[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Fractal_UK]

This also seems to fix the problem I was having. I have the log file if you want it yet.

I'm fairly certain that your issue was indeed the same one but you might as well send me the log file if you have it and I can make sure that it was indeed the same issue. It never hurts to make certain!

[Uburian]

Hello Fractal. This mod is awesome, and i really think that it gives the game something really interesting to do

Also, i have found a strange bug that i think that could be caused by the mod, and i think that i should explain it: I have launched a ship equipped with a lab, a nuclear reactor and a generator, and when i start to separate the intermediate stages of the ship the camera starts to go away from the main structure. It stays aligned to the ship itself, but it also starts to constantly go down and down.

The only parts i was using on that ship where those parts from your mod and some from the B9 pack.

I hope that you find this information helpful

[Torminator]

Hello Fractal. This mod is awesome, and i really think that it gives the game something really interesting to do

Also, i have found a strange bug that i think that could be caused by the mod, and i think that i should explain it: I have launched a ship equipped with a lab, a nuclear reactor and a generator, and when i start to separate the intermediate stages of the ship the camera starts to go away from the main structure. It stays aligned to the ship itself, but it also starts to constantly go down and down.

The only parts i was using on that ship where those parts from your mod and some from the B9 pack.

I hope that you find this information helpful

I believe that bug was fixed in the 0.4.2 update

[Fractal_UK]

Hello Fractal. This mod is awesome, and i really think that it gives the game something really interesting to do

Also, i have found a strange bug that i think that could be caused by the mod, and i think that i should explain it: I have launched a ship equipped with a lab, a nuclear reactor and a generator, and when i start to separate the intermediate stages of the ship the camera starts to go away from the main structure. It stays aligned to the ship itself, but it also starts to constantly go down and down.

The only parts i was using on that ship where those parts from your mod and some from the B9 pack.

I hope that you find this information helpful

Thanks.

Have you updated to the 0.4.2 version of the mod yet? This issue should have already been fixed in that update. If you have already upgraded, a copy of your KSP.log file would be handy.

[darksearth]

I'm fairly certain that your issue was indeed the same one but you might as well send me the log file if you have it and I can make sure that it was indeed the same issue. It never hurts to make certain!

I don't have any file sharing set up yet. But I was looking at the log and found the same thing as Rampart. (File 'C:/Program Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/KSP_Data/../saves/dark/WarpPlugin.cfg' does not exist)

After that this kept popping up in the log.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FNPlugin.ScienceModule.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part+

.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

not sure if its related since I don't have a clean install.

Ill be on later got to to work.

Sorry I meant this

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FlightGlobals.get_Vessels () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Vessel.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

Edited September 3, 2013 by darksearth

[Uburian]

I didn't see the last update. i'll test it right away

[Fractal_UK]

I don't have any file sharing set up yet. But I was looking at the log and found the same thing as Rampart. (File 'C:/Program Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/KSP_Data/../saves/dark/WarpPlugin.cfg' does not exist)

After that this kept popping up in the log.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FNPlugin.ScienceModule.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Thanks, that's all fine, that's definitely the same bug that I fixed for 0.4.2.

[Uburian]

I can say for sure that the bug is no more

I have also tested the warp drive, and it is true that when you use it out of Kerbin's planetary system, when you deactivate the engine you are projected to a scape trajectory from the entire Kerbol System.

Keep up the good work

Edited September 3, 2013 by Uburian

[Torminator]

I can compete with neither ZZZ's skill or vision when it comes to modelling, but I had an idea for a basic Antimatter Reactor model. Essentially, an open chamber containing a set of gimballed rings. I mocked up a very rough animation in Blender, and then exported it in a tiny format for four seconds at low quality because I didn't have all night to wait for a good render...

If you're at all interested, I can flesh out the idea, make it into a cylindrical casing, smooth the edges, etc... You'd obviously need some sort of wizbangs going on in the center, but I haven't entirely figured out KSP's particle system yet, and Blender's not at all. So....

