Clampotron Sr. Docking Port PSA

[Awass]

Bottom line is: I sent up a space station core with a Clampotron Sr. Docking Port on the bottom, however, I neglected to rotate it 180 degrees so that the docking side pointed out. This is a very easy mistake yo make because unlike it's junior counterpart, it is just a disk with no obvious indication of which side is the docking side. Unfortunately, I did not realize this until I tried to dock with it (using another backwards Sr. Docking port). So everyone, make sure your Sr. Docking ports are aligned correctly. Don't make the same mistakes I made

This has been a public service announcements on the correct usage of Clampotron Sr. Docking ports. Hope it helps.

[Kerbin-JP]

Haha. This has happened to me a few times. I've even forgotten the docking port all together. Once I spent like 1 hour trying to get a stupid nuclear stage into orbit, just to discover that there was nothing to dock with my crew module.

[RocketPilot573]

I have yet to actually do this, however when the Sr. was first came out it was rather confusing. Even now I must spend like five minutes making sure they're facing the right way. There really needs to be some sort of indication as to which side is which.

[stardust0123]

I have noted this for when I actually use the Sr. Ports. Thanks for the heads up!

[Necandi Brasil]

Yep... this is actually a problem I faced before..

[annallia]

I had the same problem with my station... Not sure how I screwed that up I swear I inverted them! Either way, there was a time where there were two of these ports floating in space along side my station... Fortunately I had the regular clampotrons underneath them (It was a aesthetic thing) so I am still able to use the ports, just have to slightly redesign my tankers...

[Awass]

I had some junior docking clamps too, but still, I can't really do anything with one side of my space station now. I learned the hard way.

[DisarmingBaton5]

This is why I do not use Sr ports. Standard only in the Disarming Baton Space Agency!

[Sethnizzle]

I have yet to actually do this, however when the Sr. was first came out it was rather confusing. Even now I must spend like five minutes making sure they're facing the right way. There really needs to be some sort of indication as to which side is which.

There is though, the texture is different on each side...

[Tiron]

There is though, the texture is different on each side...

Yeah but then you have to look at the 'port' side of it. What if you've got it in the middle of a stack? What they're saying is it needs like, arrows on the side or something.

[Sethnizzle]

Yeah but then you have to look at the 'port' side of it. What if you've got it in the middle of a stack? What they're saying is it needs like, arrows on the side or something.

Unless you are able to construct ships with docking ports already placed in between two parts, you look at it as you're building. Sure an arrow wouldn't hurt but this really is a non issue. You might make this mistake once, but you'll never make it again.

[Tiron]

Unless you are able to construct ships with docking ports already placed in between two parts, you look at it as you're building. Sure an arrow wouldn't hurt but this really is a non issue. You might make this mistake once, but you'll never make it again.

You can, in fact, construct ships with docking ports placed between two parts. If you look, they have TWO attachment node balls, one on either side (which is why it's easy to place them backwards), just so you CAN attach things to them in the VAB/SPH. The right click menu even gains a 'decouple' option if they're attached to something that isn't another docking port.

On my old station lifters I used to use a docking port in lieu of a decoupler, to save weight. They have serious problems when used this way though, clipping through whatever they're attached to while you're under power. Which you can fix with a few struts. They also don't have any decouple force, and can't be decoupled by staging, so there's some pretty serious limitations even without the clipping problem. This does have its uses, however.

Actually, one of the best uses for docking ports in the VAB is multidocking: You can only connect one port (the 'primary') in the VAB, but if you leave the secondaries lined up and facing each other, they'll automatically multidock when you load in on the pad. This is the only way to build 'circular' structures in the VAB.

[Johnno]

This is a non-issue. No matter safeguards people make mistakes. Even with arrows on decouplers people (myself included) manage to put them on the wrong way. I've yet to however put a docking port the wrong way because they're easily visually distinguishable. As Sethnizzle points out you'll see it during building, and Tiron what Sethnizzle was pointing out (correctly) is that you place pieces one by one thus you should be able to tell while placing the docking ports, you don't magically create a ship with docking ports already incorporated without having to be placed.

Only way to avoid discovering mistakes during flight is to test, test again and re-test everything on the ground until it works.

[Tiron]

This is a non-issue. No matter safeguards people make mistakes. Even with arrows on decouplers people (myself included) manage to put them on the wrong way. I've yet to however put a docking port the wrong way because they're easily visually distinguishable. As Sethnizzle points out you'll see it during building, and Tiron what Sethnizzle was pointing out (correctly) is that you place pieces one by one thus you should be able to tell while placing the docking ports, you don't magically create a ship with docking ports already incorporated without having to be placed.

