[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[kiwiak]

Why are thermal noozles so poverfull compared to LV-N from stock?

I men, 2800 of specific impulse? Thats quite overkill.

[tanelorn]

I am having a major issue with the science compartment. I have generated 11 points of insight. Even though there is room for 100 points, it says that it is out of insight storage. I also have a Storage container attached, where I transferred the insight. This made no difference to the out of storage message.

A further issue, is the amount of science generated. My science pod is orbiting the moon, and I can transmit 99 science points basically infinitely. I am getting 200% transmission, and no diminishing returns. I have some other mods running, but they are not science related. I just have the engineer redux, scan satellite, and mapping satellite.

Any help is appreciated…

[TheTom]

Not really. Look at the thrust and the weight of all the support material you need. I can get a LV-N ship up from the ground - not one with thermal noozles initially (un-upgraded). Their thrust is LOW and the reactor etc. has a serious weight on top. The Noozle itself is just the exhaust part - it is useless without the reactor and (fission) infrastructure (cooling for shutdown phases).

[Patupi]

As a suggestion for future development, the precoolers and existing jet engines work well to simulate turbojets. Perhaps you could add in new precoolers and jets that only work with each other and not with existing ones, to simulate ram or scram jets? Right now it's a bit more difficult (but certainly not impossible) to get SSTO planes to work with the new precoolers. If we have to use a three engines system, one jet for low speed, one jet for high speed high alt, and rockets to circularize orbits it would at least help a little.

Of course it could just be me. I'm notoriously bad at planes in KSP. *grins* I can design and build a small SSTO in stock, but when they get large... I have difficulty balancing lift/mass/fuel distribution and getting the intakes etc right... and that doesn't even count my record landing planes!

Edited January 9, 2014 by Patupi

[Atragon]

I've heard reports of people who have SCANsat installed having some major problems with the magnetometer. I think the GUI button also has a habit of disappearing if you use it a time when the experiment isn't available, if that happens, reloading the craft should fix it.

I've heard reports of people who have SCANsat installed having some major problems with the magnetometer. I think the GUI button also has a habit of disappearing if you use it a time when the experiment isn't available, if that happens, reloading the craft should fix it.

I tried removing scansat with no effect. I can activate and de-activate the magnetometers via the GUI, but there is no log button visible, and the action group I configured in the VAB does nothing.

Log files and a screenshot:

KSP.log https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7sb9khpehzqcl0/KSP.log

output_log.txt https://www.dropbox.com/s/q09voydjpnw0san/output_log.txt

screenshot showing GUI visible https://www.dropbox.com/s/utq97vlq77fk0wv/screenshot2.png

[Fractal_UK]

I tried removing scansat with no effect. I can activate and de-activate the magnetometers via the GUI, but there is no log button visible, and the action group I configured in the VAB does nothing.

Log files and a screenshot:

KSP.log https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7sb9khpehzqcl0/KSP.log

output_log.txt https://www.dropbox.com/s/q09voydjpnw0san/output_log.txt

screenshot showing GUI visible https://www.dropbox.com/s/utq97vlq77fk0wv/screenshot2.png

It looks like you have bigger problems that just the magnetometer not working, it seems to be your other science experiments too and various other parts as well - this is just a sample of all the parts that are having problems.

[WRN 08:56:44.302] Part GooExperiment cannot load module #2. It only has 2 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.302] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.303] Part GooExperiment cannot load module #3. It only has 2 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.303] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.309] Part GooExperiment cannot load module #2. It only has 2 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.310] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.310] Part GooExperiment cannot load module #3. It only has 2 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.311] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.317] Part sensorThermometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.318] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.319] Part sensorThermometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.319] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.326] Part sensorBarometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.327] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.327] Part sensorBarometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.328] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.334] Part sensorBarometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.335] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.336] Part sensorBarometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.336] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.343] Part sensorThermometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.344] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.345] Part sensorThermometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.345] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.352] Part sensorAccelerometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.353] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.353] Part sensorAccelerometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.354] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.360] Part sensorAccelerometer cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.361] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.361] Part sensorAccelerometer cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.362] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.369] Part sensorGravimeter cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.370] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.370] Part sensorGravimeter cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.371] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.378] Part sensorGravimeter cannot load module #3. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.378] PartModule is null.
[WRN 08:56:44.379] Part sensorGravimeter cannot load module #4. It only has 3 modules defined
[WRN 08:56:44.380] PartModule is null.

