[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Gaugeforever]

What do you mean by "efficient"?. For the thermal generators, the lower your radiator temperature, the more efficient the generator will be (heat engine efficiency gets better as the high temperature gets higher and the low temperature gets lower- the radiators are the low temperature, and the reactor temperature is the high temperature). Solar panels aren't thermal generators, though; they don't care how hot your radiators are. As long as your WasteHeat is below the 95% or so level at which you start to have problems, you're fine.

If the text on the Thermal Helper is green, that means that the heat generation on your vessel is less than the maximum heat that can be radiated from the radiators currently mounted on your ship, and thus you will never reach dangerous levels of overheating. For generators this will apply everywhere (their max power output is their max power output), for solar panels the heat (and power) they generate increases as you get closer to Kerbol- a ship with a single tiny radiator that would never overheat in Kerbin orbit might have problems if you put it on a sundiver trajectory. You can adjust the distance from Kerbol in the Thermal Helper to see if you've got enough radiators on your solar-powered ship; the default distance is Kerbin orbit.

If you're not diving down real close to Kerbol, a single tiny radial radiator is going to be enough for all but the most absurd arrays of solar panels (as you've noted, the maximum dissipation from that single radiator is enough for more than 900 EC/s worth of solar power). They just don't generate enough heat to really notice, because their power levels are so low compared to the thermal reactors. Fusion or antimatter reactors, now, those need lots of radiators, especially if you don't have the upgrade that lets you run said radiators at the higher maximum temperature.

Well i guess knowing that if the text is green it's ok will be enough. I can just add the smallest amount of cooling necessary. I would be neat to dig deeper into it sometime though.

[phoenix_ca]

Well i guess knowing that if the text is green it's ok will be enough. I can just add the smallest amount of cooling necessary. I would be neat to dig deeper into it sometime though.

That's pretty much all I do. If it's green, full power. Yellow, a little less than max is possible. Red is serious problem land. Way, way, way easier to remember and think about than doing the math yourself, which is...vaguely described at best in current documentation.

[bonesbro]

Well i guess knowing that if the text is green it's ok will be enough. I can just add the smallest amount of cooling necessary. I would be neat to dig deeper into it sometime though.

Yes, green means your ship will never overheat. The only other factor you need to consider is the generator efficiency number on the thermal helper. This only matters if you're using a nuclear reactor of some sort with a generator attached. If that's what you're using, then you should know that the generators are modeled after thermal generators in the real world, so their efficiency is related to the difference between the reactor's core temperature and the radiator's temperature. If your reactor's core is 1677K and your radiators are at 1600K then the difference is very small so your generator will produce very little power. You can increase their efficiency by adding more radiators... the extra radiators will dissipate more heat so they will not get as hot.

In practice this only really matters for unupgraded fission reactors. As soon as you start upgrading them the reactor temperature will be way hotter than your radiators so you'll always get decent efficiency.

You can ignore the generator thing if you're just using solar panels or the radiothermal generators thingy. 10 EC/s is 10 KW/s which is 0.01 MW. The tiniest "small radial radiator" will do 0.013MW each before they're upgraded. After upgrades they do something crazy like 2.1 MW.

[jinks]

People have been reporting NaN's for various resources in stock kspi. I don't not know the cause. Probably because I don't understand how OSR works.

There are some issues in the KSPI code that haven't been fixed yet, but getting NaN entries for resources on KSPI parts seems to happen on occasion. Your best bet is to work around the problem by editing the value in your persistence file.

Sorry you two, I left out one crucial bit of information it seems: I get NaN/0.0 for ECs (which is not ORS managed btw.) directly in the VAB for every Core I place, apparently it never even gets the correct value from the part. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that since the part is correct in the Debug Menu this is not a MM issue, right?)

Will do more debugging as soon as find time.

[phoenix_ca]

Sorry you two, I left out one crucial bit of information it seems: I get NaN/0.0 for ECs (which is not ORS managed btw.) directly in the VAB for every Core I place, apparently it never even gets the correct value from the part. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that since the part is correct in the Debug Menu this is not a MM issue, right?)

