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[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

Fractal_UK

By Fractal_UK
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted
I had this question answered in part a few pages back.

What ways are there to increase the power % on nuclear reactors? Apparently this is done automatically as power needs increase, but what if you want to throttle the reactor up in order to burn a thermal rocket? I don't see any increase when I simply turn the engine on, it stays at it's default % and never increases.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Thermal-Rocket-Nozzle-and-Thermal-Turbojet

The ISP of a thermal rocket is dependent on the temperature of the reactor. The hotter the reactor, the higher the ISP becomes. The amount of thrust a reactor provides is depends on both the power of the reactor and the ISP. The higher the power, the more thrust it produces. The higher the ISP, the less thrust it produces. The exact relation is given by the equation P=1/2 * F * ISP * G0, where P is the power of the engine, F is the thrust it provides, ISP is it's ISP, and G0 is the force of gravity at Earth's or Kerbin's surface (9.81 m/s^2).
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Eeke

Eeke

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That's all well and good, and duly noted.

What I was wondering wasn't how the Thrust for a Thermal Rocket is determined, but how to increase the power of a reactor.

If I take a Fission reactor -> Thermal Rocket -> Burn suspended on the pad

I notice that the Power % of my reactor never increases. It simply stays at it's default minimum operating %. Yet if it did increase I would have more thrust from the thermal rocket. Supposedly the reactor increases power depending on the demand, yet apparently a thermal rocket does not constitute demand.

So I was wondering if there's something I'm missing, and if not how would I go about increasing the Power % of the reactor?

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

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Posted (edited)
That's all well and good, and duly noted.

What I was wondering wasn't how the Thrust for a Thermal Rocket is determined, but how to increase the power of a reactor.

If I take a Fission reactor -> Thermal Rocket -> Burn suspended on the pad

I notice that the Power % of my reactor never increases. It simply stays at it's default minimum operating %. Yet if it did increase I would have more thrust from the thermal rocket. Supposedly the reactor increases power depending on the demand, yet apparently a thermal rocket does not constitute demand.

So I was wondering if there's something I'm missing, and if not how would I go about increasing the Power % of the reactor?

Ah, yes, the power as it pertains to thermal nozzles refers to thermal power I believe, which is an attribute of reactor type, mode, and upgrade level, or the power converted by microwave thermal receivers.

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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OmegaCenti

OmegaCenti

Posted
Posted

ztoYsBA.jpg

The Transmitter is actually engaged in that picture

Trying to set up a solar power plant is turning out to be a nightmare of Catch-22's. My EC is being drained instantly when the transmitter is running and the solar panels are engaged(which makes no sense whatsoever) . so now in it's current configuration, I can't control anything because my RGU is locked in EC, but if I unlock it, INSTANT drain, and then I am left with a very large and expensive paperweight. More reasons to come when I am done being frustrated to the point of not being able to think clearly.

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OmegaCenti

OmegaCenti

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Maybe try deactivating the engine? A look at the power readout wouldn't hurt either.

Can't deactivate the engine because I can't unlock the power to the probe core. can't unlock the power to the probe core because the transmitter instantly drains all EC. Can't deactivate the Transmitter because I can't unlock the probe core. Catch-22

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merendel

merendel

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Posted
I had this question answered in part a few pages back.

What ways are there to increase the power % on nuclear reactors? Apparently this is done automatically as power needs increase, but what if you want to throttle the reactor up in order to burn a thermal rocket? I don't see any increase when I simply turn the engine on, it stays at it's default % and never increases.

The reactor should ramp up to full output if you turn on the thermal nozzle and throttle up. At max throttle it should be takeing every drop of TP the reactor can produce that isnt being consumed by generators and turning it into thrust.

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Tristavius

Tristavius

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I too have been playing with thermal rockets a lot more the last 24 hours. I must admit I didn't really understand the wiki the first few times I read it but it's starting to make sense now. If I'm right, then the following may be helpful....