You could try rebuilding your saved craft from scratch and see if you see an improvement. If that doesn't work I'd suggest starting a new savegame with the stock game and start adding mods back one by one until you have a problem.

I'm sorry I can't help more, but I guarantee the magnetometer does work in career mode, something is making it fail - unfortunately I can't determine what from the log file.

[Deredere]

This is all criticism, again, which I feel bad about, but I really like your mod and it would be awesome if it wasn't so confusing for new players and convoluted for casual players.

currently you experience a jump between zero and viable antimatter production.

That isn't a problem. That's completely logical from a game-design perspective. Doing things that aren't viable or practical just because you can does not appeal to the majority of people.

KSPI is already severely underdocumented - for instance, nowhere anywhere in the thread or wiki or game is it mentioned that only upgraded fusion reactors can swap fuels. I had to go into a sandbox game to find that out after trying in vain to figure it out for half an hour. Adding more complexity that will need annotation to the effect of "Doing this at the initial tech level is a gigantic waste of time" to prevent people from excitedly building antimatter infrastructure only to find it completely worthless isn't a good direction to be going in.

I'm also interested to hear suggestions and what priorities you would want to see developed in future versions.

Make ISRU actually viable. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but this will likely involve acknowledging that Kethane exists and a lot of people use it and giving ISRU some advantages over Kethane - the methane engines are a good example, but KSPI resources need to work with modular fuels because having one randomly shaped tank that works with each specific KSPI resource is depressing.

Make fission reactors burn fuel a little faster so there's actually some chance you'd need to refuel them eventually, that gives uranium/thorium mining a shot, and make refueling them not totally pointless. I'm pretty sure flying a new reactor out from Kerbin is more practical than refueling no matter where you are in the Kerbol system. Any nuclear reactor designed to be refueled in space would simply eject its reaction assembly into space. Refueling shouldn't require weeks.

Make fusion reactors burn fuel a lot faster and make tritium/He-3 available in pre-filled tanks. I said it before recently but tritium and He-3 synthesis isn't realistic OR fun. Antimatter is the only resource that should require infrastructure because that's both realistic and the huge advantages antimatter offers make it very worthwhile from a fun perspective.

[Konnor]

Interesting, I too get these "cannot load module #N" messages, though on other parts (stock cockpits, fuselages, engines). But I did not encounter any non-working experiments so far.

Make fusion reactors burn fuel a lot faster

I believe they already burn fusion reaction fuel rather fast. Can probably end up empty after a trip to Jool or something (if left active, that is).

But speaking of fusion again: the DT Vista engine shows its Isp, but given how high it is, the engine will most likely run out of deuterium/tritium first. It would probably be useful to see some sort of "D/T consumption efficiency", something that resembles Isp but applies to D/T instead of fuel. Unless it is the same for any thrust (I don't remember whether it is or not).

Or maybe a similar reading for the reactors, especially antimatter ones (again, I remember that antimater reactors consume more antimatter while running an engine than in idle state, but I can be wrong).

[Fractal_UK]

That isn't a problem. That's completely logical from a game-design perspective. Doing things that aren't viable or practical just because you can does not appeal to the majority of people.

KSPI is already severely underdocumented - for instance, nowhere anywhere in the thread or wiki or game is it mentioned that only upgraded fusion reactors can swap fuels. I had to go into a sandbox game to find that out after trying in vain to figure it out for half an hour. Adding more complexity that will need annotation to the effect of "Doing this at the initial tech level is a gigantic waste of time" to prevent people from excitedly building antimatter infrastructure only to find it completely worthless isn't a good direction to be going in.

The point is that I'm interested in adding intermediate parts in the future that need to use a tiny bit of antimatter by existing part standard. At the moment, you unlock the ability to produce antimatter before you actually unlock the items that actually use it, that provides scope for earlier technologies that don't require anywhere near as much as a pure antimatter system.

