[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Deredere]

Maybe include a small thermocouple in the reactor assemblies themselves? Even 1% output absent a generator would be useful.

[ABZB]

I did actually think about moving it because I don't really understand the justification for such a late placement of the RTG in the tech tree. They were being regularly used back in the 60s and consequently seem like they should be an early-middle tech, I haven't done this because it opens a can of worms in that there are many ways that the game's tech tree isn't very sensible from a realism perspective and I don't really want to totally redesign it.

It is trivial for anyone who wants to to add a modulemanager config to move the rtg to an earlier node

[phoenix_ca]

Yes, but presumably it makes sense to get a bit more use out of the giant nuclear reactor you're using It's a perfectly logical niche that while not critical, is a nice touch.

I'm confused. If you have a giant nuclear reactor, presumably you need it there because you need large amounts of power. So you'll have a generator for it anyway. Which means you don't need a small radial generator because all you'll be doing is adding to your part count.

If you don't need large amounts of power, you could use a small reactor and generator, or beamed power. Or you'd be better off with the RTG or solar power if small amounts of EC is all you need.

I'm just not seeing the supposed niche you're trying to fill.

[db48x]

I'm confused. If you have a giant nuclear reactor, presumably you need it there because you need large amounts of power. So you'll have a generator for it anyway. Which means you don't need a small radial generator because all you'll be doing is adding to your part count.

If you don't need large amounts of power, you could use a small reactor and generator, or beamed power. Or you'd be better off with the RTG or solar power if small amounts of EC is all you need.

I'm just not seeing the supposed niche you're trying to fill.

Perhaps he wants the large reactor to use with a thermal nozzle, and wants a few kW of electricity to power the craft. Thermocouples are a perfectly logical way to go in this case. They've been brought up a couple of times in this thread, although Fractal_UK hasn't said either yes or no to them. He did point out that he has done some experiments in this direction; here's even some code left over that implements radioactive decay for RTGs: <https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/blob/master/FNPlugin/ModuleElementRadioactiveDecay.cs>.

[Guest]

I request update popup be REMOVED COMPLETELY it is pointless and destructive to the RPL tech tree....causing a good amount of confusion among users

[phoenix_ca]

Perhaps he wants the large reactor to use with a thermal nozzle, and wants a few kW of electricity to power the craft. Thermocouples are a perfectly logical way to go in this case. They've been brought up a couple of times in this thread, although Fractal_UK hasn't said either yes or no to them. He did point out that he has done some experiments in this direction; here's even some code left over that implements radioactive decay for RTGs: <https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/blob/master/FNPlugin/ModuleElementRadioactiveDecay.cs>.

Hrm. Still seems like something that'd be better served by an RTG, or some other part like a fuel cell from another mod. At least, if part count is something you care about...which it should be, unless you have a liquid-cooled extremely OC'd CPU...probably even then.

[Deredere]

I mostly care about aesthetics, to be honest. Generators don't always look good and sometimes add distressingly to the overall length of a craft or assembly.

Part count hasn't been a big deal since I threw in a newer gpu. I rarely find myself in situations with more than 300 parts present, and it handles that much just fine.

Also, very few stock parts and parts from other mods are prepared to handle KSPI's power output, so a few percentage points of the potential would serve well in many situations. I mean, if you think about it, that's basically all the smaller reactors are good for. Save the antimatter, they never develop sufficient power density to handle propulsion, and even the ISRU refineries are beyond the ken of the .6m reactors. But running a kethane refinery or life support machinery? That they do wonderfully.

[teepee2345]

In the next version, could you make it so that if you have 3 impact experiments running, it can detect where the impact happened?

[VaporTrail]

Personally, I think the RTG should be the middle step between the fixed solar cells, the smaller (6 panel) tracking arrays, and the gigantors.

RTGs are (I think, in game terms) meant to power small probes and rovers that aren't meant to carry large battery loads. Basically the RTG should replace a bunch of batteries and the solar cells required to recharge them, supplying constant energy instead of cycling a rechargeable battery (or fuel cell) up and down. A single RTG replaces approximately 6 static solar panels and 1000 battery capacity (one 1.5m battery, five .625m batteries, ten 100 charge radial packs, etc).

A combination micro-nuke + generator + radiator array (basically a high-power, re-fuelable, waste heat enabled RTG) in a single part might be a good, high-level tech, niche item.

[db48x]

In the next version, could you make it so that if you have 3 impact experiments running, it can detect where the impact happened?

I bet you'll have to supply more details. It only detects impacts from active craft, so you already know where the impact happened...

[DivisionByZero]

The impact code already detects where the impactor lands and uses it in calculating science values. It just doesn´t tell you where via some gui.

[Einarr]

Any chance someone can update the chart for the Thermal Rocket Nozzles on the Wiki to include data for the 2.5m and 3.75m fusion reactors? Currently, the only fusion reactors it provides data for are the Tier 2 fusion reactors (the 1.25m and 62.5cm reactors that are unlocked with the second fusion power tech). Might also be a good time to ensure that the data already present on the chart is still accurate...

[dlrk]

Is there a patch needed for this to work with RSS right? What results I be getting from nuclear reactors with thermal rocket nozzles?

[phoenix_ca]

Any chance someone can update the chart for the Thermal Rocket Nozzles on the Wiki to include data for the 2.5m and 3.75m fusion reactors? Currently, the only fusion reactors it provides data for are the Tier 2 fusion reactors (the 1.25m and 62.5cm reactors that are unlocked with the second fusion power tech). Might also be a good time to ensure that the data already present on the chart is still accurate...

