[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[BigD145]

All this waste heat!

What's the minimum small or medium panel radiators needed for a 1.25 nuke plant and same electrical un-upgraded.

[Konnor]

It seems to me, after reading config files, that B9 precoolers should now actually work as precoolers, which is nice.

The changelog also states that precoolers must be directly connected to intakes: does that apply to radial intakes as well? (With B9 hypersonic intakes it is not always obvious which part they are connected to, might make designing spaceplanes a bit more challenging).

[Fractal_UK]

I think it will be fine, most of ingame time is spent at high timewarps, and considering those fusion reactor changes a lot of people will do this on non-focused ships...

BTW tritium in fusion reactor is not decaying to He-3, but if i transfer it from reactor to external tank it does. Also fusion reactor cannot use fuel from external tank, only internal storage. Is this intended behavior?

Actually, yes, though this is a sympton of the same issues with part.requestResource problems. I wrote custom code for the reactors that handles the resource drawing of fission and fusion fuels in order to prevent issues like the tritium breeding problems - at some point I will write up a generic method that does this for all resources, I've been reluctant to do this so far but now that it appears that resources aren't going to be a major focus of the stock game, I'm not really expecting a major improvement of the stock API.

I've triple checked my config files, including the warp settings config, and I'm not sure what else to change. The only reference to "LqdWater" over "Water" remains in the ResourcesNuclear.cfg file. I have water transferred into the refinery and space for the hydrogen peroxide. The refinery will happily collect water from the ocean. It does not want to convert it to H2O2 however. TACLS's water is also defined as all_vessel for flow. No reason that I can see why the refinery shouldn't be getting water except that it's still looking for LqdWater and not Water

This could, in theory, be related to the issue I'm discussing above. Can you try changing the TAC Water resource definition to STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of ALL_VESSEL just to rule this possibility out?

The error message I'm getting from the refinery is that the refinery requires "water". Does an unmodded Interstellar install give the same message but with "lqdwater"?

No, the message is the same.

All this waste heat!

What's the minimum small or medium panel radiators needed for a 1.25 nuke plant and same electrical un-upgraded.

The mechanics have changed now so waste heat will build up for a while until the vessel reaches a thermal equilibrium - the more WasteHeat you have in the bar, the hotter the radiators will get and the more heat they will dissipate. The number of radiators you need hasn't increased, in fact it has gone down slightly but the way the system operates has changed.

It seems to me, after reading config files, that B9 precoolers should now actually work as precoolers, which is nice.

The changelog also states that precoolers must be directly connected to intakes: does that apply to radial intakes as well? (With B9 hypersonic intakes it is not always obvious which part they are connected to, might make designing spaceplanes a bit more challenging).

I am not sure if radial intakes will be checked by the code - I'm more targeting an intake -> pre-cooler -> engine or intake -> pre-cooler -> reactor -> engine set up. I particularly like the combination of the B9 sabre intake and B9 sabre precooler. High altitude/velocity atmospheric flight has got much much easier since 0.23 so you shouldn't need as many intakes now anyway. This is really something I wanted to include to draw a distinction between aeroplanes designed for hypersonic flight in the atmosphere and spaceplanes that are actually capable of achieving orbit.

[pina_coladas]

I am not sure if radial intakes will be checked by the code - I'm more targeting an intake -> pre-cooler -> engine or intake -> pre-cooler -> reactor -> engine set up.

Oh well that answers my question I think. My precoolers were "offline" and I couldn't figure out why, but I guess it's because I had a pair of intakes/precoolers and a single reactor+turbojet on a separate stack in between. Sounds like they all have to be directly connected to each other. It didn't stop me from getting to orbit but it was tense watching those heat bars fill up!

[Eadrom]

This could, in theory, be related to the issue I'm discussing above. Can you try changing the TAC Water resource definition to STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH instead of ALL_VESSEL just to rule this possibility out?

Testing now, will edit after I test. I'll need to test and see if changing flow will have any repercussions on life support as well. Any word on where the modules for electrolysis and such for the refinery part config are?