Make ISRU actually viable. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but this will likely involve acknowledging that Kethane exists and a lot of people use it and giving ISRU some advantages over Kethane - the methane engines are a good example, but KSPI resources need to work with modular fuels because having one randomly shaped tank that works with each specific KSPI resource is depressing.

Make fission reactors burn fuel a little faster so there's actually some chance you'd need to refuel them eventually, that gives uranium/thorium mining a shot, and make refueling them not totally pointless. I'm pretty sure flying a new reactor out from Kerbin is more practical than refueling no matter where you are in the Kerbol system. Any nuclear reactor designed to be refueled in space would simply eject its reaction assembly into space. Refueling shouldn't require weeks.

Make fusion reactors burn fuel a lot faster and make tritium/He-3 available in pre-filled tanks. I said it before recently but tritium and He-3 synthesis isn't realistic OR fun. Antimatter is the only resource that should require infrastructure because that's both realistic and the huge advantages antimatter offers make it very worthwhile from a fun perspective.

Fission reactors, especially the larger reactors and upgraded ones already burn fuel quickly enough that refueling is fairly important. The lifetime for the top reactors can easily reach a couple of hundred days, which is comparable to an interplanetary voyage. I'm hoping to get my hands on some new parts for resource extraction and reprocessing in the near future which will hopefully make transporting the equipment to mine various materials a bit easier - no need to lug the large refinery around. I definitely regard this as the most important goal in this area.

Tritium and He-3 synthesis is realistic, neither occur naturally (well okay, He-3 does but He-4 is rare on Earth and He-3 is orders of magnitude rarer still so fuel production is totally unviable on Earth) and producing tritium is also extremely easy. For reference, at current prices, the amount of Tritium that you start off with in a 1.25m reactor is worth ~ $750 million so it's already pretty generous. Instead of bankrupting your space program further, you take Lithium with you and it becomes the stuff you want on the way. Additionally, fusion reactors (and particularly the DT Vista) are powerful enough that they really need the extra balancing factor of resource acquisition.

Many spaceprograms have real problems with the availability of radioactive elements, Plutonium-238 used for RTGs is a good real-life example because it is no longer produced in the US or Russia yet is used in the vast majority of RTG power systems. Lack of availability is going to pose a real problem in the near future if new Pu-238 isn't produced.

But speaking of fusion again: the DT Vista engine shows its Isp, but given how high it is, the engine will most likely run out of deuterium/tritium first. It would probably be useful to see some sort of "D/T consumption efficiency", something that resembles Isp but applies to D/T instead of fuel. Unless it is the same for any thrust (I don't remember whether it is or not).

Or maybe a similar reading for the reactors, especially antimatter ones (again, I remember that antimater reactors consume more antimatter while running an engine than in idle state, but I can be wrong).

The DT vista always burns Deuterium/Tritium at the same rate, regardless of throttle because the power requirements remain constant due to the way the variable Isp works. Antimatter useage (and nuclear fuel useage) does change though, so I could show that.

[Lightwarrior]

Actually tritium/He-3 and even antimatter production is really easy if you produce them directly on your ship, not somewhere else.

Just tested one simple idea. Ship with DT Vista, powered by 3.75m fission thorium reactor, with science lab already there to reprocess fuel can produce enough antimatter while traveling from kerbin to eve for antimatter powered lander to land and return to orbit using only ~1/2 of produced antimatter. Lab is not that heavy, so it seems that just taking it with you to use all those power your ship is producing anyway during transfers will give lots of antimatter.

[Patupi]

One other thing, with the D/T Vista where it is in the tree it does seem more advanced than the Fusion reactors+thermal rocket nozzles. Could it be put in the next topic, or a new one for it made? Just a thought. Just feels like it should be a little beyond, even if in reality a nozzle might be more practical than a controlled confinement fusion reactor.

[RadHazard]

Why are thermal noozles so poverfull compared to LV-N from stock?

I men, 2800 of specific impulse? Thats quite overkill.