Will do more debugging as soon as find time.

WaveFunction's version adds 1000 ElectricalCharge resource to the computerCore part.cfg so I'm guessing that explains why I can't reproduce it in KSPI v0.11. It might be the NaN errors from other resources rearing its ugly head because it's a KSPI part, unless WaveFunction has fiddled with something that might explain the problem. I bring it up because the problems we've seen prior with NaN values didn't seem to stem from ORS, but from KSPI's code, as it was previously mentioned in the thread (as far as I'm aware anyway) as appearing in reactor fuel values. While those resources might be managed at least in terms of extraction by ORS, it's my understanding that only KSPI is managing the reactors. I certainly can't see anything that suggests otherwise from skimming part configs.

...still weird though. Can you replicate the problem with a clean install and only WaveFunction's experimental version? (There isn't anything in the changelog there that would suggest why this is happening though, other than the addition of that resource.)

Edited May 10, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[Aedile]

In other words, the refinery wants to draw nitrogen from the atmosphere at the time of use. Similar to how you have to be splashed to centrifuge deuterium; you don't have the option to put water in tanks, carry it somewhere more solid, and then centrifuge it.

If Fractal had added nitrogen as a storable resource, that would require new tanks, figuring out its performance as thermal-rocket or plasma propellant, and various other things that would make the update feel incomplete if they weren't done. Having the refinery access the atmosphere directly for now seems like as good a place to limit the scope of the last update as any.

It just appears as collectable resource on the atmoscoop, so I was wondering.

[DivisionByZero]

So, does anyone know what we're supposed to use the scoop for? Or how to use it?

[phoenix_ca]

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Atmospheric-Scoop

[Fox42]

Fractal has said that the next version of Interstellar will convert EC to Megajoules when the EC bar is full. (Scott Manley thought his solar power satellites should be able to power their own plasma thrusters. If Scott Manley wishes for something on air, it's probably worth doing.) Until then, I've wondered whether anything would break horribly if you configured a KethaneConverter to generate Megajoules.

Thanks for the answer, that sounds good.. I also overheard Scott Manley talking about that - And it makes sense.. Would be great to see that in the next version.

[jinks]

...still weird though. Can you replicate the problem with a clean install and only WaveFunction's experimental version? (There isn't anything in the changelog there that would suggest why this is happening though, other than the addition of that resource.)

Just replicated this with only KSPI on a clean install (I even left out ModuleManager, since it dosen't do anything with the core).

Pictures from the VAB:

I have no idea where to look any more. Is nobody else seeing this with WaveFunctionP's version?

[phoenix_ca]

I have no idea where to look any more. Is nobody else seeing this with WaveFunctionP's version?

Don't worry, you aren't crazy. I just reproduced it with WaveFunction's version.

Edit: Herp derp derp. I should've seen this earlier. >.< (This is what I get for only opening the file in Notepad and not Notepad++.) The problem is caused by extra m's. The computerCore config has the following section:

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	ammount = 1000
	maxAmmount = 1000
}

It should read:

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 1000
	maxAmount = 1000
}

The typo means the game knows to add ElectricCharge as a resource, but has no values for amount and maxAmount and so defaults maxAmount to 0 and amount to NaN (or it gets converted to NaN somehow; can't really tell). Kinda odd behaviour but there you go. Fix the typos in the part config and you're good to go.

Edited May 10, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[jinks]

The typo means the game knows to add ElectricCharge as a resource, but has no values for amount and maxAmount and so defaults maxAmount to 0 and amount to NaN (or it gets converted to NaN somehow; can't really tell). Kinda odd behaviour but there you go. Fix the typos in the part config and you're good to go.

ARGH! A simple typo! I checked the structure of the .cfg a dozen times, but I never bothered to actually read the words.

Thank you!

[Aedile]

LqdWater is flow mode STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH, and the only water tank in stock KSPi is a radial... put a fuel line going from the empty water tank to the stack the scoop is in and it should work.