I would...if I had any idea how those values were calculated. >.>

Unless they were done experimentally. That'd actually be quite easy to determine. Not with the same accuracy as pulling out the code and interpreting it would be, but close enough.

Edited May 2, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[teepee2345]

Like tirangulate its position, shown by a red sphere like the on for uranium, only red.

[Sauron]

I'm confused. If you have a giant nuclear reactor, presumably you need it there because you need large amounts of power. So you'll have a generator for it anyway. Which means you don't need a small radial generator because all you'll be doing is adding to your part count.

If you don't need large amounts of power, you could use a small reactor and generator, or beamed power. Or you'd be better off with the RTG or solar power if small amounts of EC is all you need.

I'm just not seeing the supposed niche you're trying to fill.

Thermal turbojet powered aircraft (as db48x has pointed out) would be the main goal. There's no room and no need for a giant brayton cycle generator for that sort of thing (and aircraft can't handle the extra weight and length). Also, powering kethane extractors, bases, life support, etc.

[undercoveryankee]

Like tirangulate its position, shown by a red sphere like the on for uranium, only red.

What would be the purpose for marking the location of the ship you were just controlling? Are you suggesting that the science yield for repeat impacts should scale with the geographical distribution of the impacts the way that multiple sensors scale with coverage?

Or are you planning to go look at the surviving debris and a marker would help to distinguish that impactor's debris from other debris?

[nli2work]

In stock, the part that Interstellar uses as a precooler is called "Radial engine body," and it's just an aesthetic variant on a structural fuselage. Interstellar renames it and adds a module that works with the changes to the engines. The ModuleManager config with the changes is in Interstellar's folder.

The 200km apoapsis on airbreathing engines was probably the bug in FAR 0.12.5.2 that made those engines overpowered at high airspeed. The precooler code has no effect on how an engine's thrust varies with speed or altitude; it only governs whether you get Interstellar-applied heating in addition to stock heating.

makes sense, I was looking at the config file in Squad folder, not Interstellar. the thrust still drops off drastically above 20km. biggest change is the engine won't start to overheat until much higher altitude with a precooler, which allows it to run pretty much up till 40km. and above 30km, just about any amount of thrust will push the apoapsis higher on a small single seater. Without precooler the engine starts to overheat around 17km.

[undercoveryankee]

Thermal turbojet powered aircraft (as db48x has pointed out) would be the main goal. There's no room and no need for a giant brayton cycle generator for that sort of thing (and aircraft can't handle the extra weight and length). Also, powering kethane extractors, bases, life support, etc.

A standalone RTG or fuel cell has the advantage that you can shut the big reactor down when you don't need it for propulsion. Good for saving nuclear fuel if the reactor's "idle" setting is more power than you'll ever need for anything else in your life.

If it's something like a fission-powered plane or LKO-to-Minmus shuttle that never gets enough time between burns to shut down, being able to mount a small thermoelectric generator radially to the reactor could end up being the smart and realistic look.

The current module for electrical generators in the Interstellar plugin searches the part's nodes for a connected reactor using similar code to what the precoolers use to search for intakes. We know that this code running on the parent part doesn't search radially attached children, but I'll need to test whether the module running on a radially attached child searches the parent.

If it works, I'll do some research into the performance of thermoelectric generators and publish a proof-of-concept part.

[Einarr]

Out of curiosity, is there any reason that thermal turbojets are inferior to stock jets or B9's SABREs (in jet mode)? I can't seem to keep mine running above ~14k on Kerbin using the same number of intakes I'd use on the stock jets or B9's SABREs. Also, do the thermal turbojets actually need precoolers as the other jet engines do?

Should be noted I'm powering them with upgraded fusion reactors, and am generally using the 2.5m ones paired with 2.5m reactors.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Einarr

[AndreyATGB]

Out of curiosity, is there any reason that thermal turbojets are inferior to stock jets or B9's SABREs (in jet mode)? I can't seem to keep mine running above ~14k on Kerbin using the same number of intakes I'd use on the stock jets or B9's SABREs. Also, do the thermal turbojets actually need precoolers as the other jet engines do?

Probably because thermal turbojets can run forever as long as you have power.

[Einarr]

Edited my previous post to give more info on power source.

[artforz]

The current module for electrical generators in the Interstellar plugin searches the part's nodes for a connected reactor using similar code to what the precoolers use to search for intakes. We know that this code running on the parent part doesn't search radially attached children, but I'll need to test whether the module running on a radially attached child searches the parent.

If it works, I'll do some research into the performance of thermoelectric generators and publish a proof-of-concept part.

Don't think it'll work, from what I can tell FNGenerator would have to check part.srfAttachNode

[TheGatesofLogic]

Is the radial antimatter collector from the hi-tech bits dev thread planned to be added? It would be an incredible addition. If it isn't i'll probably make it for myself if anyone wants it.

so is this a no? Nobody seems to have responded to my inquiry. I feel like the current antimatter collectors are awkward and chunky, and don't attach to things in a way that looks right... I would build the part myself, but the model isn't publicly available and i'm not incredibly familiar with unity.

[artforz]

Any chance someone can update the chart for the Thermal Rocket Nozzles on the Wiki to include data for the 2.5m and 3.75m fusion reactors? Currently, the only fusion reactors it provides data for are the Tier 2 fusion reactors (the 1.25m and 62.5cm reactors that are unlocked with the second fusion power tech). Might also be a good time to ensure that the data already present on the chart is still accurate...

Done.

Quite a few values changed slightly, thrust now takes into account that KSPi uses g0=9.82m/s instead of 9.81, reactor mass and TWR now include the reactors internal fuel.