[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[MaLuS]

Love the mod, one question the magnetic nozzles, how does one use them? I have tried using them as a normal engine with LF... nothing, tried using them with MJ power generation(with LF)... nothing, attached them onto the reactor for thermal (with MJ power & LF)... nothing, attached them to the WH to MJ converters(with LF)... nothing, tried charged particles (with LF)... nothing, even tried attaching them onto other engines... nothing. btw the attachment node is too low on the non-exhaust end so it attaches with a space between it an whatever you attach too.

what am I missing?

[ArcFurnace]

Love the mod, one question the magnetic nozzles, how does one use them? I have tried using them as a normal engine with LF... nothing, tried using them with MJ power generation(with LF)... nothing, attached them onto the reactor for thermal (with MJ power & LF)... nothing, attached them to the WH to MJ converters(with LF)... nothing, tried charged particles (with LF)... nothing, even tried attaching them onto other engines... nothing. btw the attachment node is too low on the non-exhaust end so it attaches with a space between it an whatever you attach too.

what am I missing?

Are you testing them on the ground? Fractal has stated earlier in the thread that the magnetic nozzles have basically no performance in-atmosphere.

[MaLuS]

Are you testing them on the ground? Fractal has stated earlier in the thread that the magnetic nozzles have basically no performance in-atmosphere.

it doesn't show any indication that its running, that was on launchpad yes, will try tomorrow in space

[Northstar1989]

Second, I wanted to support Tweakscale; with 60+ mods, my parts menu is VERY cluttered as-is with LSPI-Lite and over 50 parts disabled or removed. Also, a general note on Tweakscale and mass scaling: I thought realistic tank scaling was non-linear at one point myself. Turns out, this isnt the case. All tanks for space craft are actually pressure vessels, even when the contents are just at STP. Space is a vacuum, thus unless the fuel is at like 1/100th STP, it's going to scale more or less linearly because the tank's pressure increases with it's size. Strictly linearly in the case of highly pressurized gasses like Xenon and Argon whose tanks can't be built larger than a fixed size practically. The only real factors in tank weight that may not be linear are things like outer shells and structural elements. The tanks themselves are mostly linear, and at a certain point, all tanks become linear because we do not have the material structural integrity to build larger tanks, and instead tanks must simply be duplicated for more volume.

Surprisingly, you're right.

It took some research of my own to confirm what you were saying, but apparently because the structural stresses on a fuel tank wall increase in proportion to not only the pressure, but also the volume of the tank, the tank mass does indeed scale linearly with fuel volume.

Notice that there is no place in the equation for the weight of the propellant- a fuel tank at STP will weigh the same regardless of whether it's holding 2 tons of LH2 or 16 tons of CH4, for instance... (which would have exactly the same volume and pressure)

Of course, the 16 tons of CH4 will be worth a lot more Delta-V, even with the lower ISP from burning it or using it directly in thermal rocketry... (and the operating pressures using methane will be lower for the same thrust due to the higher molecular mass- meaning you can save weight on the engine or achieve much higher thrust for the same chamber pressures...)

Makes me wonder why ANYBODY in their right mind would ever use LH2/LOX instead of hydrocarbons (CH4/LOX or Kerosene/LOX) for propulsion in the Earth-Moon system... The higher ISP of LH2/LOX doesn't become worth the lower fuel density and/or higher tank mass unless you are transporting them a TRULY large Delta-V gap- like to Mars or Jupiter- in which case boil-off is a serious issue... And Kero/LOX or Metha/LOX rockets will be SMALLER than LH2/LOX rockets, thanks to their higher fuel density- which means they will experience less atmospheric drag losses during ascent thanks to their better Ballistic Coefficients...

Regards,

Northstar

[Shalashalska]

I think you might be forgetting that you need 10 km/s to get to LEO, then another 4-5 km/s to get to the moon, then another 4 to land and get back, and another 2 to transfer back. With all that, it makes sense to use LH2, though not by a lot.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Shalashalska

[code99]

Hey guys, is there a version of the mod compatible with 24.2 KSP around by any chance?

I haven't upgraded to 25 because some of the mods im using haven't been updated yet.

Used this mod before, in 23.5 and loved it.

[Tebryn]

Hey guys, is there a version of the mod compatible with 24.2 KSP around by any chance?

I haven't upgraded to 25 because some of the mods im using haven't been updated yet.

Used this mod before, in 23.5 and loved it.

I believe that V0.12.2 is the last build on KSP .24.2

[xfrankie]

Hey guys, is there a version of the mod compatible with 24.2 KSP around by any chance? ...

I believe that V0.12.2 is the last build on KSP .24.2

I was just flying with the latest Interstellar (v0.13) in KSP 0.24.2 and I haven't noticed anything wrong...

But it was just a sandbox testing of the magnetic nozzles, so a new career save may have some problems.

===========================================================================

Speaking of testing, I built a simple vessel and launched it three times with three different engines. A magnetic nozzle, a plasma engine and a DT Vista (in this order).