[Ratzap]

Some things that I'd like to see at some point:

1) The reactors and generators should act like the kethelectric generator from the kethane pack. Roughly put, if the resource they produce is over 75% do nothing, if under start producing until 90%ish then try to balance the draw with production. Basically this lets you just turn the things on and they only burn what you actually consume - no more micromanaging the on/off switch to save fuel.

2) Off switches on everything and controls working. The receiver dish for example cannot be switched off and closed, it would be good to be able to switch them off and let only 1 ship receive energy. Transmitter dishes switch on soon as you launch and off again when switching to their vessel - annoying.

How does the transmission system deal with the facing of the satellites? There's no station holding so does it just see if they are in sunlight and broadcast whatever the sat has for full sun power gen?

[DaveStrider]

There my experimental interior for lab(not completely successful experiment, and layout is little nonsensical but somehow OK)

Not all is good and some things are left unfixed, but no one will look inside often anyway. There also some "cameras" (click at door and at some windows), it's not designed for this point of view so you can to see things what not need to see if you begin to look around, but give nice view.

Download looks little heavy but amount of textures is close to conteiner interior is still less then cupola.

http://www./?yj7ine8y6zvrp4t (I hope I didn't forget something. Archive is replace lab cfg, it's copy of cfg from last version with added interior string )

I know you like pictures:

(looks shoped)

Looks outstanding! it looks pretty sciencey as well, so that's a plus

[Ratzap]

One other odd thing is the way it doesn't use megajoules or anything if you switch away from the ship then time warp. Whenever you go back to any vessel it's topped up on MJ again. But that probably could be addressed at the same time as doing something about the reactor fuel usage.

[Rampart]

You're an excellent bug tester Rampart, I've found the problem now, thanks. I need to spend more time looking at the second bug you submitted on bitbucket but for now I'll issue an emergency fix for this science lab problem along with the fix for the first bug (no science being deducted for plasma engine upgrade) that you reported. Unfortunately I've just moved house and I'm still waiting for installation of a decent internet connection which is posing me problems right now, in addition to bitbucket being down for maintanence. I'll *try* and get the fix up tonight.

Thanks! It's tough as I have to squeeze my playtime in between work, spouse, kiddo, and going back to school (again), so my reports may be erratic. That said, 4.2 is looking pretty solid. I've started abusing multiple docking ports around a large AM reactor with docked nuke reactors to get better performance out of the thermal nozzles without actually having any AM in any useful amounts. Besides that the only things I'm seeing so far are feature requests and possibly balance changes.

A "potential science" sensor would be nice to go along with the magnetometer, also a means of turning off exotic matter production in the warp drive, as it is it still prioritizes the warp drive over all other demands on MJ production.

I lucked out with two zero stupidity kerbals who are going on a tour of the solar system with Jeb to map out potential science creation once the warp drive charges up. After that it's a slowboat multiple science lab ship full of "volunteers" to the point of greatest science production. Fun!

[theSpeare]

Wait, wait, Kerbal stupidity affects science production?

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

Yup, it does.

Sorry for asking but, Fractal, how are the Fusion Reactors going?

Also, what are your plans to .22 integration?

[Fractal_UK]

Some things that I'd like to see at some point:

1) The reactors and generators should act like the kethelectric generator from the kethane pack. Roughly put, if the resource they produce is over 75% do nothing, if under start producing until 90%ish then try to balance the draw with production. Basically this lets you just turn the things on and they only burn what you actually consume - no more micromanaging the on/off switch to save fuel.

You shouldn't neccessarily think of a reactor as producing a storable resource, or of a generator producing a storable resource, these are supposed to be things that operate purely on an on/off level. The storage capacity that they do have is something of an abstraction that was particularly important with the stock resource system but is probably much less neccessary now. I could make the power plants controllable at some stage but it'd likely be an active control system, where you can alter the power output manually - I might even look at this for the next update because it's probably a sensible idea but instantly throttleable massive power generators would be both quite unusual and pose major problems for resource persistence.

