TheTom Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Just a stupid quetion - is it possible to build a fission and fusion reactor complex on Mun that is self sufficient? I.e. can I mine the fuel there? I would rather not make a rover of boom and park it near all the ducks of the space center, and satellites are a crap to refuel once they run out (far away and I hate doing that in eva's) So, if Mun would have the necessary raws (or minimus - at least I could do some shuttling then) I could park some reactor drops close to my soom coming Mun Kethane Mining and relay the power down to the space complex.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) On the mun, ice is contained in the polar craters but there isn't water anywhere else on the surface.On minmus, there is ice everywhere in at least small quantities.I'm going to add a Dynamic Albedo of Neutrons detector to allow you to rove around and find what the concentration is in each area.So no comment on the concentration of water-ice on the ice lakes of Minmus?Just a stupid quetion - is it possible to build a fission and fusion reactor complex on Mun that is self sufficient? I.e. can I mine the fuel there? I would rather not make a rover of boom and park it near all the ducks of the space center, and satellites are a crap to refuel once they run out (far away and I hate doing that in eva's) So, if Mun would have the necessary raws (or minimus - at least I could do some shuttling then) I could park some reactor drops close to my soom coming Mun Kethane Mining and relay the power down to the space complex..With water-ice now on Minmus.. you no longer even need Kethane!~Steve Edited February 5, 2014 by NeoAcario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightwarrior Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 All you need for fission reactors is either uf4 or thf4. You can get both there. And fusion reactors seem to be rather hard to make self sufficient, so they are probably not worth of effort for such use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umlüx Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 i never mined in KSP-I until today... but it really looks interesting!you say "small quantities"... is water/ice an exhaustable ressource? or does it only affect the yield of your mining operations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodemunkey Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 How do i find and harvest resources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 All you need for fission reactors is either uf4 or thf4. You can get both there. And fusion reactors seem to be rather hard to make self sufficient, so they are probably not worth of effort for such use.Fuel balancer mod + location to mine fusion radioactives = self sufficient.Just make sure you have a single can with you so that you can reprocess. Use the balancer mod to dump depleted. Simple.~Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 i never mined in KSP-I until today... but it really looks interesting!you say "small quantities"... is water/ice an exhaustable ressource? or does it only affect the yield of your mining operations?By small quantities he likely is referencing the intake value, or how much you get over time, rather than a finite quantity. So in some locations you get only a little over time, other locations you get more quantity of water for the same time spent mining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 By small quantities he likely is referencing the intake value, or how much you get over time, rather than a finite quantity. So in some locations you get only a little over time, other locations you get more quantity of water for the same time spent mining.Hope that's the case. I never did like how finite the resources were with Kethane. I've mined out the Mun and Minmus in less than a year before. It's just sad.~Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umlüx Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 exactly. a whole celestial body.. and only some big'ol'ranges worth of kethane? thats somewhat disappointing.thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The amount of Kethane on the mun and minmus could keep a fleet of plasma thruster ships going for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I see only one possible problem for trying to rely purely on KSPI for mining: Mono-propellant. Guess I can design around it. All I'll have to do is include a reaction wheel (when needed) on my ships and simply use Monoprop for final docking. Easy enough. Carry a surplus in orbital stations and do the occasional delivery.I am a bit curious why we can't produce hydrogen peroxide even on Kerbin. I'm assuming the atmosphere is similar to Earth's... still not enough CO2? What planets can we produce it on? Is there no other way to produce CO2? Carbon is basically in most matter... O2 is in surplus when trying to make fuel from electrolysis... Is there nothing that can be done? Perhaps one more process to be added to the refinery?The amount of Kethane on the mun and minmus could keep a fleet of plasma thruster ships going for a long time.Sorry, all of my ships run off of AM and LFO. Gotta love that huge thrust with 8.5k ISP. I use the 2.5m combination on my main craft.~Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Sorry, all of my ships run off of AM and LFO. Gotta love that huge thrust with 8.5k ISP. I use the 2.5m combination on my main craft.~SteveYa, your good until your AM runs out, im running on a relay network, im up to 36GW receiving. That gets me about 470KN at 11k ISP. And there is no reactor/gen weighing me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Ya, your good until your AM runs out, im running on a relay network, im up to 36GW receiving. That gets me about 470KN at 11k ISP. And there is no reactor/gen weighing me down.Same size can as reactor holds 6 2/3 hours of full burn time. Jool AMF(arm) is just a quick warp away and makes me something like 20k units a day (I built it small this time) and stores about 3m units. I keep a 1m storage parked at KSC. I'm fine on AM. I've got that pipeline already running.I just didn't feel like making an infrastructure of relays if I could help it. Although I am reconsidering it if I can find a good place on Minmus for both water-ice and some radioactive. I'm actually in the middle of launching a probe right now. If I can find a good location I might just set up a major base there with self sufficient reactors with a massive GW transmitting and refueling station. Tossed a quick relay probe together and I think, if I do it, my goal will be 40gw (what my tiny probes can radiate).~Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractal_UK Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 My general assumption with respect to resources is that if they exist on the planet, they exist in large enough quantities that you can't mine it all out. The abundance only affects the time required and thus the total energy. The problem with monoprop production on Kerbin is not hydrogen peroxide, it's the ammonia. That could conceivably be made on Kerbin using the Haber-Bosch process with atmospheric nitrogen and hydrogen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 My general assumption with respect to resources is that if they exist on the planet, they exist in large enough quantities that you can't mine it all out. The abundance only affects the time required and thus the total energy. The problem with monoprop production on Kerbin is not hydrogen peroxide, it's the ammonia. That could conceivably be made on Kerbin using the Haber-Bosch process with atmospheric nitrogen and hydrogen.I was just trying to make Hydrogen peroxide on the launchpad and was being told that there wasn't enough CO2... bug?~Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractal_UK Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I was just trying to make Hydrogen peroxide on the launchpad and was being told that there wasn't enough CO2... bug?~SteveH2O2 production is the anthraquinone process, it just requires water. CO2 is needed for the sabatier process, which produces methane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) H2O2 production is the anthraquinone process, it just requires water. CO2 is needed for the sabatier process, which produces methane.Apparently I'm a moron. It both didn't occur to me that I had to transfer the water into the refinery to work the processes... and I didn't verify which one it was. My apologies.Another matter... are hotspot locations broken on Minmus? With an orbital probe gama ray spectrometer I'm getting over 55ppm of Uranium on the slopes on the west side of the great flats... but no hot spots show. This is one of the highest concentrations I've seen yet.Do we have to mine in a hotspot? Or is it just best for results to do so.. regardless of the GRS readings?~SteveEDIT:Does the process to make H2O2 put off the expected byproduct of Liquid Fuel? An amount of H2 is obviously being expelled.. no? Edited February 5, 2014 by NeoAcario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelLestat Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Fractal, can you answer my 623 page post about sails. Why nobody else use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I can see that trying to make Hydrazine in an environment lacking in Ammonia is unfeasible. It seems to take 100 units of Ammonia for every 1 unit of Hydrazine (monoprop). Ouch. Guess I won't be shipping Ammonia to a future Minmus base to produce Monoprop.This is obviously a bug, right Fractal? It's supposed to be 2 NH3 + H202 -> H2N-N2H +2H20So shouldn't it be 2 Ammonia and 1 Hydrogen Peroxide to yield 1 Hydrazine and 2 water?~Steve Edited February 5, 2014 by NeoAcario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Do we have to mine in a hotspot? Or is it just best for results to do so.. regardless of the GRS readings?You don't have to mine directly on a hotspot.Fractal, can you answer my 623 page post about sails. Why nobody else use them?Plenty of people are using them. I've used them quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3-Chris Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I tried the solar sail in kerbin orbit, deployed it when I was heading "away" from the sun in my orbit (behind me when pointing prograde), but for some reason my orbit didn't elongate as if I was making a prograde burn, it turned more elliptic without any semimajoraxis gain, as if I was burning rad +/-, very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I tried the solar sail in kerbin orbit, deployed it when I was heading "away" from the sun in my orbit (behind me when pointing prograde), but for some reason my orbit didn't elongate as if I was making a prograde burn, it turned more elliptic without any semimajoraxis gain, as if I was burning rad +/-, very confusing.You will gain velocity in the direction the sunlight will be reflected off of the sail. Its hard to wrap your head around but once you get it they're fairly easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3-Chris Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 You will gain velocity in the direction the sunlight will be reflected off of the sail. Its hard to wrap your head around but once you get it they're fairly easy to use.The sun was directly behind me and I was gaining speed sideways, 90 degrees from the angle I would have expected, I've sailed on a sailing boat, I know how sails work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forsaken1111 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The sun was directly behind me and I was gaining speed sideways, 90 degrees from the angle I would have expected, I've sailed on a sailing boat, I know how sails work.My apologies. Perhaps you found a bug then. I didn't mean to impugn your expertise in the art of sailing, I'm sure it is entirely applicable to fictional spacecraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoAcario Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I haven't checked the chemistry / math on the other refinery features... are they all as insanely inefficient as the process to make Hydrazine (monoprop)? Only 2% efficiency is just... I have no words. The average meth lab does better than this. I'm really hoping it's just a bug and not working as intended.Anyone use all of the refinery features?~SteveEdit:Ok... that time it was almost 1:1... what gives. Edited February 5, 2014 by NeoAcario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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