It's actually not. In order to get 2800 ISP, you need to upgrade them, which requires you to research fusion reactors first. Otherwise, they have an ISP of 915 using pure liquid fuel, which puts them only slightly above the stock LV-N, and is more than balanced out by their significantly lower thrust. It's actually fairly difficult to find a niche where the unupgraded 1.25m fission reactor outperforms the stock LV-N. I don't really see this as a problem though, since the way fission reactors scale, the 2.5m and 3.75m are useful for thermal rocket nozzles, and the 1.25m is still useful for thermal turbojets and producing large amounts of electricity.

In addition to the balancing factor of extra research, they still produce less thrust than an equal weight in LV-Ns, even when upgraded. Even using LFO, the 1.25m reactor has only about half the thrust of an LV-N for a very similar weight, and the ISP drops to 1675.

Once you get past fission and into fusion and antimatter, yes, the nozzles do get much more powerful compared to the stock LV-N. However, at that point, you've clearly surpassed the tech level of the LV-N (And invested a lot of science points in doing so), so it doesn't seem problematic to me. This is definitely an end-game mod.

[Fractal_UK]

One other thing, with the D/T Vista where it is in the tree it does seem more advanced than the Fusion reactors+thermal rocket nozzles. Could it be put in the next topic, or a new one for it made? Just a thought. Just feels like it should be a little beyond, even if in reality a nozzle might be more practical than a controlled confinement fusion reactor.

Ideally, yes but rewriting the tech tree and making sure everyone gets the new tech tech tree would be a difficult task indeed. In principle though, I agree, it is obviously better than the other parts on the same tech node - it's big and heavy and still requires massive fission reactors to power when you unlock it but if you do it, it's obviously very very powerful.

[kiwiak]

It's actually not. In order to get 2800 ISP, you need to upgrade them, which requires you to research fusion reactors first. Otherwise, they have an ISP of 915 using pure liquid fuel, which puts them only slightly above the stock LV-N, and is more than balanced out by their significantly lower thrust. It's actually fairly difficult to find a niche where the unupgraded 1.25m fission reactor outperforms the stock LV-N. I don't really see this as a problem though, since the way fission reactors scale, the 2.5m and 3.75m are useful for thermal rocket nozzles, and the 1.25m is still useful for thermal turbojets and producing large amounts of electricity.

In addition to the balancing factor of extra research, they still produce less thrust than an equal weight in LV-Ns, even when upgraded. Even using LFO, the 1.25m reactor has only about half the thrust of an LV-N for a very similar weight, and the ISP drops to 1675.

Once you get past fission and into fusion and antimatter, yes, the nozzles do get much more powerful compared to the stock LV-N. However, at that point, you've clearly surpassed the tech level of the LV-N (And invested a lot of science points in doing so), so it doesn't seem problematic to me. This is definitely an end-game mod.

But you are reffering to carrer mode, right? In sandbox it seems that nozzles have 2800 from beggining.

[Fractal_UK]

But you are reffering to carrer mode, right? In sandbox it seems that nozzles have 2800 from beggining.

All parts are automatically upgraded by default in sandbox mode.

[RadHazard]

But you are reffering to carrer mode, right? In sandbox it seems that nozzles have 2800 from beggining.

Yes, in sandbox mode you have the upgraded fission reactors from the beginning. I'm not really sure why this is an issue, since there's no reason to balance sandbox mode around any particular level. In any case, there's still the issue of thrust with fission-powered thermal nozzles even in sandbox mode. Additionally, you have the plasma engine, DT-Vista, antimatter reactors, and the warp drive unlocked, all of which are far superior to the fission-powered thermal nozzle anyway.

[Atragon]

It looks like you have bigger problems that just the magnetometer not working, it seems to be your other science experiments too and various other parts as well - this is just a sample of all the parts that are having problems.

You could try rebuilding your saved craft from scratch and see if you see an improvement. If that doesn't work I'd suggest starting a new savegame with the stock game and start adding mods back one by one until you have a problem.

I'm sorry I can't help more, but I guarantee the magnetometer does work in career mode, something is making it fail - unfortunately I can't determine what from the log file.

I'm not sure which mod is causing the module loading issues, but I figured out what was causing the magnetometer issues...