Edit:

No joy with flow type change. Still consuming MW, no fuel being created. Same error message on attempting to turn on H2Peroxide mode.

Edit:

Changing the flow type on the water breaks TACLS. It sees all the water available, and the timer counts down, but once the water in the stack w/ the kerbal is consumed, the timer continues to count down but water stops being consumed. I think if I could edit the resource production modules for the refinery, I could make everything work. Are these processes being handled inside your custom resource manager and thus unable to be edited?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Eadrom

[Donziboy2]

I am not sure if radial intakes will be checked by the code - I'm more targeting an intake -> pre-cooler -> engine or intake -> pre-cooler -> reactor -> engine set up. I particularly like the combination of the B9 sabre intake and B9 sabre precooler. High altitude/velocity atmospheric flight has got much much easier since 0.23 so you shouldn't need as many intakes now anyway. This is really something I wanted to include to draw a distinction between aeroplanes designed for hypersonic flight in the atmosphere and spaceplanes that are actually capable of achieving orbit.

It would have been nice to put the pre-cooler requirement in writing somewhere, now I have to rebuild my Super SSTO... Since it just exploded at 25Km killing Jeb.....

Im also getting a high pitched squeal every few seconds from the engines with the same Super SSTO from 0.22....

Edited December 19, 2013 by Donziboy2

[Fractal_UK]

It would have been nice to put the pre-cooler requirement in writing somewhere, now I have to rebuild my Super SSTO... Since it just exploded at 25Km killing Jeb.....

Im also getting a high pitched squeal every few seconds from the engines with the same Super SSTO from 0.22....

The pre-cooler thing is in the first page and the changelog but you're right, the eendless cycle of updating and then documenting updates needs to take a swing toward the documentation side!

Not sure what the squeal could be though.

Changing the flow type on the water breaks TACLS. It sees all the water available, and the timer counts down, but once the water in the stack w/ the kerbal is consumed, the timer continues to count down but water stops being consumed. I think if I could edit the resource production modules for the refinery, I could make everything work. Are these processes being handled inside your custom resource manager and thus unable to be edited?

There are no resource production modules for the refinery, there is just the refinery module which handles all of its possible actions such as fuel reprocessing, electrolysis, research, etc. The idea of the WarpPluginSettings.cfg file is to change these "hard to reach" definitions. Can you provide a ksp.log file so I can make sure that is getting loaded correctly?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Fractal_UK

[Eskandare]

Hey Fractal_UK, any reason the nuclear reactors are over sized? It seems the model isn't showing up correctly.

[Donziboy2]

Not sure what the squeal could be though.

It kind of reminds me of the hicup you get from having the MechJeb DeltaV window open but my FPS does not drop and the game does not stutter, happens at all throttle levels...Seems like an audio issue.... Hm :/

Also, Jeb is starting to sweat.... He is sitting on 10 Fusion reactors, 1 Fission reactor and like 80T of Fuel and Oxidizer, and the engines are overheating.....

Normally he is laughing....

Edit....

The sound issue occurs no matter how many Thermal Turbojets I use, or how few parts i use.. The more I use the more often it occurs. Unless someone else runs into this it may just be the fact I have 20 mods running....

Edited December 19, 2013 by Donziboy2

[Eadrom]

Can you provide a ksp.log file so I can make sure that is getting loaded correctly?

http://pastebin.com/CznZM25G

Exited KSP, and then reopened it so it would be a fresh log. I loaded up, went into my test sandbox save, loaded my test ship, launched to launchpad, and then turned on and off some refinery functions.

[SnappingTurtle]

I just got this mod. Are there tutorials anywhere? The only part I've used so far is the small radial radiator. It seems to have a deploy action that doesn't seem to do anything, but when I toggle the waste heat resource to not flow the waste heat goes down. Is this how it's supposed to work?

[IndigoCypher00]

Well, SnappingTurtle, the small radial radiator (the one that DOESN'T look like a big red solar panel) doesn't have any animation or extending function. It does reduce waste heat however. As far as tutorials, I know the linked Scott Manley video in the OP has a brief overview of the mod.

