[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Tyren]

If These beautiful models are implemented, ill give it a try...dont care whos models, i like all (except the stock thingies ).

All These mods, with additional/refined ressources and alternatives spread the game experience more and more. I appreciate that and Keep the work on it, good Job so far

[Seeker89]

I would love for this to be a wiki. I have been following this from the first post and I love it, but at time it can be hard to process the information in game. As you also have a whole system on how things work and rules set up, it would be nice. And a logic map, with pictures....

[pina_coladas]

multiple resources for thermal engine stuff

Have you guys checked out the modular fuel tanks/fuels thread? They're theorizing and tinkering away with multiple fuel and propellant types and trying to balance realism and playability with fuel tank mass ratios, resource densities and such things. I'd suggest you go there and join the discussion. If that's the direction you want to go with this mod (a wide variety of propellants) it would be good to tie into that mod and not duplicate things. Also, they've sort of decided that LiquidFuel should be RP-1 and not H2, which makes way more sense to me (so no electrolyzing water into "LiquidFuel + Oxidizer").

Edit: This is the thread I mean http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31706-0-20-Modular-Fuel-System-1-3-realistic-fuels-reconfigurable-fuel-tanks-and-engines

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

Impressive. Only needs more custom models.

But even so... Woah.

[CalculusWarrior]

Some days ago I looked around for something usefull I can to make and pick some parts for this mod. But I was without any internet connection last days so didn't knew there already some attempts and even with same parts so it can to be more interfering then helpfull. But anyway. For a variety, just some " into the public domain" things. I tried keep things simple and not overdetail to be less out of place but I'm not very good in it.

First thing I pick was "warp drive" because it has some recognizable shape and I don't know how can look all this geeky reactors and turbines and what key difference must to be in their apperiance.

<clip>

"Cap" at front was something last minute nonsensical and I was greedy for UV space for it but you rarely see it anyway

And second was collector, because it simple. I don't know how antimatter can be collected so I used shape author of plugin is chose for it as reference.

<clip>

There the link

http://www./?707xjytp889cbcr

I also modeled something sci-lab when my internet connection was back. Maybe will finish it in the near future.

You sir, have fantastic modelling skills! I hope the mod author puts these in straight away!

[SpaceK531]

-snip-

the parts look very nice, but it reminds me too much of B9 aerospace.

[Fractal_UK]

Some days ago I looked around for something usefull I can to make and pick some parts for this mod. But I was without any internet connection last days so didn't knew there already some attempts and even with same parts so it can to be more interfering then helpfull. But anyway. For a variety, just some " into the public domain" things. I tried keep things simple and not overdetail to be less out of place but I'm not very good in it.

First thing I pick was "warp drive" because it has some recognizable shape and I don't know how can look all this geeky reactors and turbines and what key difference must to be in their apperiance.

"Cap" at front was something last minute nonsensical and I was greedy for UV space for it but you rarely see it anyway

And second was collector, because it simple. I don't know how antimatter can be collected so I used shape author of plugin is chose for it as reference.

There the link

http://www./?707xjytp889cbcr

I also modeled something sci-lab when my internet connection was back. Maybe will finish it in the near future.

Yes, these models are indeed excellent, thanks very much for making them zzz. I have indeed them to my latest development version and they will feature in the next update. I am trying to add some kind of visual effects to the warp drive to complement the models but that area is relatively new to me. Still, I think I'm getting somewhere slowly.

In my research I discovered that thermal engines can harness any propellant but each propellant has a different thrust and specific impulse. So you are overlooking some vast resources... On kerbin for example you have ~ 78% nitrogen, this can be used as a propellant in a thermal engine. On duna you have ~ 95% carbon dioxide, this can be used as well, eve's atmosphere is 98% carbon dioxide, and so on. Liquid hydrogen is actually one of the worst propellants to use in terms of thrust, but has the highest specific impulse. In my models I was using plain h2o which has excellent thrust and relatively high specific impulse, at least when compared with traditional chemical rocket engines.