Only way to avoid discovering mistakes during flight is to test, test again and re-test everything on the ground until it works.

Yeah but most people don't place a part, then stop to look at it. They grab the next part and place it. If you do that and end up pretty far along before it occurs to you to check it, you end up having to partially disassemble your rocket to check it. Unless the undo function actually decides to reconnect everything properly, which is very much of a crapshoot ('going back two steps instead of one' aside, which you can work around, I've had trouble lately with it not reconnecting struts), you could end up having to do a LOT of work to reconnect everything.

Arrow on the side means you can check it without disassembling anything. Doesn't really help if it turns out to be wrong, but it means you don't have to risk undoing half your assembly just to look at the port.

[sojourner]

You can, in fact, construct ships with docking ports placed between two parts. If you look, they have TWO attachment node balls, one on either side (which is why it's easy to place them backwards), just so you CAN attach things to them in the VAB/SPH. The right click menu even gains a 'decouple' option if they're attached to something that isn't another docking port.

You're missing the point. Due to the tree structure of building in KSP, at some point you had to place the docking port and then something on top of it. You can't avoid having the opportunity to examine it when you place it.

[Tiron]

You're missing the point. Due to the tree structure of building in KSP, at some point you had to place the docking port and then something on top of it. You can't avoid having the opportunity to examine it when you place it.

Actually, the point is, most people don't examine parts after they place them. Having the opportunity to do so is irrelevant, especially since it's frankly, a needless bit of extra time and work in the middle of building stuff. Given the way the camera works in the VAB, actually looking at the port might not be the easiest thing to do: If it's very high up in the VAB, or very low, the camera rotation limits are going to get in your way.

The sides of it are easy to see.

But seriously, why are you arguing about this? It's a 5 second texture change I could do myself if I wanted to.

Edit: As soon as I find the textures but...

Well I got looking at it, and I just noticed, there IS a very slight shaping difference. It in fact does still have the 'lip' that the two smaller ports have, it's just...really tiny. You CAN use it to tell if a port's connected the right way or not from the side though, if you look closely enough.

Edit2: I'll also just add that there IS a mod around here called 'subassembly loader' that allows you load and attach an entire preassembled section. That same functionality is also on Squad's 'Planned Features' list, if you hadn't noticed...

Edited August 5, 2013 by Tiron

[Cashen]

Actually, the point is, most people don't examine parts after they place them.

I stopped reading right there.

Squad cannot be held accountable for people's lack of patience and unwillingness to check their work.

I used the large docking ports today for the first time. I recall clearly double-checking when placing them to make sure they were right-side-out. It's not that hard, honestly. I don't mean to offend.

[King Arthur]

The "port" side of the docking port has a protruding rim that comprises the actual docking port, it's not hard to differentiate the two sides.

Failing that, you have the port on backwards if you have a yellow arrow in the center of your senior docking port.

[Tiron]

I stopped reading right there.

Squad cannot be held accountable for people's lack of patience and unwillingness to check their work.

I used the large docking ports today for the first time. I recall clearly double-checking when placing them to make sure they were right-side-out. It's not that hard, honestly. I don't mean to offend.

Well I can't be held accountable for your missing all the important bits, some of which supported your own position, because you stopped reading.

[annallia]

I stopped reading right there.

Squad cannot be held accountable for people's lack of patience and unwillingness to check their work.

I used the large docking ports today for the first time. I recall clearly double-checking when placing them to make sure they were right-side-out. It's not that hard, honestly. I don't mean to offend.

And yet my peanutbutter has the need to inform me that it may contain nuts (I do find the wording disturbing... just the "may" part).

Back to KSP... There are other modules that have little arrows on them despite not being exactly the same on either side... decouplers/separators come to mind. I see no reason to raise a big hooplah over the idea of adding an arrow to a docking port to tell you which side is in/out.

Now I agree with you that people should check their work rather than just throwing it together and seeing if it flys but even people who routinely check their work can get it wrong if it is a large build with multiple ports or they have a bad camera angle due to the limitations of the VAB camera.

Hell on my newest station I made this very mistake (though only on one of the two sr ports I put in) I had checked, double checked, and could of sworn they were on right, but one of them somehow wound up upside down.

Point is it will happen to anyone simply because the difference between the two sides is so small it is not really obvious, adding a little arrow pointing in would greatly reduce that from happening.

[Tiron]

And yet my peanutbutter has the need to inform me that it may contain nuts (I do find the wording disturbing... just the "may" part).

Back to KSP... There are other modules that have little arrows on them despite not being exactly the same on either side... decouplers/separators come to mind. I see no reason to raise a big hooplah over the idea of adding an arrow to a docking port to tell you which side is in/out.

