[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Gilliam]

You made one slightly flawed assumption - that water was present everywhere on Minmus. It isn't.

If you want the cheat sheet, you can take a look at GameData\WarpPlugin\PlanetResourceData\minmus_water.png and the other pngs in that folder - they're the distribution maps for where you can find given resources, and their relative densities.

I currently have an ISRU on minmus and it is happily extracting water, and turning it into fuel for me, so the mechanics do work, it's just a matter of placement

Thanks, this cleared up a lot for me. I checked the folder you mentioned, but there is no minmus_water.png map. There is a duna water map, but for minmus there is only thorium and uranium. Could this be because i am using an outdated version of the mod? I will download it again and see if the planetresourcedata folder contains different files.

[mdapol]

I think it was passed over because it isn't clear what you are asking.

If you are creating a new part with a custom mesh, you don't need to use MM to set it up, you just need to add the appropriate MODULE into the part.cfg file.

I believe the module in question is

MODULE
{
    name = DTMagnetometer
    animName = deploy
}

On the other hand, if you're trying to add the function onto some other existing part, the MM config for it would be something like

@PART[insertPartNameHere]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = DTMagnetometer
        animName = useCorrectAnimationNameFromYourPartHere
    }
}

You'd need to insert the part name and the animation name, or if the new part isn't animated, just delete that line from the config, though I have no idea if the MODULE will still work without an animation.

That did the trick nicely. Thanks very much!

[Woodstar]

Thanks, this cleared up a lot for me. I checked the folder you mentioned, but there is no minmus_water.png map. There is a duna water map, but for minmus there is only thorium and uranium. Could this be because i am using an outdated version of the mod? I will download it again and see if the planetresourcedata folder contains different files.

I looked at the .png and as far as i can tell all the water is on the flats? It's had for me to tell because there are only two colors grey and light grey?!?!?

[Northstar1989]

- You should be able to limit the power consumed from the microwave network on the side of the receiver; Receiving all of the power often over-thrusts and destroys things, like my poor spaceplane which was beaten to a pulp by 200GW of power from an orbiting antimatter reactor...

FractalUK already announced this is something he's working on... (or am I behind- did he already fix it?)

- Solar panels should fuel electric generators in the same manner that reactors do. This makes sense given that solar panels generate thermal energy that can be transmitted via microwave.

Clearly, you don't understand how a photovoltaic panel works. Photovoltaics generate an electric current directly on exposure to light- NOT thermal energy which is turned into an electric current. Thus, they have absolutely no need for generators, either in KSP-I or in the real world.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Edit: I can't quite remember if unupgraded nuclear reactors are better than unupgraded fusion reactors :l

Absolutely and completely not. Basic-level fusion is *WAY* better than basic-level fission.

Clearly you've been spoiled by playing with the upper-level reactors for too long.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

True, but you could always add

MODULE
{
	name = FNResourceScanner
	resourceName = Water
	mapViewAvailable = true
}

to a scanner part to make a detector.

It would be nice if FractalUK would add this to the standard mod though. In real-life, Gamma Ray Spectormeters can be utilized to detect a lot more than just radioactive elements- one of the, *MANY* things they have historically been used to detect is subsurface deposits of water on Mars!

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/mission/instruments/grs/

@FractalUK

Are you reading this? You already have the part, the real-life science, and somebody even handed you the code that part needs! It shouldn't be that difficult to implement...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 28, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Gilliam]

I just installed the newest version of KSPI and i have a lot more resource maps in my resource data folder. I'm going to assume that this fixes it. Thanks a lot for the help!

[Fractal_UK]

It would be nice if FractalUK would add this to the standard mod though. In real-life, Gamma Ray Spectormeters can be utilized to detect a lot more than just radioactive elements- one of the, *MANY* things they have historically been used to detect is subsurface deposits of water on Mars!

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/mission/instruments/grs/

@FractalUK

Are you reading this? You already have the part, the real-life science, and somebody even handed you the code that part needs! It shouldn't be that difficult to implement...

Technically, that is not correct. Gamma ray spectrometers cannot be used to detect the presence of water, water is detected by neutron spectrometers which measure counts of fast and fast+thermal neutrons to infer the thermal neutron rate which is indicative of the presence of water moderating those neutrons.

On several science platforms, neutron spectrometers are integrated into the same science package as gamma ray spectrometers and those packages are, for some reason, collectively referred to as the GRS instrument. However, there is no way to infer water content using gamma spectroscopy.

There will, in future, be a neutron spectrometer part for measuring the presence of water.

[Northstar1989]

Thanks a lot for clarifying this. In order to make methane on duna im going to need t bring a certain amount of hydrogen (liquid fuel) right?