My suggestion is that you should include more of these resources and alter the function to support their use. So for example you can power a thermal engine using electricity + h2, co2, h2o, N, o2, etc - no nuclear heat is necessary assuming you have enough power to drive the internal microwave magnetrons which act as the heating element in the supercritical compression (heating) chamber of the engine. The more energy available, the more DV you can get out of a given amount of propellant, up to the design limitations of the compression chamber of course.

Have you guys checked out the modular fuel tanks/fuels thread? They're theorizing and tinkering away with multiple fuel and propellant types and trying to balance realism and playability with fuel tank mass ratios, resource densities and such things. I'd suggest you go there and join the discussion. If that's the direction you want to go with this mod (a wide variety of propellants) it would be good to tie into that mod and not duplicate things. Also, they've sort of decided that LiquidFuel should be RP-1 and not H2, which makes way more sense to me (so no electrolyzing water into "LiquidFuel + Oxidizer").

Edit: This is the thread I mean http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31706-0-20-Modular-Fuel-System-1-3-realistic-fuels-reconfigurable-fuel-tanks-and-engines

I'll respond to these two points together. First of all, I really like the modular fuel systems mod, it adds a lot of realism to the game in terms of configurable propellants in your fuel tanks. LiquidFuel being Kerosene/RP-1 also makes a lot more sense given the specific impulse values found in the game (except for the LV-N anyway). That said, I don't want to duplicate the work found in that mod, there is no point but nor can I assume that everyone who plays this mod will also have that mod, adding dependencies to other mods is generally a bad idea. It would be ideal if I could find some way of making my mod make different assumptions about fuels depending on whether that mod is installed or not, but it does seem like a lot of effort for probably a very small subset of players.

Such as it is, I have to make assumptions that are actually useful primarily to the players of this mod. Adding more fuels, e.g. Nitrogen or Water might be appealing from a realism standpoint but from a playability standpoint it would mean I'd have to add a whole bunch of fuel tanks of different sizes for Nitrogen resources and indeed any other resource that I chose to add. I've already added a couple of liquid fuel tanks for playability purposes, I don't really want to go adding hundreds of different types of fuel tanks to cover every possibility or people will get quickly fed up when they accidently add the wrong fuel tank.

I'm very much open to suggestions on how to resolve this.

I found this article while browsing today:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/green-energy/4243793

It's basically solar technology that uses the difference between hot and cold to generate electricity at a large efficiency. The technology sounds plausible in the scope of your mod, perhaps trade oxidizer for extra electricity while the object is facing the sun (similar in function to a solar panel)

That's the energy converter than the upgraded electrical generator is based on, it doesn't have to be solar powered, it's just another form of (particularly efficient) heat engine.

[pina_coladas]

I don't really want to go adding hundreds of different types of fuel tanks to cover every possibility or people will get quickly fed up when they accidently add the wrong fuel tank.

I'm very much open to suggestions on how to resolve this.

TBH the only solution I can see is procedural fuel tanks, which is a mod/feature that doesn't really exist yet... So maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

[DaveStrider]

I was building a plane for my eve colony earlier using the jet engines in this mod. I forgot to add the reactors, but the engines worked anyway? they actually worked incredibly well (200 KN thrust) and the only fuel they consumed was the air from the atmo intakes. I assume this is a bug since they need the reactors according to the description.

[Conti]

How about creating a generic "Thermal Propellant" tank and allowing the resources on it to be switched similarly to the way we can select fuel source for the thermal engines. For realism we could require that any existing propellant that is in the tank which is not the same as the propellant we are switching to would have to be 'vented'. Thus, only one propellant at a time could be in the tank, of course we could use multiple tanks and transfer existing resources to a separate tank for later use while collecting a new resource in the other tank. Venting tanks would be nice in general so that we could control the mass of the vessel in case of accidental over filling.

Volume/Mass would be calculated by density, LH2 for example has a density of 70.85 kg/m3, LH2O is 1000 kg/m3, LCO2 is 770 kg/m3, LOX is 1141kg/m3, etc.