I had the crowd sourced science logs installed, which replaces the stock ScienceDefs.cfg file with another one. To make sure I could revert back to stock, I made a backup copy of the ScienceDefs.cfg file without changing the extension. It seems like ksp was trying to load both, which both shut down the magnetometer, and was the cause of some nasty spontaneous vessel disassembly issues I was having. Moving the backup copy out of the resources folder fixed the issues. (The part module issue is still there, but everything seems to work...)

[rpayne88]

Sorry if someone already asked this. I noticed that each EVA'd kerbal and command pod has a radiation exposure tab. I've also noticed you have included background radiation in space. Can this radiation harm my kerbals?

[Fractal_UK]

Sorry if someone already asked this. I noticed that each EVA'd kerbal and command pod has a radiation exposure tab. I've also noticed you have included background radiation in space. Can this radiation harm my kerbals?

No, it can't, it's just informative. The only radiation that can harm Kerbals comes from nearby active DT vista engines.

[ncore]

How do you make it so you don't need to study antimatter before getting better upgrades? I looked into the .cfg files of the antimatter collector and found nothing useful to modify. Also, I am not getting any options to study anything when I attach the science modules to my ships :/

[Fractal_UK]

How do you make it so you don't need to study antimatter before getting better upgrades? I looked into the .cfg files of the antimatter collector and found nothing useful to modify.

I'm not really sure what you mean? What are you trying to do exactly?

Also, I am not getting any options to study anything when I attach the science modules to my ships :/

Again, I'm going to need more specifics. Which modules aren't working for you and exactly at what point are you unable to use the science options. A KSP.log file and potentially a screenshot showing the problem would also be useful.

[LucidPixels]

I am having some difficulty getting the custom tech tree to work. Attempting to isolate the issue, I started with a clean install and only added Interstellar. However, on starting a new campaign the tech tree selector shows nothing available but stock. The parts that correspond to nodes on the tree that already exist do work, but the new nodes beyond stock do not appear.

Edit: Finally found this post upthread. Starting a new game, deleting notree.cfg and placing the linked tree.cfg file in the save folder seems to have cleared it up.

Edited January 10, 2014 by LucidPixels

[cziken20]

I.ve got a bug that makes the ISRU still red even when connected. Any help?

[Nelien]

I've run into a critical bug:

[KSP Interstellar] Loading Planetary Resource Data for Kerbin

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

UnityException: Texture 'WarpPlugin/PlanetResourceData/kerbin_uranium' is not readable, the texture memory can not be accessed from scripts. You can make the texture readable in the Texture Import Settings.
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Texture2D:GetPixel (int,int)

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.getPixelAbundanceValue (Int32 pix_x, Int32 pix_y, FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceInfo resource_info) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.loadPlanetaryResourceData (Int32 body) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.getResourceAvailability (Int32 body, System.String resourcename, Double lat, Double lng) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNResourceScanner.OnFixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.ModulesOnFixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

[KSP Interstellar] Loading Planetary Resource Data. Length: 35

This is spammed all over the debug causing my game to grind to a halt. It happens when I have the Gamma Ray Spectometer on my ship.

[Fractal_UK]

I've run into a critical bug:

[KSP Interstellar] Loading Planetary Resource Data for Kerbin

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

UnityException: Texture 'WarpPlugin/PlanetResourceData/kerbin_uranium' is not readable, the texture memory can not be accessed from scripts. You can make the texture readable in the Texture Import Settings.
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Texture2D:GetPixel (int,int)

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.getPixelAbundanceValue (Int32 pix_x, Int32 pix_y, FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceInfo resource_info) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.loadPlanetaryResourceData (Int32 body) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNPlanetaryResourceMapData.getResourceAvailability (Int32 body, System.String resourcename, Double lat, Double lng) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FNPlugin.FNResourceScanner.OnFixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.ModulesOnFixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

[KSP Interstellar] Loading Planetary Resource Data. Length: 35

This is spammed all over the debug causing my game to grind to a halt. It happens when I have the Gamma Ray Spectometer on my ship.

Have you checked that your installation includes the file it notes: GameData/WarpPlugin/PlanetResourceData/kerbin_uranium.png ? Check out that that file is there and opens properly. You may need to delete the WarpPlugin folder, download a new copy of Interstellar and reinstall.