[Fractal_UK]

I just got this mod. Are there tutorials anywhere? The only part I've used so far is the small radial radiator. It seems to have a deploy action that doesn't seem to do anything, but when I toggle the waste heat resource to not flow the waste heat goes down. Is this how it's supposed to work?

Which radiator do you mean? Only the larger deployable radiators should have a deploy action, the others technically use the same module but don't show the option to deploy/retract (technically, they count as deployed all the time).

[Frostiken]

So... is there anywhere to actually go with these? I know there was a planetary system expansion mod but I don't know where it went or what it was called.

[SnappingTurtle]

Which radiator do you mean? Only the larger deployable radiators should have a deploy action, the others technically use the same module but don't show the option to deploy/retract (technically, they count as deployed all the time).

This is the radiator I'm using. It has a deploy action that doesn't do anything (it's only visible in the VAB action group menu, or with the action group manager plugin). Waste heat builds up unless I toggle the resource flow off like I've done in the image. I don't know if it's supposed to be this way or if it's a bug.

Edited December 19, 2013 by SnappingTurtle

[Eadrom]

So... is there anywhere to actually go with these? I know there was a planetary system expansion mod but I don't know where it went or what it was called.

The planet mod was krag's planet factory. It was removed from the forum here because the author is not conforming with plugin protocol regarding making source code available and providing a license. I believe you can still download the mod and participate in discussion regarding the mod on a reddit thread. At any rate, there are lots of places to go!

Using the warp drive is not as cheaty as it first appears. If jool is on the other side of Kerbol, you can expect to need like 17k delta-v to get in orbit around jool. That is multiple times the delta-v required to normally travel to Jool, but this one of the most extreme cases. Normally you can get by with something like a 2k-5k delta-v burn if you warp when your starting point is closest in its orbit to your destination. The trade off with using the warp drive is you typically spend more delta-v to circularize at your destination, but you can get to Eeloo, perform a landing mission, and then return your samples to kerbin in less than one in-game day.

http://i.imgur.com/JVbUV6u.png

This is the radiator I'm using. It has a deploy action that doesn't do anything (it's only visible in the VAB action group menu, or with the action group manager plugin). Waste heat builds up unless I toggle the resource flow off like I've done in the image. I don't know if it's supposed to be this way or if it's a bug.

That model of radiator works just by slapping it on your vessel. There is no need to deploy. As long as waste heat doesn't cap out and cause stuff to shut down, you are good. Think of waste heat bar like your avg temp bar. As long as it doesn't cap out, you are good and stuff won't shut down. The more radiating capability you have, the lower your avg temp will be, the lower the waste heat bar will be, and the more efficient your generators will be at generating MW from thermal power.

Turning off waste heat flow on the part like you have shown in the pic used to basically turn off waste heat. I'm not sure how that works in 0.9 now. At any rate, don't toggle it off if you want to play the mod as intended. If you want to turn off the waste heat, there is a setting in the WarpPluginSettings.cfg file you can tweak. Change "ThermalMechanicsDisabled = False" to " ThermalMechanicsDisabled = True" and that should turn off waste heat.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Eadrom

[Astronomer]

The new megajoule display button does not disappear with the rest of the UI when pressing F2.

EDIT: I've come up with a temporary fix - I found these icons that serve as a more appealing replacement imo.

Small (*recommended):

Medium:

Huge:

Just save them and replace the "megajoule_click.png" with them in Kerbal Space Program\GameData\WarpPlugin.

*they have the same size in-game as they appear on your screen right now assuming this is the same resolution you use in KSP

Edited December 19, 2013 by Astronomer

[Kilmeister]

Yes, I was about to ask about that icon. I doesn't go away when you press F2.

[chaospockets109]

I'm having a weird problem with the ISRU in the VAB. When I mouse over it, the image of the module balloons out of its window, through the camera (turning invisible when it does so). I can still drop the module onto rockets and stuff, but it's a WEIRD effect. Anyone else getting that?

