.

Instead of trying to calculate the total waste heat generated, I normally just use the thermal helper window in the VAB. (On Interstellar 0.10.3, press "I" in the VAB; on 0.11, it's a Toolbar button. If it's not showing, you may have to "Configure visible buttons".)

Just to make sure I have this correct. I have 4 1x6 solar panels which generate 2 EC/s each. That's 8 EC/s which is 4000 Watts Waste heat.

Now I look a small radial radiator. Its performance at 2400KM (I will be geo stationary), is .4703234MW, so we multiply this by a million and get 470,323.4 W of cooling off of one tiny little radiator. Is this correct? So basically one small radiator will be all I will need for some time to come.

[phoenix_ca]

If Scott Manley wishes for something on air, it's probably worth doing.

He also said in a video that random component failures would be interesting, like engines flaming-out because of some simulated internal failure, or fuel pumps stopped working, or dishes not opening. Those are horrible ideas from a gameplay perspective, because all it would really do is make players hit "revert flight" more often.

[WaveFunctionP]

He also said in a video that random component failures would be interesting, like engines flaming-out because of some simulated internal failure, or fuel pumps stopped working, or dishes not opening. Those are horrible ideas from a gameplay perspective, because all it would really do is make players hit "revert flight" more often.

^^ this.

Manley is a great communicator, and I watch all of his videos. But that does not mean he is a good game developer. Neverless, feedback is always good.

Edited May 10, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[Gaugeforever]

Just to make sure I have this correct. I have 4 1x6 solar panels which generate 2 EC/s each. That's 8 EC/s which is 4000 Watts Waste heat.

Now I look a small radial radiator. Its performance at 2400KM (I will be geo stationary), is .4703234MW, so we multiply this by a million and get 470,323.4 W of cooling off of one tiny little radiator. Is this correct? So basically one small radiator will be all I will need for some time to come.

Well although this is the math that was provided, it did not seem to work out in practice, one small radiator was gathering waste heat with just 4, 1x6 solar arrays. What am I missing?

EDIT: After searching this thread, apparently radiators need to heat up to work. What IS NOT in this thread is a way to determine exactly how big of a radiator you need to be efficient. I'm sitting here in game looking at the thermal helper and the radiator information, none of the metrics match up. This makes it very frustrating. I don't want to just say "slap a huge one on there and be it will ok", I want to be efficient.

Can someone PLEASE help me in this regard. I'm guessing one small radiator is fine for 4, 1x6 solar panels, but I would really like to know why, and how to find out the max of what this radiator actually could handle.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Gaugeforever

[ArcFurnace]

What do you mean by "efficient"?. For the thermal generators, the lower your radiator temperature, the more efficient the generator will be (heat engine efficiency gets better as the high temperature gets higher and the low temperature gets lower- the radiators are the low temperature, and the reactor temperature is the high temperature). Solar panels aren't thermal generators, though; they don't care how hot your radiators are. As long as your WasteHeat is below the 95% or so level at which you start to have problems, you're fine.

If the text on the Thermal Helper is green, that means that the heat generation on your vessel is less than the maximum heat that can be radiated from the radiators currently mounted on your ship, and thus you will never reach dangerous levels of overheating. For generators this will apply everywhere (their max power output is their max power output), for solar panels the heat (and power) they generate increases as you get closer to Kerbol- a ship with a single tiny radiator that would never overheat in Kerbin orbit might have problems if you put it on a sundiver trajectory. You can adjust the distance from Kerbol in the Thermal Helper to see if you've got enough radiators on your solar-powered ship; the default distance is Kerbin orbit.

If you're not diving down real close to Kerbol, a single tiny radial radiator is going to be enough for all but the most absurd arrays of solar panels (as you've noted, the maximum dissipation from that single radiator is enough for more than 900 EC/s worth of solar power). They just don't generate enough heat to really notice, because their power levels are so low compared to the thermal reactors. Fusion or antimatter reactors, now, those need lots of radiators, especially if you don't have the upgrade that lets you run said radiators at the higher maximum temperature.

Edited May 10, 2014 by ArcFurnace