Actually, you don't. You can obtain all your hydrogen (LiquidFuel) by electrolyzing water on Duna. You can then combine this hydrogen with the CO2 to obtain an even greater fuel-mass in methane (CH4). Unfortunately, the SABATIER will produce *TWICE* as much Methane as you can burn with the Oxidizer you can obtain by electrolyzing the water it spits back out at you:

CO2 + 4 H2 --> CH4 + 2 H2O + energy [Note that in KSP-Interstellar, FractalUK has the Sabatier Process *INACCURATELY* consuming, rather than producing, energy]

2 H2O + energy --> 2 H2 + O2

CH4 + 2 O2 --> CO2 + 2 H2O + energy

In real-life, the Sabatier has mainly been proposed for use on Mars not independently, as FractalUK seems to think it would be used, but in combination with the Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction (a reaction I have been bugging FractalUK to include in KSP-Interstellar for some time now). The RWGS reaction is:

CO2 + H2 + energy --> CO + H2O

Real-life ISRU reactors would perform both reactions, in separate chambers. Their reactants are the same, so you will *ALWAYS* have both occurring to at least some very small extent, but one reaction is favored over the other by changing the temperature, pressure, and catalysts in the reaction chamber...

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. The excess LiquidMethane doesn't HAVE TO go to waste, though. You can still utilize it as a propellant in thermal rocket- which will happily operate on LiquidMethane, LiquidFuel, or even plain old LiquidWater... LiquidMethane will give you lower thrust but higher ISP than LiquidWater, but lower thrust AND ISP than LFO mix... (making it almost more worth your while to just electrolyze the LiquidWater and use it straight rather than going through the extra step of reacting the LiquidFuel with CO2- especially since FractalUK inaccurately makes the Sabatier Reaction consume electricity like an endothermic reaction, rather than making it the self-sustaining exothermic reaction it actually is in real-life...)

Edited February 28, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

By the way, I know I've went over and over this point with you guys, but:

SABATIER REACTION in real-life = EXOTHERMIC

SABATIER REACTION in KSP-Interstellar = ENDOTHERMIC (at least, by consuming electricity at a high rate, it behaves that way)

Rather than CONSUMING electricity at a high rate, like FractalUK currently has modeled the Sabatier Reaction, it should both consume and (potentially) produce electricity- much like the fusion reactors. Specifically, it should have a start-up energy, but produce a small supply of ThermalPower that can be utilized by a generator- or if not utilized turns into WasteHeat you need to dissipate instead...

For reference, and so you guys can understand what I'm getting at better COMBUSTION is another example of a rel-life Exothermic reaction, if that gives you an idea of the kind of reaction the Sabatier is. While the Sabatier Reaction doesn't proceed nearly as quickly as Combustion- and thus doesn't generate heat nearly as fast as a petrol generator, it still produces heat in basically the same sort of way as combustion- only instead of burning hydrocarbons with oxygen, you're "burning" hydrogen with CO2...

Regards,

Northstar

[Fractal_UK]

Northstar: you don't need to repeat the same exact comments every few pages, especially when I already explained all of this the first time.

[Northstar1989]

You guys might find this a simpler and more informative explanation of the "Stoichiometric Problem", by the way (quoted DIRECTLY from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction#Manufacturing_propellant_on_Mars)

The Sabatier reaction has been proposed as a key step in reducing the cost of manned exploration of Mars (Mars Direct) through In-Situ Resource Utilization. Hydrogen is combined with CO2 from the atmosphere, with methane then stored as fuel and the water side product electrolyzed yielding oxygen to be liquefied and stored as oxidizer and hydrogen to be recycled back into the reactor. The original hydrogen could be transported from Earth or separated from martian sources of water.[5]

The stoichiometric ratio of oxidizer and fuel is 2:1, for an oxygen:methane engine.

CH4 + 2 O2 → CO2 + 2 H2O

However, one pass through the Sabatier reactor produces a ratio of only 1:1. More oxygen may be produced by running the water gas shift reaction in reverse, effectively extracting oxygen from the atmosphere by reducing carbon dioxide to carbon monoxide.

Another option is to make more methane than needed and pyrolyze the excess of it into carbon and hydrogen (see above section) where the hydrogen is recycled back into the reactor to produce further methane and water. In an automated system, the carbon deposit may be removed by blasting with hot Martian CO2, oxidizing the carbon into carbon monoxide, which is vented.