All that aside, congrats on a superb mod - loving its challenge, rewards, lack of cheatiness and absence of parts-bloat.

[Fractal_UK]

I'm having a weird problem with the ISRU in the VAB. When I mouse over it, the image of the module balloons out of its window, through the camera (turning invisible when it does so). I can still drop the module onto rockets and stuff, but it's a WEIRD effect. Anyone else getting that?

All that aside, congrats on a superb mod - loving its challenge, rewards, lack of cheatiness and absence of parts-bloat.

Yeah, it's a known problem that has been affecting a few mods since the 0.23 KSP update. I don't really know why it happens but we do now have a solution to it, so that's the main thing - that'll be in the next update. I'll try to get a revised 0.9 update out in the next few days.

[Scootaloo]

For some reason Waste heat doesn't build up…at all. At least it doesn't show. The negative effects are still there. Just not positive things like Microwave transmitting. I can't do that.

Something isn't playing nice in this mod...with my other mods maybe, or with OSX as a whole. I had a similar problem with RemoteTech, where no matter what I was doing the add-on didn't perform as advertised.

Any idea what the problem is? I'm also using KW (texture reduced), Ferram Aerospace aerodynamics changes, Ferram attachment reinforcement, Kethane, RLA electric engines, Deadly Reentry, and the BoulderCo KSP reduction.

[Konnor]

I am not sure if radial intakes will be checked by the code - I'm more targeting an intake -> pre-cooler -> engine or intake -> pre-cooler -> reactor -> engine set up. I particularly like the combination of the B9 sabre intake and B9 sabre precooler. High altitude/velocity atmospheric flight has got much much easier since 0.23 so you shouldn't need as many intakes now anyway. This is really something I wanted to include to draw a distinction between aeroplanes designed for hypersonic flight in the atmosphere and spaceplanes that are actually capable of achieving orbit.

It will probably make designs like these, relying completely on radial intakes, impossible:

I'm not sure whether they should work in real life, but they represent a case where radial intakes were added not just to squeeze some more air out of upper atmosphere but are the only source of that air whatsoever.

[Donziboy2]

Just an FYI Fractal_UK, the B9 parts have not been updated to 0.23 yet, also Firespitter has updated so you may need to update the plugin you include with KSPI.

And how do you get those bloody Intercoolers to work

Edited December 19, 2013 by Donziboy2

[Fractal_UK]

For some reason Waste heat doesn't build up…at all. At least it doesn't show. The negative effects are still there. Just not positive things like Microwave transmitting. I can't do that.

Something isn't playing nice in this mod...with my other mods maybe, or with OSX as a whole. I had a similar problem with RemoteTech, where no matter what I was doing the add-on didn't perform as advertised.

Any idea what the problem is? I'm also using KW (texture reduced), Ferram Aerospace aerodynamics changes, Ferram attachment reinforcement, Kethane, RLA electric engines, Deadly Reentry, and the BoulderCo KSP reduction.

One of the most common causes of weird problems is an incorrect install location, it's worth checking that you don't have two GameData folders appearing in the path or something.

It will probably make designs like these, relying completely on radial intakes, impossible:

-pictures-

I'm not sure whether they should work in real life, but they represent a case where radial intakes were added not just to squeeze some more air out of upper atmosphere but are the only source of that air whatsoever.

Remember that when you switched to some sort of closed cycle engine overheating will not be a problem so, it's still possible to build an SSTO aircraft using these radial intakes, it simply means that you have to switch over to internal fuel a little earlier. You can actually perform the switchover just before the overheating reaches maximum and you're only losing a few hundred m/s compared to a precooled design.

Just an FYI Fractal_UK, the B9 parts have not been updated to 0.23 yet, also Firespitter has updated so you may need to update the plugin you include with KSPI.

And how do you get those bloody Intercoolers to work

I just used ModuleManager to make these changes, there isn't really a way to target cargobay doors or air-breathing engines programatically so I just used MM configs to change them manually.

[cy-one]

Soooo... KSP Interstellar has that weird "energy lightning symbol" to the lower right... What does it do? Can I get rid of it?