Current Nav Ball Is Wrong For Space Navigation

[NeoMorph]

Yes maltesh, you are right there. in deciding what North is that is... but what I was trying to put over is that instead of using an EXTERNAL point of reference (which is what heading is relating to) they should be using an INTERNAL point of reference (ie the gyro which is what Yaw is referring to) for spacecraft that are going to leave the sphere of influence of their home body.

It's all down to reference points. Apollo figured this out and used a 360 degree plane for Pitch, Roll and Yaw. Earlier systems didn't do that because they were still in the Earth's SOI and could reference that. Any craft leaving the Earth SOI needed a reference system that was stable... hence the gyro. KSP should do similar.

[einsteiner]

Your gyro is still going to have to be initialized to something. Are you talking about having the yaw initialized to the oribtal plane, instead of north? So that component of your attitude would be described as "30 degrees toward normal+", instead of "heading 60 deg". This is similar to how the HUD in Orbiter works. I don't want to encourage copying, but a lot of the navigation issues that come up in this forum were very neatly handled in Orbiter and KSP could definitely take some cues from it.

[Themohawkninja]

Of course it's not the "right kind", but in the end, the current navball works perfectly fine for orbital maneuvers, so why bother changing it? It will just make the game harder at first, since we will all have to figure out how to use the new one.

[Kasuha]

In current implementation, navball works as a "space compass" relative to the current SOI main body. It automatically adjusts to show you direction towards the body, away from the body, perpendicular to the body, and direction of the rotational axis. Also any direction in space is represented by exactly one point on it.

There is no way Apollo astronauts could get such a great instrument. Pitch values going to 360 mean directions in space except for 0 pitch and 0 yaw were all represented by more than one point on it. Because pitch up 180° is the same direction as pitch down 180°, for just an easy to reach example. Also their navball did not reflect orientation of the reference planet, they needed to set it up to an arbitrary direction and it was then showing difference from that arbitrary direction. I am entirely not convinced this would be any helpful in playing KSP.

Apollo astronauts had to use many other instruments to be able to get information every KSP player can get from single look at the navball. If we degraded to Apollo navball, we'd need these instrument equivalents, too. And KSP learning curve would become much steeper than it already is.

[Ravenchant]

Thing is, the current navball is intuitive to anyone that has ever seen an aircraft cockpit. An Apollo-style one based on internal gyros would be more realistic, though it would require far more time to get used to as well. As a switchable mode, it could work, but let's be honest: when have you last used the navball in interplanetary space, except for maneuver node execution?

[Serratus]

Apollo astronauts had to use many other instruments to be able to get information every KSP player can get from single look at the navball. If we degraded to Apollo navball, we'd need these instrument equivalents, too. And KSP learning curve would become much steeper than it already is.

THIS. Our Navball is immensely more advanced and useful than what we have IRL. Let's not complain because we have an upgrade... Once You get used to it the current navball makes complete sense. I must be honest - i didn't understand the OPs point completely but movements to navball always made sense to me.

Still, as someone said before - "If everybody wins, then everybody wins". So if someone wants to have realistic balls, I'm OK with it, just as long as I can switch between them freely. That BTW is an argument I would completely understand: realistic navballs for realisms sake.

PS. I know what I did there

[Kasuha]

but let's be honest: when have you last used the navball in interplanetary space, except for maneuver node execution?

I use it all the time for corrections with RCS. Align my ship prograde and adjust roll so my Up is towards Sun's North, then I know that I/K are anti-/normal, and J/L are radial in/out. Maneuvers are too coarse for such thing, you poke the marker and lose your intercept. This way I just watch what the trajectory at the target does and can get optimal low Pe intercept from the other side of the system at minimum dv cost.

[NeoMorph]

I just hate the fact that the current nav ball is planetary based (brown for ground, orange for sky) and that the node target indicator can be hidden on the other side of the ball. Deflection needles like the ones on an Apollo/Orbiter style ball let you know which way you have to turn to reach the node making it way more accurate.

Once I get my new CNC rig bought and setup I will be able to make the model for you guys to see what I am talking about. Unfortunately there have been a few setback in my personal life that has held me back... but only a few more weeks to go.

[coolitic]

The OP has a point. However, since the game basically plays in an enclosed area, i think it isn't that important to change this.