Instead of adding 500 fuels, I would suggest only focus on the abundant ones I listed previously, LH2, LN2, CO2, H2O, O2, and perhaps as was mentioned above JP1 or even Kethane (if we can detect the mod and make it conditional to Kethane mod being active).

Also I believe you should include the option of using beamed microwave energy as a heat source rather than the requirement of reactor attachment. Perhaps with a part which contains microwave magnetrons that convert electrical energy into heat (the reverse of how your existing megajoules generators function).

I have something else in mind that I may work on if I have the time, which I would like to add to this mod if you are interested in/open to the idea of turning this into more of a group effort. Would you be willing to post the full source on github so we can link in and all work on it together? I know the source is already available but github is just a really great way of managing a group project. Would also be a good way to contribute as a group to the creation of a wiki

[Scotius]

Guys, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Sure, realism is good. But too much realism in the game turns fun into tedium. And adds more things that can go wrong during flight. IMO We really don't need more types of fuel. If we'd want to differentiate thrust or Isp of our ships, why not use different engines? Or one engine able to work in couple of modes - like VASIMR can.

[Conti]

Guys, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Sure, realism is good. But too much realism in the game turns fun into tedium. And adds more things that can go wrong during flight. IMO We really don't need more types of fuel. If we'd want to differentiate thrust or Isp of our ships, why not use different engines? Or one engine able to work in couple of modes - like VASIMR can.

I disagree. More fuels = more sources of fuel = more flexibility in mission capabilities. Having one propellant tank capable of using multiple propellant types = simpler, lighter and structurally more sound than carrying separate tanks for separate resources. Landing on eve and then returning to orbit for example would be a whole lot easier if we could refuel with the abundant atmospheric CO2 or whatever the substance is in the oceans of eve. We can do it in a way that is both 'simple enough to enjoy' and just realistic enough to not come across as a 'cheat'.

PS: The thermal engine already functions in multiple modes, we can simply extend that with a few more options for greater flexibility.

[Darndello]

Sure, thanks.

[Fractal_UK]

So, with the new warp drive models, I've decided to go back and see if I could add some animated effects to complement the warping. I'm clearly not the world's greatest at 3d graphics but I'm reasonably happy with the initial results. My efforts for animation are based on the effects found in the original 6 Star Trek films since more realistic animation is beyond me for now. I've also added a simple pulsating sound effect while the warp drive is active (but obviously you won't hear that in the pictures).

One thing that might be possible within a more realistic realm is altering the skybox so that you only see a starfield at the front of the ship (if you're travelling faster than light, you'll never see anything behind you). If anyone has ideas on how that might be achieved, I'd be interested to hear it.

Anyway, to the pictures! I don't know if you can see from the subtlety different hues but the lighting isn't static, the colouration pulsates with a rate dependent upon the light speed factor you are using.

I was building a plane for my eve colony earlier using the jet engines in this mod. I forgot to add the reactors, but the engines worked anyway? they actually worked incredibly well (200 KN thrust) and the only fuel they consumed was the air from the atmo intakes. I assume this is a bug since they need the reactors according to the description.

Cheers for the report, it seems one of my recent bugfixes killed my code that prevented the engines from working without thermal power. It'll be fixed in the next update.

[Scotius]

Cool. Now the engine really looks like it's doing at least warp 5 Though it makes me wonder if it would be possible to add some fading with distance particle effects behind the ship.

[Jason_25]

Cheers for the report, it seems one of my recent bugfixes killed my code that prevented the engines from working without thermal power. It'll be fixed in the next update.

It's great to see what you have done with the new warp effects so far.

It's a little disappointing about the engine change though. In my experience, while a disconnected thermal engine will work, it has limited isp and thrust compared to a connected one, and it still does consume fuel. I have used this combined with the relatively small size of the engine to build a futuristic vtol shuttlecraft with thermal engines with a truly sci-fi level of dv once you make the switch to the connected thermal engine. Work on larger ships based on this is coming along too.