Power source was an AIM reactor without antimatter (non-tweakable in VAB). The AM was collected by 4 part-clipped collectors while in flight. Getting enough of it to run the reactor at sufficiently high % to keep me from falling back to Kerbin was a challenge in itself...

First stage included a simple chemical rocket (around 3k dV), second stage was the tested engine.

The plan was to aim for a 400k apoapsis, with as much lateral velocity as I could get, then circularize, collect some AM to run reactor at 100%, and aim for a 900km orbit & screenshot remaining LiquidFuel and dV (MechJeb) afterwards. The first two launches followed the plan relatively successfully, the Vista not so much...

Results:

Magnetic nozzle, while producing around 140kN of thrust, was able to circularize before reaching the first apoapsis (400km). It had to fire the whole way up, but it did it.

LF 750; 7,1k dV

I had to throttle up a bit to show max thrust.

Plasma thruster was a little bit more difficult to operate. It fired all the way up as well (70kN using LF), but didn't manage to get a stable orbit whatsoever before reaching apoapsis. I got a 150km periapsis on the way back down towards Kerbin, fully circularizing during the next orbit.

LF 753; 6,7k dV

It has about 1k less Isp, therefore the dV difference despite having simillar amount of LF.

And then, there's Vista... Not only did I screw up the ascend, resulting in a 270km AP instead of 400, but the bloody thing still managed to recover and get to 900km apoapsis directly, without the need to circ. at 400km at all... Also it had the most LiquidFuel left afterwards.

LF 771; dV irrelevant - changes with thrust (at one moment MechJeb showed about 80k)

So there's the comparison of those three engines. Remember that you need ChargedParticles to run the magnetic nozzle (just like you need ThermalPower to run a thermal nozzle).

I understand that the Vista is further down the science tree, but there's not much point in using anything else once you get it.

edit: Also interesting thing about magnetic nozzles, .cfg show Isp of 36k in vacuum while I was getting 12k... Might be caused by the type of reactor I used, gotta test it some more...

edit 2: so strangely enough, Isp on AIM reactor is the same 12k both in vacuum and on launchpad (getting 0 thrust on launchpad, though) and fusion reactors get less Isp than particle-bed reactors...

Edited October 11, 2014 by xfrankie

[Colseg]

This is a model I have been working on recently, I saw that Fractal needed a model for a radial thermal adapter so I thought I would try my hand at it, it is my first time making a model so I am not sure how the end result will turn out and I still need to make a texture but I am learning.

I am also working on a model for the Aluminium Hybrid Rocket where I have split the Engine with the Aluminium off as a separate part from a dedicated oxidizer tank to give a bit more design flexibility, with the amount of aluminium that is included (5.86 tons) the engine section will be smaller than a mainsail due to that quantity of presumably powdered aluminium taking up quite a small space and the oxidizer tank I haven't worked on yet however it will include the same amount as the current engine stores internally or you could use other third party oxidizer tanks for further flexibility. The model for the hybrid engine isn't in a state worth presenting yet however I am collaborating with a friend who spent a number of years as an avid rocket drafting hobbyist so that I can design it as realistically as I can.

Hopefully the models turn out good enough to be useful to Fractal, also any criticism or suggestions are always welcome, so far the model isn't much and it is really just meant to look like some heat pipes going from the part it is attached to to a stack node.

[Miro Beero]

Has anyone tried this with the latest .25?

I setup my tech tree with "Intersteller" tree.

When I research a node, the rest of the tree does not show till you leave and go back in. (Nothing crazy - but just a small glitch).

[trash0551]

When I research a node, the rest of the tree does not show till you leave and go back in. (Nothing crazy - but just a small glitch).

Hi everyone,

besides this most of the KSPI nodes are missing for me. Namely the "Experimental Electrics", "Particle Accelerators", "Antimatter Power", "Fusion Power" and "Ultra-High-Energy-Physics" ones so I can't really progress to the interesting technologies. This was a fresh career with KSPI installed.

[AetherGoddess]

Hi everyone,

besides this most of the KSPI nodes are missing for me. Namely the "Experimental Electrics", "Particle Accelerators", "Antimatter Power", "Fusion Power" and "Ultra-High-Energy-Physics" ones so I can't really progress to the interesting technologies. This was a fresh career with KSPI installed.

as has been stated many many many times in this thread and in the Lite thread, Treeloader, the method with which KSPi creates new research nodes, is unmaintained and has some blocking issues with the .25 update. the author hasn't been around much recently, the last update was for .23.5, and the license is "all rights reserved, for reference only", so we can't even fix it in his absence.

very likely, this will continue to be a problem until a clean room replacement is mature enough, which might be a while, since there aren't even any development projects right now that could eventually grow into something like treeloader.

[crushanato]

Hi everyone I am having a strange problem. I am unable to extract lqdwater on the surfaces of minmus or vall. but I am however able to extract water from the oceans of kerbin and laythe. Anybody know what might be causing this?