As for the Nitrogen... no idea. Looks like KSPi doesn't turn it into a tank-able resource and the only place it's used is in a check in the Refinery for the Haber Process (only works if atmospheric density * atmospheric nitrogen abundance is >= 0.1). Odd.

Yes that's the issue. So either changing it or using the lines. BTW where are the interstellar resources defined?

[phoenix_ca]

Yes that's the issue. So either changing it or using the lines. BTW where are the interstellar resources defined?

/WarpPlugin/Parts/Resources/ResourcesNuclear.cfg

If you want to change it so it flows everywhere, I'd suggest using an MM config like so:

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LqdWater]:FINAL
{
    @flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
}

If using MM 2.x or later:

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LqdWater]:NEEDS[WarpPlugin]:FINAL
{
    @flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
}

That way you're future proof for KSPI updates. I honestly forget what it was like before MM. I guess I've repressed those memories.

Given that the only container is radial though, I'd be tempted to call this one a bug. Same goes for Ammonia.

Edited May 10, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[Angelo Kerman]

This is a great mod, I have just reached the fusion tech level. I do have a question though: I want to add a nuclear aerospike engine that keeps ISP steady from seal level to vacuum. It looks like the mod varies ISP depending upon reactor type, and the reactor ISP varies by atmospheric limit. You can see this in FNozzleController. My problem is that when I compile the code using Visual Studio 2010, I get a file not found error in KSP. I have not changed the access level on the class, and really just added logging to start off. Has anybody run into this problem? I will find the actual KSP log and post it.

also, if I just add a reference to WarpPlugin in a separate project, I do not see FNozzleController in the Object Browser. Oddly I do see AntimatterCollector and a few interface classes like FNThermalSource. Any idea why? I am a bit rusty of my C# skills but I expext that a public class should show up in the browser. And my own project's objects do.

Finally, what version of Visual Studio, if any, was the project made for? When I try to open the project in 2010, it says the project is corrupt and only OpenResourceSystem opens correctly. I got the project files from GitHub, btw.

Thanks for the help.

[Sokar408]

Just replicated this with only KSPI on a clean install (I even left out ModuleManager, since it dosen't do anything with the core).

Pictures from the VAB:

http://i.imgur.com/OGG12iD.png http://i.imgur.com/cmBY9sx.png

I have no idea where to look any more. Is nobody else seeing this with WaveFunctionP's version?

I have a similar problem with the reactors. Somehow some of my reactors suddenly have NaN/UF4 and NaN/Actinide. I don't know if this is related though.

[WaveFunctionP]

Don't worry, you aren't crazy. I just reproduced it with WaveFunction's version.

Edit: Herp derp derp. I should've seen this earlier. >.< (This is what I get for only opening the file in Notepad and not Notepad++.) The problem is caused by extra m's. The computerCore config has the following section:

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	ammount = 1000
	maxAmmount = 1000
}

It should read:

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 1000
	maxAmount = 1000
}

The typo means the game knows to add ElectricCharge as a resource, but has no values for amount and maxAmount and so defaults maxAmount to 0 and amount to NaN (or it gets converted to NaN somehow; can't really tell). Kinda odd behaviour but there you go. Fix the typos in the part config and you're good to go.

I blame Canada.

[WaveFunctionP]

This is a great mod, I have just reached the fusion tech level. I do have a question though: I want to add a nuclear aerospike engine that keeps ISP steady from seal level to vacuum. It looks like the mod varies ISP depending upon reactor type, and the reactor ISP varies by atmospheric limit. You can see this in FNozzleController. My problem is that when I compile the code using Visual Studio 2010, I get a file not found error in KSP. I have not changed the access level on the class, and really just added logging to start off. Has anybody run into this problem? I will find the actual KSP log and post it.

also, if I just add a reference to WarpPlugin in a separate project, I do not see FNozzleController in the Object Browser. Oddly I do see AntimatterCollector and a few interface classes like FNThermalSource. Any idea why? I am a bit rusty of my C# skills but I expext that a public class should show up in the browser. And my own project's objects do.