ISP

1) The ISP seems to be set by the temperature of the attached reactor (not the thermal power or output or anything like that, just the core temperature). This is evident by it not changing based on reactor size and input power; a thermal rocket attached to a fission plant will have the same ISP regardless of if that fission plant is putting out 5mW or 9000mW. The hotter the reactor, the better the ISP.

2) In the case of thermal receivers (which of course are NOT a reactor but can still power a thermal rocket) it seems to set the ISP rather low, in fact it places it lower than an un-upgraded fission reactor at 866 ISP. This makes a thermal receiving rocket slightly more efficient than a NERVA powered one. I guess this is for balance reasons; you can have a very high ISP rocket but you have to haul around all the power plants and other gear or you can receive the power to keep everything nice and light but you have only about the efficiency of the stock interplanetary engine.

3) As well as being effected by the core temperature, ISP is also effected by atmospheric pressure... using in atmosphere will have a much lower ISP. A thermal receiver on baseline liquid fuel goes from a bit over 866 in vacuum to around 347 at the KSC. It does rise quite rapidly - just a couple of thousand meters and it's way up.

4) The thrust available is a combination of two factors, the thermal power available and the ISP. Basically the more thermal power just can pump into it, the more thrust you can achieve. This means ships receiving thermal power especially can have enormous power - though thrusting at above around 7000kn usually shatters the thermal receiver and breaks the craft. Fuels can also be used to increase the thrust - LFO by 3.7x! All fuels other than liquid have a lower ISP.

5) A high ISP actually lowers your thrust. With fission reactors this means the upgraded versions actually give a slightly lower thrust (all be it by a tiny number). For fusions the upgraded version will still be better; the loss from ISP doesn't get rid of the gains from the extra MW's. What does suffer are anti-matter reactors which loose a significant amount of power once upgraded. For a thermal receiver this ISP is so low anyway you get a LOT of power to thrust to play with.

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jinks

jinks

Posted
Posted

Hey folks.

I seem to have a problem with the ATTILA thruster.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

As you can see, despite a thrust of 178kn the craft doesn't move at all. If I replace the ATTILA with a plasma engine (56kn) it lifts of with no problem.

Did I do something wrong? Have I found a bug?

Also: In the VAB the stats display for ATTILA and plasma are exactly the same (as in the ATTILA displays the wrong ISP/thrust values).

KSPI Version is 0.10.3.

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merendel

merendel

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Posted (edited)
Hey folks.

I seem to have a problem with the ATTILA thruster.

http://imgur.com/a/OjE0f

As you can see, despite a thrust of 178kn the craft doesn't move at all. If I replace the ATTILA with a plasma engine (56kn) it lifts of with no problem.

Did I do something wrong? Have I found a bug?

Also: In the VAB the stats display for ATTILA and plasma are exactly the same (as in the ATTILA displays the wrong ISP/thrust values).

KSPI Version is 0.10.3.

weird. the VAB bug is a known issue. Effectivly just a copy/paste error for the VAB discription so dont worry about that. As to the actual failiur to launch issue you've got. I've got no idea why it would report thrust and give you nothing. Its almost like the nozzle is blocked somehow. Silly question but you didnt by chance manage to mount the thing upside down so its output is pointed up through the craft? I cant tell from the angle of the picture.

I've done similar test launches with attila's so I know they work. I just dont use them often as I tend to tailor my launches to work off plasma and be SSTO and want the better fuel economy after launch.

Also just for the sake of experimentation try sticking it on a standard fuel tank and see what happens. while it looks like you've got fuel flow you never know.

Edited by merendel
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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've been messing with it, it doesn't appear to be working. Messing with config files and looking at the code right now.

edit:

Config files aren't even in the repo. :(

edit:

Changed the model and node configuration to the 1.25 version, it's working now.

jXvdEld.png

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

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Posted (edited)

Here you go. It uses a rescaled version of the 1.25m ATTILA. I suspect that the .625 model is bugged. But I'm just learning how things work in ksp. So I don't really know for sure. I did play around with the nodes and scaling to no effect. Maybe a collision mesh problem?