2) Off switches on everything and controls working. The receiver dish for example cannot be switched off and closed, it would be good to be able to switch them off and let only 1 ship receive energy. Transmitter dishes switch on soon as you launch and off again when switching to their vessel - annoying.

I plan to add the receiver off switch in the next update. The transmitter problem, well, I'm going to fix that right now because it's incredibly easy to fix and should've been done long ago. If I do it now, I won't forget about it again.... Done.

How does the transmission system deal with the facing of the satellites? There's no station holding so does it just see if they are in sunlight and broadcast whatever the sat has for full sun power gen?

It doesn't look at satellite facing, it's essentially a bit of a cheat - as it must be because the satellite's physics isn't loaded by the game when the receiver would need it. So the way it works is, the game records the satellites output when the transmitter satellite was last active, then if the receiver has line of sight to the transmitter and the transmitter has line of sight to the sun, the receiver gets whatever power is recorded. So, all you need to do is orient your transmitter to receive the most power it can before you switch back to the space centre.

One other odd thing is the way it doesn't use megajoules or anything if you switch away from the ship then time warp. Whenever you go back to any vessel it's topped up on MJ again. But that probably could be addressed at the same time as doing something about the reactor fuel usage.

There's no point making Megajoules or ThermalPower persistent because the entire supply of most ships lasts a matter of seconds. That is why Antimatter and UF6 are persistent, those resources get used up even if the consuming ship isn't active but megajoules don't. Megajoules and ThermalPower are much too shortlived to be relevant over large timescales, so I just cut them out and deal with the important resources.

A "potential science" sensor would be nice to go along with the magnetometer

Yes, I want to add something like that too.

also a means of turning off exotic matter production in the warp drive, as it is it still prioritizes the warp drive over all other demands on MJ production.

I think I'm going to add another priority level for left-over resources, that'd mean that everything else would come before the warp drive in the power consumption order and it would just get whatever was left. No harm in adding an off switch too though.

You should find that plasma engines always receive power before the warp drive at the moment, is that performing correctly for you?

Wait, wait, Kerbal stupidity affects science production?

Yes, 50% stupid Kerbals have no effect. Kerbals less stupid than this have a positive effect, more stupid Kerbals have a negative effect.

Sorry for asking but, Fractal, how are the Fusion Reactors going?

Haven't look at them yet, been too busy fixing bugs to work on new features but Fusion Reactors are one of the easiest things to add given the existing code base from a programming perspective. They're much harder from an art/modelling (i'm still really loath to add more reactors without unique art) and balance perspective.

Also, what are your plans to .22 integration?

My only plans for .22 integration are to wait and see what .22 brings. Without early access to the APIs, there's nothing more I can do than try to adapt the existing code quickly to something that still works logically when the next update comes out. I have some ideas because I know how I'd implement a tech tree but we'll have to wait and see what SQUAD comes out with and how close it is to my expectations.

[Rampart]

(deletia)

I think I'm going to add another priority level for left-over resources, that'd mean that everything else would come before the warp drive in the power consumption order and it would just get whatever was left. No harm in adding an off switch too though.

You should find that plasma engines always receive power before the warp drive at the moment, is that performing correctly for you?

(deletia)

I should have tested before I wrote that, it appears if you lock the exotic matter tank on the 2.5m warp drive it stops drawing power, allowing you to run other things, and not a bad workaround, but hard to tell if power is being used properly. While setting manual power priorities might be beyond the current UI, maybe have a "make current item highest power priority" button on each MJ consuming item, and if it's not the current #1 it goes to it's normal place in the list. Adding that and putting warp drives to the bottom would be the most useful I think.

I'll test plasma consumption vs warp drive consumption next, Jeb and the two brains just finished charging the warp drive and we're going cruising

[Fractal_UK]

I should have tested before I wrote that, it appears if you lock the exotic matter tank on the 2.5m warp drive it stops drawing power, allowing you to run other things, and not a bad workaround, but hard to tell if power is being used properly.