[trash0551]

as has been stated many many many times in this thread and in the Lite thread, Treeloader, the method with which KSPi creates new research nodes, is unmaintained and has some blocking issues with the .25 update. the author hasn't been around much recently, the last update was for .23.5, and the license is "all rights reserved, for reference only", so we can't even fix it in his absence.

very likely, this will continue to be a problem until a clean room replacement is mature enough, which might be a while, since there aren't even any development projects right now that could eventually grow into something like treeloader.

Yes but there has to be some work-around, right? Otherwise this mod is essentially not really usable in career mode.

[Drew Kerman]

Yes but there has to be some work-around, right?

yea there is, you just need to do a bit of legwork. The part.cfg files tell you what node they are supposed to be in, the tree.cfg file tells you how much a node costs (and node requirements), and the persistent.sfs file has the science amount you can manually subtract from to purchase a node. You'll just have to do some editing to move the parts you "unlocked" into an existing node for you to use.

I'm not far enough in the tree to bother with all that, but that's my plan for when it comes to it if there's no TreeLoader alternative by then

[Miro Beero]

I'm missing something...

why does this mode have the title:

[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

where the [0.25] is listed?...shouldn't the [x.xx] be the last version its compatible with?

[undercoveryankee]

I'm missing something...

why does this mode have the title:

[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

where the [0.25] is listed?...shouldn't the [x.xx] be the last version its compatible with?

It's listed as compatible with 0.25 because the only thing that's broken is TreeLoader. In this state, saying it's compatible with 0.25 is less wrong than saying it isn't.

[Miro Beero]

It's listed as compatible with 0.25 because the only thing that's broken is TreeLoader. In this state, saying it's compatible with 0.25 is less wrong than saying it isn't.

But from what I am reading in prior replies, if the treeloader is broken, then you have no way of getting to the parts to purchase/research the tree nodes - correct?

You actually have to go edit a config file yourself to unlock those nodes or something like that.

[Atrius129]

I am having an issue that I don't think is an Interstellar problem, but maybe somebody could point me in the right direction.

I got all updated to .25 and most of my mods are working. So far, ATM and Procedural Parts are two of the mods left that have not yet updated to be compatible.

I finally got to a point where the game is running somewhat smoothly again, except from the Tracking Station I can't access any of my pre .25 vessels. I can't select them, and the buttons are greyed out:

http://imgur.com/4oLZsdf (for some reason neither the imgur or spoiler tags are not working for me right now)

I have removed ATM until a fix is ready, and my system seems OK with that. Is it because I have Procedural Parts on pretty much all of my vessels? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I wanted to see if anybody had experienced this issue before I have to revert back to .24.2

Output Log

Edited October 12, 2014 by Atrius129

[undercoveryankee]

But from what I am reading in prior replies, if the treeloader is broken, then you have no way of getting to the parts to purchase/research the tree nodes - correct?

You actually have to go edit a config file yourself to unlock those nodes or something like that.

All of the parts are configured to appear in stock nodes without further config editing if you remove TreeLoader entirely. It's not as balanced as the full tree, but it's playable.

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

This has probably been pointed out already, but the Magnetic Nozzles have a somewhat misplaced attachment node. They seem to hover behind the piece they're attached to. :/

[marchingknight11]

So I've made a very slight modification to the TreeLoader source and recompiled a DLL that works in .25. Problem is, I can't distribute the DLL, but I'm not sure if I can distribute instructions on how people can manually recompile their own version.

Thoughts?

[AetherGoddess]

So I've made a very slight modification to the TreeLoader source and recompiled a DLL that works in .25. Problem is, I can't distribute the DLL, but I'm not sure if I can distribute instructions on how people can manually recompile their own version.

Thoughts?

in the strictest sense, you've already violated the license on treeloader, since the only right granted was "reference only", and compiling isn't reference. now, realistically, i don't think anyone would complain too much, but you'd be "in the wrong", legally speaking, if anyone at all did download and use your instructions, the would also be violating the original license, so would also be "in the wrong".

Edited October 11, 2014 by AetherGoddess
oops, directions are not distributions.

[Fractal_UK]

So I've made a very slight modification to the TreeLoader source and recompiled a DLL that works in .25. Problem is, I can't distribute the DLL, but I'm not sure if I can distribute instructions on how people can manually recompile their own version.

Thoughts?

That's a tricky question. Compiling your own version of TreeLoader, even for personal use, would technically be against the license agreement.

I don't know if distributing a set of instructions on how to fix it would be against the license, I suspect that technically it isn't but I also suspect that since those instructions would only be of interest to people who wanted to compile a dll in violation of the license agreement, the mods would probably not be very sympathetic to the idea.

[andrestirabo]

So I've made a very slight modification to the TreeLoader source and recompiled a DLL that works in .25. Problem is, I can't distribute the DLL, but I'm not sure if I can distribute instructions on how people can manually recompile their own version.

Thoughts?

Upload the recompiled version, nobody is going to prison:wink: