[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Fractal_UK]

I can confirm teohoch's bug, I just put 0.8.2.1 back on my system and it does the same thing with a similar build and a few EC/s of draw on the system.

Myrten what version are you running?

EC useage is too high on 0.8.2.1, that's why you're seeing it when you go back to it. The dev version you are using fixes the problem partially but doesn't have a complete fix (EC is actually too low on there) as my latest build does.

This will all be fixed in the next version.

[Myrten]

So are you using a receiver or an AM Reactor?

AM reactor + generator connected to it .Thermal receivers which generate actual thermal power might be anywhere. Electric receiver is off, try it yourself.

[mcbain_101]

got a problem with the nuclear reactors and generators here. my game crashed whilst getting into orbit around jool and now whenever i load up my save the generators refuse to power up and the MJ bleed down to zero. i have tried turning the generators and reactors on and off. tried switching the nuclear fuel (which might be part of the problem having 2 types at once?) unfortunately this ship was made several patches ago so doesn't have any storage tanks for nuclear material

[Fractal_UK]

I think something is wrong when thermal power for the vessel is produced by thermal receivers - because I've just tested on the same version another ship in which thermal power is produced by nuclear reactors and it worked just fine.

You're right - I've found the issue. I should be using supplyManagedFNResource rather than supplyFNResource in the thermal microwave code, otherwise the thermal receivers will not respond to demand in the smooth way that a normal reactor does.

I wish everything was so simple to fix

[likke_A_boss]

Wait, to install, on mac running on steam, where do I find the KSP directory?

[egreSS]

Apart from upgrades core temps are completely static per reactor, right? There is no way to influence it? Also in sandbox you start out with everything fully upgraded?

Wait, to install, on mac running on steam, where do I find the KSP directory?

The same directory with all your other Steam games.

[Saphykitten]

So here is a good question, and I am not sure if its been asked before.

Why is there no 2.5m or 3.75m Fusion Reactor?

[Deredere]

Registered to weigh in on this really quite awesome mod.

Before I tl; dr this, are there any good examples of working refinery setups posted anywhere? I checked the last 20 pages but didn't see much. Specifically I'm at a loss of how to get fuels and stuff from a refinery to ships that need it reasonably conveniently. I also wouldn't mind some examples of good refinery ships. I have absolutely no clue how I'd even make that thing in the first post fly.

Okay, so.

Good parts - reactors and resource management. Having the option to put heavy and occasionally inconvenient reactors on a spaceframe instead of light and convenient (but limited) solars is fantastic. Radiators, very cool. I like awesome looking things that look even more awesome when I press buttons. Nice also to have varied propulsion options that don't suck. NASA wishes they had this mod.

Bad parts - it's complicated. First of all, scientific notation - get rid of it with maximum prejudice. It may seem cool to you if you're a math or physics or whatever major but to the rest of us, it's incomprehensible and sucks, like having someone tell you the temperature outside is 303 Kelvin. What does that mean? I have to think about it. Thinking sucks. And I'm a postgrad student in something that ISN'T (very) math-related, so I'm not a dumbass. I think I speak for most people here.

If you have numbers too large or small to conveniently express in real people numbers, use different units.

Second, it would be neat if you could clean up the megajoules/heat system and integrate it into electric charge somehow. I see where you're coming from - battery capacity is totally inadequate to deal with the levels of power reactors put out, and you don't want people running warp drives with their cheap imported Chinese solar panels. I don't have a solid suggestion on how to do this. It's just that having 3 or 4 bars expressing basically the same resource - readily usable energy - is confusing and offputting.

Also it would be nice if my solars COULD run relatively low-power KSP stuff, like the refinery and the lab, even if very slowly.

Third, I know you had at least one other person complaining about this, but managing all the reactor stuff is silly. Nobody is ever going to refuel a fission reactor except to say they did. I'm sorry, but uranium and thorium need to either go or be made super more convenient to play with - like giving the reactor a small internal storage for all the fuels and byproducts, allowing it to switch available fuels manually and automatically upon exhaustion, and having one (small) container that can hold useful amounts of all radioactive stuff.

I guess that's it. Obviously that was a lot more complaining than complimenting, but we all spend a lot more time in life thinking about the things we don't like than the things we do.

[RadHazard]

I believe it's just because the current model doesn't look good stretched any bigger. It used to be the model for the 1.25m fission reactor before the models were redone and it was recycled as a fusion reactor. The other sized nuclear reactors had older models that wouldn't look good as fusion reactors.

[Myrten]

You're right but it does make a difference to the other reactor types. A more universal change is a lot of work for what is a very low priority issue now that the reception of thermal power from your ship is fixed and the only effect it has is to make things marginally easier, unless I'm missing something. If I come up with something better I'll include it but there are other things I need to give my attention to more at this point. I will deal with it fully as soon as I can.

Sorry for late reply, but I wanted to have some evidence

It's not marginally easier - it's infinite power as 0.82 fix only work withing small area of loaded vessels which means that basically it doesn't do anything:P

I didn't launch any vessels between these screenshots, power has increased by 100 times just by switching between vessels...

How to get infinite microwave power on purpose (will most likely ruin your game):

1) Launch some traditional generators + transmitters, it should provide at least 50 GW.

2) Launch vessels with following parts: AM 3.75 Reactor + 3.75 Generator + thermal receivers (more angles they cover the better), some radiators and single transmitter - these vessel multiply power at 60% efficiency until generator hits AM reactor max power output so launch them until this happens. I call them AM-Multipliers

3) Launch vessels with following parts: 3.75 generator, 3.75 thermal receiver attached to generator, transmitter and some radiators just like the one at screenshot above - they increase network power by about 50% each. I call them Multipliers

4) Switch between Multipliers (vessels from 3) ) for as long as you want, each switch between your vessels will cause positive feedback and increase network power. This can go to infinity.

While I understand that this is SP game and preventing exploits is not a priority IMHO this can ruin a game, it's unlikely that anyone will get to these gargantuan amounts of power without doing that on purpose but power can get easily multiplied just by switching vessels if someone has thermal receiver\generator and transmitter on his vessel.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Myrten

[skygunner58203]

Probably a dumb question, but in my opinion the only dumb question is the one not asked. How do you use science to upgrade your parts? Is a specific part or part of the r&d tree required to upgrade reactors and engines?

[RadHazard]

You need to unlock various tech nodes to unlock certain upgrades. If a tech node is required to upgrade a part, any parts launched after you unlock that upgrade spawn on the pad with the upgrade already unlocked. Only parts that were launched before the upgrade was unlocked and parts with "Per Part" upgrades need to be upgraded individually via science.

[Per Part] Alcubierre Drive: Standard Field Geometry ----> Advanced Field Geometry (Faster charging times and higher maximum speeds)

[ultra-High Energy Physics] Antimatter Reactor: Solid/Liquid Core Reactor ----> Liquid/Plasma Core Reactor (3x power output)

[Per Part] Computer Core: Standard Mainframe ----> Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) Core (Guaranteed to open the pod bay doors while within warranty period!)

[Experimental Electrics] Electric Generator: Brayton Turbine ----> KTEC Thermoelectric

[Fusion Power] Nuclear Reactor: Solid Core Reactor ----> Gas Core Reactor (3x power output)

[ultra-High Energy Physics] Plasma Thruster: Magnetoplasdynamic ----> Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thruster

[Fusion Power] Thermal Turbojet: Atmospheric Thermal Jet ----> Hybrid Thermal Rocket (Basic version can only work in atmosphere, Upgraded version can toggle over to internal fuel)

[Experimental Electrics] Heat Radiator: Mo Li Heat Pipe ----> Graphene Radiator

[Antimatter Power] D-T Inertial Fusion Reactor ----> High-Q Intertial Fusion Reactor

[Fractal_UK]

Sorry for late reply, but I wanted to have some evidence

It's not marginally easier - it's infinite power as 0.82 fix only work withing small area of loaded vessels which means that basically it doesn't do anything:P

I didn't launch any vessels between these screenshots, power has increased by 100 times just by switching between vessels...

How to get infinite microwave power on purpose (will most likely ruin your game):

1) Launch some traditional generators + transmitters, it should provide at least 50 GW.

2) Launch vessels with following parts: AM 3.75 Reactor + 3.75 Generator + thermal receivers (more angles they cover the better), some radiators and single transmitter - these vessel multiply power at 60% efficiency until generator hits AM reactor max power output so launch them until this happens. I call them AM-Multipliers

3) Launch vessels with following parts: 3.75 generator, 3.75 thermal receiver attached to generator, transmitter and some radiators just like the one at screenshot above - they increase network power by about 50% each. I call them Multipliers

4) Switch between Multipliers (vessels from 3) ) for as long as you want, each switch between your vessels will cause positive feedback and increase network power. This can go to infinity.

While I understand that this is SP game and preventing exploits is not a priority IMHO this can ruin a game, it's unlikely that anyone will get to these gargantuan amounts of power without doing that on purpose but power can get easily multiplied just by switching vessels if someone has thermal receiver\generator and transmitter on his vessel.

Looking at this, I reckon the best solution is to switch from checking generators for power to transmit to checking reactors and their attached generators, then I can discard all the data from those inline receivers. That should kill off that exploit entirely.

I'll try this out.

[Saphykitten]

Well hopefully someone with some artistic talent will make a decent 2.5/3.75 model to be used. It just seems silly not to have a fusion reactor of larger size.

I believe it's just because the current model doesn't look good stretched any bigger. It used to be the model for the 1.25m fission reactor before the models were redone and it was recycled as a fusion reactor. The other sized nuclear reactors had older models that wouldn't look good as fusion reactors.