That's interesting and quite a good solution as a short term method of controlling that.

While setting manual power priorities might be beyond the current UI, maybe have a "make current item highest power priority" button on each MJ consuming item, and if it's not the current #1 it goes to it's normal place in the list. Adding that and putting warp drives to the bottom would be the most useful I think.

I'll test plasma consumption vs warp drive consumption next, Jeb and the two brains just finished charging the warp drive and we're going cruising

I'm going to experiment with some kinds of sorting and see how it performs. To start with, I think I might just try ordering the power draws based upon their size, that way small power draws will be pushed to the top of the list and the huge draws, like the warp drive charging, will always play second fiddle. Then I'll work upward in complexity from there if that doesn't perform adequately.

[Rampart]

That's interesting and quite a good solution as a short term method of controlling that.

I'm going to experiment with some kinds of sorting and see how it performs. To start with, I think I might just try ordering the power draws based upon their size, that way small power draws will be pushed to the top of the list and the huge draws, like the warp drive charging, will always play second fiddle. Then I'll work upward in complexity from there if that doesn't perform adequately.

I'm trying to mentally inventory what all can draw MJ: science labs, computer cores, warp drive, electric charge generation, air scoops. so as long as you can turn off the science cores (perhaps by locking their MJ tank? will test), the scoops aren't drawing useful atmosphere, and the warp drive is last on the list you can prioritize the warp drive by turning off everything else. That would be easiest to implement if you add a toggle to computer cores and pretty powerful.

Maybe in the future a "deactivate current function" action group entry, binding all your stuff to that would allow quick switchover to warp drive charging, but honestly unless you have like 10+ labs/cores it shouldn't be a problem, personally I bind my scoops to an action button already so that's not a problem.

Is there a good way to see the power breakdown, like in debug somewhere? the resource window is insufficient.

[Ratzap]

You shouldn't neccessarily think of a reactor as producing a storable resource, or of a generator producing a storable resource, these are supposed to be things that operate purely on an on/off level. The storage capacity that they do have is something of an abstraction that was particularly important with the stock resource system but is probably much less neccessary now. I could make the power plants controllable at some stage but it'd likely be an active control system, where you can alter the power output manually - I might even look at this for the next update because it's probably a sensible idea but instantly throttleable massive power generators would be both quite unusual and pose major problems for resource persistence.

I'm not talking about the storage part, just the irritating micromanagement. Human reactors don't run at full power constantly, they have management systems which match the power output to the demand (generator and/or thruster in this case). And flipping the things on and off manually is precisely what you wrote - instantly throttleable massive power generators - they go from 100 to 0 to 100 to 0 as I sit there flipping on/off so I don't waste anti-matter. Case in point, I took my 4 lab, 175t anti-matter ship from Kerbin to Jool (9000km orbit where the best particle density is) and it took less than 2,000AM but it was irritating to nurse it along. That's what computers are for

I plan to add the receiver off switch in the next update. The transmitter problem, well, I'm going to fix that right now because it's incredibly easy to fix and should've been done long ago. If I do it now, I won't forget about it again.... Done.

Thank you.

It doesn't look at satellite facing, it's essentially a bit of a cheat - as it must be because the satellite's physics isn't loaded by the game when the receiver would need it. So the way it works is, the game records the satellites output when the transmitter satellite was last active, then if the receiver has line of sight to the transmitter and the transmitter has line of sight to the sun, the receiver gets whatever power is recorded. So, all you need to do is orient your transmitter to receive the most power it can before you switch back to the space centre.

Ah now I was hoping this was how you dealt with it because I carefully turn the sats and get them optimal before I flip back to KSC. One other question though, how do you handle the attenuation? I have a bunch of sats around Kerbin and a few now orbiting just outside Eve. Is the attenuation calculated for each sat to receiver or a mean value?