A fourth solution to the stoichiometry problem would be to combine the Sabatier reaction with the reverse water gas-shift reaction in a single reactor as follows:

3 CO2 + 6 H2 → CH4 + 2 CO + 4 H2O

This reaction is slightly exothermic, and when the water is electrolyzed, an oxygen to methane ratio of 2:1 is obtained.

Regardless of which method of oxygen fixation is utilized, the overall process can be summarized by the following equation.

2 H2 + 3 CO2 → CH4 + 2 O2 + 2 CO

Regards,

Northstar

P.S.

@FractalUK: So, if you wanted, you could easily just make a "combined cycle" reaction for Sabatier and RWGS, if you didn't want to increase the total number of reactions...

Of course, this would prevent players from making use of certain strategies- such as utilizing the Sabatier alone to produce LiquidMethane for thermal rockets; or players utilizing just the Sabatier Reaction to produce LiquidMethane of Duna, and then hauling it to Ike orbit to combine with Oxidizer produced from electrolyzing regolith on Ike- for a degree of mass-leveraging in terms of building up fuel supplies in Ike orbit for interplanetary missions- as LiquidMethane burns in a higher ratio with Oxidizer than does LiquidFuel, yielding an effective 2:1 mass-leveraging on the Duna side when burning LiquidMethane with Oxidizer form Ike vs. when burning LiquidFuel with Oxidizer from Ike...

Edited February 28, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

@FractalUK

Last, but not least, what are the chances we could see a change to the fuel-rule used to determine where LiquidMethane is drawn from in a rocket?

I see no reason it should not follow the same rules as LiquidFuel (or even be auto-pumpable with stock fuel-lines). In its current form, it is almost impossible to make use of "drop tanks" of Methane when, say, ascending into Kerbin orbit with a Methane-Oxidizer engine; without heavy use of a mod like TAC Fuel Balancer (and carefully-arranged resource transfer rules in TAC...)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 28, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Fractal_UK]

Last, but not least, what are the chances we could see a change to the fuel-rule used to determine where LiquidMethane is drawn from in a rocket?

I see no reason it should not follow the same rules as LiquidFuel (or even be auto-pumpable with stock fuel-lines). In its current form, it is almost impossible to make use of "drop tanks" of Methane when, say, ascending into Kerbin orbit with a Methane-Oxidizer engine; without heavy use of a mod like TAC Fuel Balancer (and carefully-arranged resource transfer rules in TAC...)

I have no idea what you are talking about here, it already follows exactly the same rules as LiquidFuel. Drop tanks of Methane work perfectly.

[Papercut]

ok i have been beaten, the Antimatter Initiated Reactor is driving me bonkers. I am having a very hard time trying to get this thing to turn on. I have thrown power at it (2.5 fission and a 1.5 omega fusion), radial helium3 and antimatter tanks attached directly on the reactor, radiators are on. I transfer helium into reactor but still no go, all i get is the "resource deprived" message. Please Help, going insane!

sure could use some help on this one,...have combed through the thread and wiki to no avail...

update- fuel line added, reactor works, ugh

Edited March 1, 2014 by Papercut

[Northstar1989]

I have no idea what you are talking about here, it already follows exactly the same rules as LiquidFuel. Drop tanks of Methane work perfectly.

Huh, maybe in an earlier version of KSP-I it was different or something? Or I had a bad isntall? I know a long while back, I tried to use methane drop tanks, and found they didn't work. Upon investigating the configs at the time, it definitely said it followed the "All Vessel" distribution rule, or whatever it was called... (same as Monopropellant)

By the way, on the topic of In-Situ Resource Utilization, somebody posted an excellent flowchart back on page 704. It's a little more complex than what I was suggesting as a GUI for ISRU (only one reaction would appear to players at a time- based on what they selected on a scroll-down menu on the side of the screen), and could be made a little more compact, but is basically what I was suggesting...

If a simple GUI were implemented that prevented players from being overwhelmed, it wouldn't be that hard to implement the Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction (CO2 + H2 --> CO + H2O), Methane Pyrolysis (CH4 --> C + 2 H2), or the Haber-Bosch Process (N2 + 3 H2 → 2 NH3) utilizing existing resources, would it?

And, I've bugged quite a bit about making the Sabatier Reaction exothermic, like in real life. Couldn't we at least see the reduction of its electrical cost to almost nothing (to reflect that the reaction is actually self-sustaining and capable of *producing* electricity), if not an implementation of it generating ThermalPower in excess of its (reduced) electrical cost?

Regards,

Northstar

Edited February 28, 2014 by Northstar1989

[agentexeider]

@ Fractal_UK

Hey Fractal, do you think you could update the guides, because I don't think that I am collecting any science points to upgrade my craft, there is no indication or gauge like there used to be, so I don't know if the lab is actually producing anything. Also I don't see any upgrade button on any of the parts anymore, How do I know if I'm getting science at the lab, how do I get the science to my other ship to upgrade, and how to I upgrade if there is no button???