Now I agree with you that people should check their work rather than just throwing it together and seeing if it flys but even people who routinely check their work can get it wrong if it is a large build with multiple ports or they have a bad camera angle due to the limitations of the VAB camera.

Hell on my newest station I made this very mistake (though only on one of the two sr ports I put in) I had checked, double checked, and could of sworn they were on right, but one of them somehow wound up upside down.

Point is it will happen to anyone simply because the difference between the two sides is so small it is not really obvious, adding a little arrow pointing in would greatly reduce that from happening.

That's pretty much my point. Given that it's an easy fix (Copypasta the arrow from the size 1 decoupler, maybe put one on either side of the 'handles'), there's not really any reason NOT to do it. You'd still have to check the orientation to not screw it up, it'd just be easier to check.

[Liquid]

Never had any trouble with the big docking port, it's got a texture that you can see during placement.

Actually, the point is, most people don't examine parts after they place them.

I stopped reading right there.

Squad cannot be held accountable for people's lack of patience and unwillingness to check their work.

Agreed, looking at that quote it does look like case of "change your game to pander to reckless clowns!".

[Tiron]

Never had any trouble with the big docking port, it's got a texture that you can see during placement.

Agreed, looking at that quote it does look like case of "change your game to pander to reckless clowns!".

I wasn't aware that copypasta from one texture to another (which I could do in GIMP in about 30 seconds if I knew where the textures were hidden!) consisted of 'changing the game'.

Even if they add an arrow, you'll still need to check the orientation. Just, you'll have an arrow that indicates the orientation, making it easier to tell. Right now it's pretty subtle.

Edit: Okay, I found where the textures are not-so-hidden. Now I've just got to get them open.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Tiron

[Johnno]

Actually, the point is, most people don't examine parts after they place them.

Should there be red arrows on engines then? And SRBs? Maybe even text saying THIS END TOWARD SPACE? When we get proper re-entry heat do we need red arrows pointing HEAT SHIELD THIS WAY?

Yes I'm drawing it to the extreme silly end, but consider that it'll take you longer to try and remember what way the arrow should point compared to just looking at the docking port when placing it. And the red arrow isn't the final solution, I've read and replied to threads where people couldn't figure out why their decoupler was sticking to the engine, even if it has an arrow AND description stating exactly what the arrow does.

If 'most people' can't figure out which way the docking port needs to go, and can't be bothered to actually look at it when placing it, then perhaps 'most people' should go play Hello Kitty Space Adventure II instead of KSP. If this game was to be dumbed down to the point that 'most people' could do it without a single error or learning along the way then it'd just be a single click game where you press the 'go to space' button.

Decouplers have an arrow because they have a very specific function, we don't need arrows on everything. Docking ports have an extremely clear visual indicating their function.

So to 'most people', stop being lazy and check your work while building, then test it thoroughly. It's part of the process.

[shand]

really, nobody here is wrong.

Although Tiron - your argument is flawed. if people dont check the orientation now - they won't check it if there is a pretty arrow on it.

as stated, people still get the decoupler the wrong way round. i dont even know which way the arrow should point!

this is simply a case of people not placing the part properly, if they dont check now, a huge sign pointing from it saying "THIS WAY UP DUMBFACE" wouldnt change a thing. the way i do it is place it properly the first time, if i'm unsure, delete it and place it properly the second time. pressing W twice if it should be inverted isnt exactly hard.

Exactly the same as the docking hub - squad didnt have written on each side "NOT A DOCKING PORT" people just made the mistake once, and never again.

equally the probe bodies models arent labeled with "DONT FORGET A BATTERY" and the solar panels arent labeled with "ONLY GENERATES POWER WHEN DEPLOYED". while the landing legs arent labeled with a directional arrow dispite the fact it isn't clear which way up they go before you first see the animation/deployment. there are certain things you have to learn in any game, like if reloading a half spent magazine loses the remaining rounds, or if fall damage or friendly fire is a thing.

SUMMARY:

Yes, an arrow would more clearly indicate the required orientation.

No, people wouldnt be more likely to check it.

There is a precedent of squad not labeling things that arent imediately obvious.

BUT:

all that said, mod an arrow onto your version if you feel it would help you, and feel free to distribute it to others if you feel it would help them.

PERSONALLY:

I like the aesthetics the way they are, I like the KW decouplers because they arent covered in arrows and stripes. I feel any obvious enough marking would either require the port to be thicker or just less aestheticly pleasing.

What DOES get my goat is that all the ports are of different depths. thats iritating!