There's no point making Megajoules or ThermalPower persistent because the entire supply of most ships lasts a matter of seconds. That is why Antimatter and UF6 are persistent, those resources get used up even if the consuming ship isn't active but megajoules don't. Megajoules and ThermalPower are much too shortlived to be relevant over large timescales, so I just cut them out and deal with the important resources.

I wasn't saying they should be, I was pointing out badly that it's a bit exploitable. With thermal in particular, it's basically free AM fuel.

Something I'd love to see is a change to the generators. Make only 2 sizes, one to fit 0.625 and 1.25 and the other for 2.5 to 3.75 but radially attached. Then you could pick the amount of MJ gen you wanted on a ship by ship basis by having more or less generators hanging off it and it wouldn't muck up the look or wobbly factor of trying to fit an undersized generator with a large reactor. Ships without warp drive or labs really have no great use for much MJ but it looks daft with a small generator on top of a big reactor.

Anyway, back to what I was doing. I'm trying to benchmark all the various sizes and tech levels with an appropriate payload and get it into a spreadsheet. I'll post it when it's done.

[Dysoch]

Fractal, after using your mod i was hooked!

love the work you have done, but a few bugs i have: (using the newest version (0.4.2)

1) The science module: again the bug that you had fixed in latest update, not working. says its locked (it has crew).

this is constant in my ksp_output.log:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at ConfigNode.RecurseFormat (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 cfg, System.Int32& index, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at ConfigNode.RecurseFormat (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 cfg) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at ConfigNode.Load (System.String fileFullName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FNPlugin.ScienceModule.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part+

.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

2) the science module again: the same bug that people reported with the center mass being shifted. i know what happens, the science module goes down (saw this thanks to struts) it keeps going down every few km during launch, and even in orbit when you start time-warp (but then it quickly shifts back)

3) i have a craft with 8 thermal rocket nozzles (connected to antimatter reactors) they do not work as one, when i throttle, all work, then they quickly die out 1 by 1 till there is one left (this keeps working, and yes, i have enough thermal power)

4) the 2.5m nuclear reactor: it will not work correctly, meaning: it does not add its thermal power to the pool, no matter what i try. it simply wont produce thermal power, but when i shut it of, the thermal power drops. then i turn it on, and the thermal power stays the same with no increase or decrease.

hope you can fix them, and if you need anything, just ask.

list of mods:

DROMOMAN robot arm, Extraplanetary Launchpads, ICBM Silo, ISA Map sat dev 4.0, Kerbincity, Kerbtown plugin, Kethane, KSPinterstellar (0.4.2!), Infernal Robotics, Mechjeb, ModularFuelTank, OrbitalCon Redux, Roverwheelpack (by TT), All Fustek mods, KAS, Quantum Struts,Remote Tech, HL Shields and Platform, HL Submarines, HL Airships, KW Rockettry, TT Mod Wheels, B9, Chatterer, CrewManifest, Engineer Redux, KerbalAlarmClock, Subassembly Manager, TacFuelBalancer, Carrier and Boat pack, EditorExtensions, Firespitter, HollowShipHulls, Ion Pack, Kosmos, PartGroupFilter, Pegasus(by Wayland), ProcFairings, Lazor and Robotics arm by Romfarer.

NO, My system can handle it! (for as people would say my system cant handle it!)

System Specs:

AMD FX-8350 8-Core

Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 2GB DDR5

Kingston Ram (2x4gb at 633mhz, will be upgraded to 4x8gb 1866 mhz in 2 days)

Samsung 125gb SSD Drive for extra power for my system files

[Ratzap]

Spreadsheet here

This went quicker than I expected - Hyperedit be praised etc. It's an Open Document Format file and the testbed build is to the right of the results. Some thoughts in no particular order:

the 0.625m parts are pretty pointless. Not enough power to do anything useful, no jet nozzle light enough to use, basic has too low power to make MJ. Is anyone actually using them for anything? The upgraded 1.25m nuclear is ok to power science labs but costs the same to upgrade a 2.5m part so why bother? The 2.5m stuff shines, basic is useful so is the upgrade but it's a bit heavy. 3.75m is way heavy and drinks down fuel.