-Æ

[Fractal_UK]

Hey Fractal, do you think you could update the guides, because I don't think that I am collecting any science points to upgrade my craft, there is no indication or gauge like there used to be, so I don't know if the lab is actually producing anything. Also I don't see any upgrade button on any of the parts anymore, How do I know if I'm getting science at the lab, how do I get the science to my other ship to upgrade, and how to I upgrade if there is no button???

It's all integrated into the stock science system now. Upgrades, for the most part, will be done automatically when you buy new tech nodes, existing craft already in space are the only parts that need to be upgraded manually when you unlock new techs.

[merendel]

so I don't know if the lab is actually producing anything.

In addition to what fractal answered when you switch back to the craft with the working lab (or fly by physics range) you'll get a brief message alert informing you that X science has been added to the archives. thats one way to know its been working.

[Boamere]

Absolutely and completely not. Basic-level fusion is *WAY* better than basic-level fission.

Clearly you've been spoiled by playing with the upper-level reactors for too long.

Regards,

Northstar

hahaha ,yep!

Edit: also don't know what I'm doing wrong (maybe docking ports) but on the wiki it says there are 2 uses for the IR telescope 1. being deep field survey, it states the that "This mission is quite simple: just put the telescope in orbit"

Yet I put the telescope in orbit with a science lab+reactor and helium yet I cannot do anything, any reason why?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Boamere

[Drelam]

I got a question.

First let me say i really like the options and parts this mod gives us. But there is one thing that really annoys me. I have been looking for days now for a sollution but so far i found nothing.

Is there a way to deactivate the "interstellar thermal Mechanics helper" Window, by default?

I ask this because i do not want to use parts of this mod on every ship i build, so having to close that window everytime i switch to VAB or SPH really bugs me.

Maybe a Key that actually activates that window would be appreciated, instead of having to close it all the time i don't need it. Maybe that window could pop up only if a MOD related part gets attached to the ship (similar like Mechjeb Delta -V window, just a idea) .

Sorry if this has been asked before but i couldn't find anything regarding this issue.

[db48x]

I got a question.

First let me say i really like the options and parts this mod gives us. But there is one thing that really annoys me. I have been looking for days now for a sollution but so far i found nothing.

Is there a way to deactivate the "interstellar thermal Mechanics helper" Window, by default?

I ask this because i do not want to use parts of this mod on every ship i build, so having to close that window everytime i switch to VAB or SPH really bugs me.

Maybe a Key that actually activates that window would be appreciated, instead of having to close it all the time i don't need it. Maybe that window could pop up only if a MOD related part gets attached to the ship (similar like Mechjeb Delta -V window, just a idea) .

Sorry if this has been asked before but i couldn't find anything regarding this issue.

Naturally, this has been asked dozens if not hundreds of times already, probably once on every page of the thread. Fractal_UK has already said that he's going to integrate it with the toolbar mod, but that he didn't want to delay the last release just for that.

Remember that annoyance is a state of your mind, which you can change. I recommend substituting anticipation of future enhancements for it.

[db48x]

hahaha ,yep!

Edit: also don't know what I'm doing wrong (maybe docking ports) but on the wiki it says there are 2 uses for the IR telescope 1. being deep field survey, it states the that "This mission is quite simple: just put the telescope in orbit"

Yet I put the telescope in orbit with a science lab+reactor and helium yet I cannot do anything, any reason why?

http://i.imgur.com/pJfCgJh.png

That's a lot of helium. Did you right-click it?

[Viper5delta]

Is anyone else have a problem with installing the new version of interstellar? I tried replacing the warp plugin in my main game, but It always kept getting hung up on the augmented arcjet(everything up to that loaded fine). Finally I got fed up and tried a completly new, unmodded ksp with a new interstellar and it still got stuck up on the arcjet. The specific file is warpplugins/parts/engines/augmentedarcjet/part0/FNSmallerAugmentedArcjet

[Drelam]

Naturally, this has been asked dozens if not hundreds of times already, probably once on every page of the thread. Fractal_UK has already said that he's going to integrate it with the toolbar mod, but that he didn't want to delay the last release just for that.

Remember that annoyance is a state of your mind, which you can change. I recommend substituting anticipation of future enhancements for it.

Wow thats what i call a fast reply.

I was afraid i was the only one bugged by it. It's good to know that it gets some attention by the mods devs.

I'll try to follow your suggestion (always too impatient )