I'm wondering what are you using to 'target' other worlds. I keep warping the opposite way of the way I'm pointing

I am having this problem too. Do the warp engines aka "field inducers" need to be pointed in line with the nose of the ship? I tried to warp toward Moho and while the navball read correctly and the ship pointed toward Moho the whole time it instead warped "above" the plane of the planetary orbits. The ship I am using weighs about 400 tons and has several warp units pointed in several directions. When I warp I just click on one and adjust speed and then activate. I am going to build another warp ship soon and test another I have already built to see if they show the same problem.

[SpaceK531]

If you're going faster than the speed of light, things behind you should appear to be going backwards in time iirc.

[sal_vager]

If you're going faster than the speed of light, things behind you should appear to be going backwards in time iirc.

Hmm, but the light, being slower than you, would never reach you.

You would see only the photons you collided with, making the space before you insanely bright, with all other directions being nothing but absolute darkness.

[Fractal_UK]

If you're going faster than the speed of light, things behind you should appear to be going backwards in time iirc.

I see what you're thinking here, if you're moving away from a static object then you will overtake the light being emitted from it increasingly further back in time BUT in order to actually observe those photons the front of your ship will have already either reflected or absorbed them before you can actually observe them at the rear. I think that the geometry of the spacetime metric prevents you from observing those photons, they get trapped in the front of the warp bubble until you deactivate the drive, at which point they zoom away again at the speed of light.

There is another complication though, doppler shift. Any light from the front region of the ship is blue shifted out of the visible range, though it may be possible to observe microwave or radio waves that have been blue shifted into the visible spectrum, possibly including the cosmic microwave background.

Jason_25: I'll have to investigate this in detail but certainly the new visual effects are going to be dependent upon the warp drive being properly aligned with the ship's "up" axis, so its probably a good idea to build ships in that way.

[Conti]

Hmm, but the light, being slower than you, would never reach you.

You would see only the photons you collided with, making the space before you insanely bright, with all other directions being nothing but absolute darkness.

You may be moving faster than the photons travel but you would still be catching up with the photons from the 'past'. Also consider that an Alcubierre drive (if possible) would not actually 'accelerate' local space, but rather compress and expand spacetime around you. It may even be possible that you would be isolated from spacetime inside of the warp bubble and everything would go dark in all directions the instant the warp bubble was created, that no photons could reach you at all...

We know there is a redshift/blueshift effect at far less than relativistic speeds so I suspect that if you could 'see' out of the warp bubble you would see a blueshift, or even ultraviolet in the front, a redshift or even infrared in the back and streaks of white around the sides. Of course this would be if your warp factor was sublight, 0.2c for example. I suspect once you approach relativistic speeds or actually break the lightspeed barrier that the light would shift out of the visible spectrum in both directions and you may or may not be left with just streaks of blue/white/red around the sides...

[sal_vager]

You'd hit so many, it'd be bright

[Conti]

You'd hit so many, it'd be bright

That might be true if you are assuming that photons are behaving as particles rather than waves when they collide with a warp field... We could probably sit down and work out the math on this to determine approximate wavelength at a given velocity.

[Conti]

Oh look, some university students already did the math for us. All normal light would dissapear but the CBR would appear as a bright white disk:

http://www.gizmag.com/hyperspace-travel-look-like/25794/

Of course I am sure that would shift out of the visible spectrum again the faster you travel and this is based on traveling through space rather than moving spacetime around your local space.

[Fractal_UK]

Oh look, some university students already did the math for us. All normal light would dissapear but the CBR would appear as a bright white disk:

http://www.gizmag.com/hyperspace-travel-look-like/25794/

Of course I am sure that would shift out of the visible spectrum again the faster you travel and this is based on traveling through space rather than moving spacetime around your local space.

Yeah, the cosmic microwave background isn't a single peak at a particular frequency though, it follows a black body spectrum, in fact it is the most perfect black body spectrum that has been observed, for that reason the velocity range over which it should be observable should be relatively large.

[nhnifong]

I know this is not supposed to be compatible with 0.20.2 but I thought I'd submit a few bugs anyways.

The timewarp triangles in the upper left corner are made invisible.

The science lab and most of the other parts fall through the pad.

going EVA causes a NaN blacked out navball and corrupts your save.