Finally, what version of Visual Studio, if any, was the project made for? When I try to open the project in 2010, it says the project is corrupt and only OpenResourceSystem opens correctly. I got the project files from GitHub, btw.

Thanks for the help.

Fractals repo is a mess. You'll need to start a new project and import the files into it because the project files are missing. As are most of the part configs.

[undercoveryankee]

He also said in a video that random component failures would be interesting, like engines flaming-out because of some simulated internal failure, or fuel pumps stopped working, or dishes not opening. Those are horrible ideas from a gameplay perspective, because all it would really do is make players hit "revert flight" more often.

Actually, I've been watching the development of those mods with interest. I think it's possible to design the list of possible failures and their circumstances so almost all failures are "interesting" – i.e. it's possible to salvage the mission or the crew with creativity and good design.

Random failures definitely need to be a mod and not part of the stock game, because if your first response to a failure is to hit "revert flight" there's no reason for the possibility to cross your radar. But some people like to play the kind of game that throws randomized challenges at you and you try to overcome them, and I don't see why it would be "bad gameplay" to implement that kind of system within the framework of KSP just because it produces a different style of game than stock KSP.

[undercoveryankee]

Just to make sure I have this correct. I have 4 1x6 solar panels which generate 2 EC/s each. That's 8 EC/s which is 4000 Watts Waste heat.

Now I look a small radial radiator. Its performance at 2400KM (I will be geo stationary), is .4703234MW, so we multiply this by a million and get 470,323.4 W of cooling off of one tiny little radiator. Is this correct? So basically one small radiator will be all I will need for some time to come.

That looks right. One small radiator (or two if your center of mass so requires) will be enough for just about anything that runs reasonable numbers of solar panels at reasonable distances from the sun.

[Angelo Kerman]

Fractals repo is a mess. You'll need to start a new project and import the files into it because the project files are missing. As are most of the part configs.

Ok, is there a version up on github or elsewher that accurately reproduces the WarpPlugin? I created my own project and added the proper references and class files, but ran into the problem with the Object Browser not showing the classes. Thx for letting me know.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Angel-125

[pantheis]

Poor Jeb...

Had to do some testing in a Sandbox save to ensure that my warp trails are no longer black (they aren't anymore!).

What exactly did you have to do to resolve this? I have it and have not been able to figure out how to fix it.

[WaveFunctionP]

Ok, is there a version up on github or elsewher that accurately reproduces the WarpPlugin? Thx for letting me know.

Mine should work out of the box, but it includes my personal changes. Which are documented in the changelog. Obviously, you may need to update references.

Edited May 10, 2014 by WaveFunctionP

[philotical]

What exactly did you have to do to resolve this? I have it and have not been able to figure out how to fix it.

https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Know-Issues-and-Work-Arounds

[Angelo Kerman]

Mine should work out of the box, but it includes my personal changes. Which are documented in the changelog. Obviously, you may need to update references.

Thank you for providing the link, though I must be dense. Are the source files in your version?

When I created my project, I added references to Assembly-CSharp, Assembly-CSharp-firstpass, OpenResourceSystem_1_1_0, and UnityEngine. I can compile just fine but I get the following errors:

[ERR 13:28:48.140] AssemblyLoader: Exception loading 'WarpPlugin': System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException: The classes in the module cannot be loaded.

at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.Assembly:GetTypes (bool)

at System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadAssemblies () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Additional information about this exception:

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'FNPlugin.FNNozzleController' from assembly 'WarpPlugin, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'FNPlugin.FNModulePreecooler' from assembly 'WarpPlugin, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'FNPlugin.PluginHelper' from assembly 'WarpPlugin, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'FNPlugin.FNNozzleControllerFX' from assembly 'WarpPlugin, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'FNPlugin.ModuleSabreHeating' from assembly 'WarpPlugin, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.