[Eadrom]

I personally like the fusion generators as is. They fit in very nicely for me as small, moderate output, easy to fuel/refuel power sources, even after unlocking antimatter power. Fusion is definitely my go to solution for small designs or anything not requiring the high power of antimatter systems. At max tech, I generally utilize power systems like this:

Small power requirement/long duration: Fusion

Moderate power requirement/long duration: 2.5m & 3.75m Fission

High power requirement: Antimatter

I realize that obviously everybody has different takes on what works best for them. However for me, having 2.5m & 3.75m fusion reactors would just antiquate all the fission reactors in almost all cases. Fusion provides more power per mass and is MUCH easier to refuel than their fission counterparts. If we get all 4 sizes of fusion reactors, I can only really see using a 62.5cm reactor now then as an onboard fusion starter. I wouldn't have any use for the bigger fission reactors at that point. Anywho, just my take on the topic.

[bojangles9999]

Yeah, all the solar panels except the OX-STAT have had their solar curve tweaked.

is there a reason why the OX-STAT panels are treated specially? it seems like a bug that waste heat has no effect on them, and their power output doesn't scale either according to this post.

or is there a need for stock panel behavior?

Fractal_UK, is this intentional?

[Myrten]

Looking at this, I reckon the best solution is to switch from checking generators for power to transmit to checking reactors and their attached generators, then I can discard all the data from those inline receivers. That should kill off that exploit entirely.

I'll try this out.

Yes this should work, another way might be to change generator code so it would always generate only power from attached reactor.

[Fractal_UK]

is there a reason why the OX-STAT panels are treated specially? it seems like a bug that waste heat has no effect on them, and their power output doesn't scale either according to this post.

or is there a need for stock panel behavior?

Fractal_UK, is this intentional?

This isn't quite true - the small panels have had their panels tweaked just the same as all the other panels and they do generate heat. The only difference is the static solar panels are coded not to "retract" which is something they are apparently capable of despite the lack of animation - it just stops them generating power.

Anyway, I don't want static panels "retracting," because it just breaks the panels silently without informing the player. Basically, the static panels need some different type of consequence putting in for when they cause overheating.

[NotCoach]

While I understand that this is SP game and preventing exploits is not a priority IMHO this can ruin a game, it's unlikely that anyone will get to these gargantuan amounts of power without doing that on purpose but power can get easily multiplied just by switching vessels if someone has thermal receiver\generator and transmitter on his vessel.

There are so many other much easier ways to "cheat" ourselves energy that I don't think it matters. Nobody who isn't testing the mod is going to go through all this trouble to get infinite energy.

[NotCoach]

This isn't quite true - the small panels have had their panels tweaked just the same as all the other panels and they do generate heat. The only difference is the static solar panels are coded not to "retract" which is something they are apparently capable of despite the lack of animation - it just stops them generating power.

Anyway, I don't want static panels "retracting," because it just breaks the panels silently without informing the player. Basically, the static panels need some different type of consequence putting in for when they cause overheating.

"Hey Jeb, didn't there used to be a solar panel here where this charred hole on the fuselage is?"

[Donziboy2]

"Hey Jeb, didn't there used to be a solar panel here where this charred hole on the fuselage is?"

"Hey Jeb, I think the Kraken just ate our return craft because you put all those panels on our ship...."

Next your going to want Fractal_UK to start killing crew when the waste heat gets to high....

Edited December 11, 2013 by Donziboy2

[NotCoach]

"Hey Jeb, I think the Kraken just ate our return craft because you put all those panels on our ship...."

Next your going to want Fractal_UK to start killing crew when the waste heat gets to high....

Do you like your Kerbals medium, or well done?

[Donziboy2]

Do you like your Kerbals medium, or well done?

Rare, they don't get as much done if you overcook them.

[Myrten]

One more energy bug not to forget about:

AM Rector\Generator + Electric Receiver + Transmitter. Transmitters transmits max power of generator although generator actually produces 0 power because it gets mega-joules from receiver.

[bojangles9999]

This isn't quite true - the small panels have had their panels tweaked just the same as all the other panels and they do generate heat. The only difference is the static solar panels are coded not to "retract" which is something they are apparently capable of despite the lack of animation - it just stops them generating power.

Anyway, I don't want static panels "retracting," because it just breaks the panels silently without informing the player. Basically, the static panels need some different type of consequence putting in for when they cause overheating.

Is it possible to have the panels destroy themselves if they overheat?

The ability to auto-retract is important, as it saves the panel from destruction from overheating....but if the panel can't retract, why not have it blow up?

That would alert the user that the panel failed, and would encourage the use of radiators, and the auto-retracting panels would become more valuable since a probe using auto-retracting panels could be restarted by a kerbal in EVA after it cooled.

what do you think Fractal_UK?