Patch file for .625m ATTILA

d43xqeL.png

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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jinks

jinks

Posted
Posted
Here you go. It uses a rescaled version of the 1.25m ATTILA. I suspect that the .625 model is bugged. But I'm just learning how things work in ksp. So I don't really know for sure. I did play around with the nodes and scaling to no effect. Maybe a collision mesh problem?

I guess a collision mesh problem is the most likely culprit. I also don't get any exhaust, but I don't have the slightest idea how thrust transforms work in KSP. The .cfg only references fx for exhaust, so where does the game get the data to apply a thrust vector from?

That one works as expected. Thank you!

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Sovek

Sovek

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok, issue with the download here. The science defs are missing, hence no science from seismic probes or the magnetometer. Ummmm help?

EDIT: Ok, I think I found the problem, looks like "Resources" folder got into the "Parts" folder somehow, Looking to see if moving it to the root "WarpPlugin" fixes it.

EDIT: No, that has not fixed anything... I still dont have a button for the Magnetometer, and "Collect Seismic Data" still does nothing.

Edited by Sovek
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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ok, issue with the download here. The science defs are missing, hence no science from seismic probes or the magnetometer. Ummmm help?

EDIT: Ok, I think I found the problem, looks like "Resources" folder got into the "Parts" folder somehow, Looking to see if moving it to the root "WarpPlugin" fixes it.

EDIT: No, that has not fixed anything... I still dont have a button for the Magnetometer, and "Collect Seismic Data" still does nothing.

The siesmometer works a bit differently.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Double-C-Seismic-Accelerometer

If you want the stock science functionality of accelerometer back, go GameData\WarpPlugin\science.cfg and delete this:

!MODULE[ModuleScienceExperiment]

{

}

The magnetometer is missing a couple of lines in it's config.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Dual-Technique-Magnetometer

Add these lines under "rerunnable = True"

dataIsCollectable = True

collectActionName = Collect Data

interactionRange = 1.2

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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Sovek

Sovek

Posted
Posted
The siesmometer works a bit differently.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Double-C-Seismic-Accelerometer

The magnetometer is missing a couple of lines in it's config.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Dual-Technique-Magnetometer

Add these lines under "rerunnable = True"

dataIsCollectable = True

collectActionName = Collect Data

interactionRange = 1.2

And I know this, what I'm saying is I cannot get science from these two parts no matter how hard I try. The Seismometer refuses to do anything when I press "Collect Impact Data" even after crashing a TMI stage into the Mun and getting the message "Impact recorded, science report can now be accessed from one of your accelerometers deployed on this body". No window showing science, no ability to transmit data, zip.

And with the magnetomter, that doesnt even have a button giving me the option to log the data at all. All I get out of it are numbers.

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

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Are any other buttons showing on your ship, such control from here or toggle torque? Sometimes the UI bugs and won't show buttons. I find some combination of ship switching, switching to map view, warping or switching back to desktop works.

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Sovek

Sovek

Posted
Posted
Are any other buttons showing on your ship, such control from here or toggle torque? Sometimes the UI bugs and won't show buttons. I find some combination of ship switching, switching to map view, warping or switching back to desktop works.

yes, its there. there is just not any button to collect science. And using action groups doesnt work either.

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Atragon

Atragon

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Do you have the crowd-sourced science defs installed? If so, did you make a backup of the original science defs in the same folder? I did, and it caused the problem you describe with the magnetometer.

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Fractal_UK

Fractal_UK

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Do you have the crowd-sourced science defs installed? If so, did you make a backup of the original science defs in the same folder? I did, and it caused the problem you describe with the magnetometer.

I'm fairly certain it will be the same issue. Many people have had the same problem when using those alternative science definitions in the past.

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tychochallenge

tychochallenge

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Posted
How can i use the plasma trhuster? I never can use, only say (megajulies!!)

You need beamed power using a nuclear/fusion/antimatter reactor and electrical generator otherwise it wont work. If you are not using beamed power, you will get insanely low thrust, but an insanely high ISP

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