AM parts are at least all useful-ish but seem rather overpowered if anything. Again the 2.5m part is the best. I couldn't get a thrust measurement for the 3.75m basic as the reactor simply exploded at full welly. I saw 10,500kN very briefly as it throttled up then blam. AM use on the upgraded 3.75m is eye watering.

The plasma is amusing but 569 xenon per second? Really? With the upgraded reactor 4613 xenon a second, rather useless but very funny. The upgraded plasma (quantum thing) is completely different again but 2000 science is rather a lot for a low thrust engine even if it needs no fuel to run but will need AM since you'd need 160t of nuclear 3.75s to run one...

A good effort getting the mod made and out there but these need a good looking at to give them all a use/niche

[Fractal_UK]

1) The science module: again the bug that you had fixed in latest update, not working. says its locked (it has crew).

The locked status isn't something to worry about it by itself, this actually refers to the science lab lights, which are still controlled independently.

this is constant in my ksp_output.log:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at ConfigNode.RecurseFormat (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 cfg, System.Int32& index, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at ConfigNode.RecurseFormat (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 cfg) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at ConfigNode.Load (System.String fileFullName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FNPlugin.ScienceModule.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part+

.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

2) the science module again: the same bug that people reported with the center mass being shifted. i know what happens, the science module goes down (saw this thanks to struts) it keeps going down every few km during launch, and even in orbit when you start time-warp (but then it quickly shifts back)

This, however, is something to worry about. Could you also take a look in your Kerbals Space Program directory, then go to Saves/[Your Game Name]/ and look for WarpPlugin.cfg. Is the file there? Can you look inside it and see what's in there?

Are you using windows?

3) i have a craft with 8 thermal rocket nozzles (connected to antimatter reactors) they do not work as one, when i throttle, all work, then they quickly die out 1 by 1 till there is one left (this keeps working, and yes, i have enough thermal power)

Are the thermal rocket nozzles all directly connected to the antimatter reactors (with nothing inbetween) ?

4) the 2.5m nuclear reactor: it will not work correctly, meaning: it does not add its thermal power to the pool, no matter what i try. it simply wont produce thermal power, but when i shut it of, the thermal power drops. then i turn it on, and the thermal power stays the same with no increase or decrease.

This one is not something to worry about, chances are the resource draw is perfectly balanaced against the resource drain, such that there is no change in thermal power. That is why thermal power drops when you turn it off but stays constant when its on. Try turning off the electric generator it is attached to, you should then see thermal power increase rapidly.

[Dysoch]

fractal,

you say that locked isnt something to worry about, but when i press start research, nothing happens. lights are alwyas on, electrolysis doesnt work, hell the whole module doesnt work. i should also mention, when i update to the newest version (deleted the old one, put in new) it worked. then i closed the game, did something else(not ksp related), then started the game again. now it wont work no matter what, it shows in the gui (right click part) this:

R:

L:

E:

Status: Locked

and the normal buttons.

the thermal rocket nozzle are connected right to the reactor. i dont know why it wont work.

i took a look at the warpplugin.cfg, it is there, but no text what so ever.

ill try deleting the mod, and installing it anew.

will give you the result tomorrow

[Fractal_UK]

i took a look at the warpplugin.cfg, it is there, but no text what so ever.

ill try deleting the mod, and installing it anew.

will give you the result tomorrow

I'm pretty sure that that's the problem right there. For some reason, the game doesn't like empty "ConfigNodes", that's what I assumed the problem was when you wrote your report, I'm currently experimenting with a solution.

Could you try downloading this WarpPlugin.cfg and replacing your empty copy with this one. This should fix the problem until I can fix the bug itself. Could you let me know if that helps?