SSTO Space Plane - Get orbit around Kerbin as many times as possible w/o refueling

[AnalogAddict]

Get to orbit as many times as you can using your SSTO Space Planes without refueling!

Guidelines: You may use Mechanical Jeb for flameout assist, Kerbal Engineer, or equivalent information providing mods.

Please no engine modifications or mods that provide such engines.

Since Mechanical Jeb is allowed for assistance, maintain a 2:1 intake:jet ratio, please no "air-hogging".

Your craft must be a space plane.

My proof of concept:

I can get to orbit three times with this craft.

Note** Final Landing performed without ASAS further demonstrating capability.

Leaderboards: Number of orbits.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/44759-The-Courier-SpacePlane-To-orbit-three-times-w-o-refueling%21

Edited August 9, 2013 by AnalogAddict
Changing title - more specific

[Captain Sierra]

This is very inspecific. I can get to orbit and back as many times as I want with the same craft so long as my refueling station isn't empty. I think there needs to be rules on refueling and some clarification here.

[Thourion]

This is very inspecific. I can get to orbit and back as many times as I want with the same craft so long as my refueling station isn't empty. I think there needs to be rules on refueling and some clarification here.

Heh yeah, but if you see the video, he made all 3 orbits without refueling.

[AnalogAddict]

Heh yeah, but if you see the video, he made all 3 orbits without refueling.

Thanks for watching!

This is very inspecific. I can get to orbit and back as many times as I want with the same craft so long as my refueling station isn't empty. I think there needs to be rules on refueling and some clarification here.

Yes, please to make sense, this challenge must involve as many trips to orbit without refueling

[Pirke]

How many times can you land at the Mun and get back to land at KSC without refueling?

[Captain Sierra]

With an SSTO, 0. The Orion shuttle must tank up before leaving LKO if it isn't crashing landing.

[tavert]

This is one of those challenges that reappears every so often. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/38941-There-and-back-again-again and http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/41607-Multiple-Launches-to-80k for example.

With jets, just getting to orbit and back can be done at least a dozen times, more if you're patient and take the design to an extreme.

Here's 12, stock+MechJeb. VTVL with a parachute for landing, since it requires less attention this way. I had to quicksave/quickload in orbit each time otherwise the repacked parachute would fall off on deployment, and quickloading on the ground would occasionally break physics for some reason... Anyway, you could go even more times than this with a Kerbal in a seat instead of a cockpit and adding a few more tons of jet fuel (maybe wings too if you want to carry so much fuel your takeoff TWR is less than 1), it just becomes a test of patience.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

How many times can you land at the Mun and get back to land at KSC without refueling?

That's a fairly tight challenge to even get to 2, you'd need something like 5500 m/s of vacuum delta-V plus enough jet fuel to get to orbit twice. Worth trying!

[AnalogAddict]

This is one of those challenges that reappears every so often. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/38941-There-and-back-again-again and http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/41607-Multiple-Launches-to-80k for example.

With jets, just getting to orbit and back can be done at least a dozen times, more if you're patient and take the design to an extreme.

That's a fairly tight challenge to even get to 2, you'd need something like 5500 m/s of vacuum delta-V plus enough jet fuel to get to orbit twice. Worth trying!

Amended the Challenge; Get to orbit as many times as possible in your SSTO spaceplanes.

[tavert]

Just have to spam wings until it can take off horizontally, that may cut off some fuel mass but I bet you can still do double digits. Just takes too much attention to deal with horizontal takeoff and landing that many times in a row...

[AnalogAddict]

Just have to spam wings until it can take off horizontally, that may cut off some fuel mass but I bet you can still do double digits. Just takes too much attention to deal with horizontal takeoff and landing that many times in a row...

Hence the challenge begins!

[Stochasty]

That's a fairly tight challenge to even get to 2, you'd need something like 5500 m/s of vacuum delta-V plus enough jet fuel to get to orbit twice. Worth trying!

If docking/undocking is allowed, this should be pretty easy. It doesn't take much to build a nuclear powered craft with that kind of delta-v; add it as payload to some big jet-powered SSTO, undock, land on the Mun, return, dock, land at KSC, repeat.

Without docking, it's a lot harder, since you'll need to carry your jet fuel to the Mun. That craft I used for the Munlight challenge way back when had about 3500 m/s delta-v in orbit (she could make a return trip from Duna) and was only 16 tons, so scaling that up might get you there. Nao had some crazy craft that managed an SSTO Mun return without using jets or ions, so adding jets to that design might also work.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Stochasty

[tavert]

Nao had some crazy craft that managed an SSTO Mun return without using jets or ions, so adding jets to that design might also work.

Pretty sure that was me, if Nao's done it too I don't remember seeing it. I've yet to see anyone else pull it off and post about it, though some of the designs lump was making a few months back would probably be capable of it. Rocket-only SSTO's (no jets or ions) are delta-V limited somewhere a little bit higher than a Mun round trip or a Kerbol escape, a little over 3 km/s delta-V remaining after getting into Kerbin orbit. You won't be making two trips with one of those.

Even without detaching the jet stage a 2x Mun and back should be feasible. Something like 4 jets, 2 LV-N's, 16 tons of bipropellant, and 4 tons of jet fuel might work. 30-something tons total mass, mass ratio of roughly 2 should give the 5500 m/s you need, and (Kerbin-relative) TWR of 0.3-0.4 for Mun landing.

Edited August 7, 2013 by tavert

[Stochasty]

Pretty sure that was me, if Nao's done it too I don't remember seeing it. I've yet to see anyone else pull it off and post about it, though some of the designs lump was making a few months back would probably be capable of it. Rocket-only SSTO's (no jets or ions) are delta-V limited somewhere a little bit higher than a Mun round trip or a Kerbol escape, a little over 3 km/s delta-V remaining after getting into Kerbin orbit. You won't be making two trips with one of those.

Even without detaching the jet stage a 2x Mun and back should be feasible. Something like 4 jets, 2 LV-N's, 16 tons of bipropellant, and 4 tons of jet fuel might work. 30-something tons total mass, mass ratio of roughly 2 should give the 5500 m/s you need, and (Kerbin-relative) TWR of 0.3-0.4 for Mun landing.

Was it you? The design I remember was some crazy asymmetrical design using a pair of RT-10s plus a liquid engine.

As for your 2x Mun design - hmmm, that's close to what I was thinking as well. My Munlight design was essentially half that: 2 jets, 1 LV-N, ~9 tons of biproellant fuel and 1 ton of Jet fuel (since I was only planning on orbitting once).

[tavert]

Ah yeah I remember that asymmetric thing, that was Nao's but IIRC it was just to get into orbit, I don't think that would be Mun-capable. My first rocket-only SSTO Mun-and-back design had 1 LV-N, 4 T30's, 4 RT-10's, and a bunch of fuel. The second design traded one of the T30's for another LV-N, and needed quite a bit less fuel to do the same thing.

If you cut down the payload using a seat instead of a pod, that half design might work too.

Edit: I can't seem to find Nao's asymmetric rocket that used 2 SRB's, I think it may have been before April? He has a couple here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26975-The-Single-stage-Altitude-Challenge?p=336122&viewfull=1#post336122 that use 1 SRB, 1 909, and 1 LV-N. I'm pretty sure the liquid engine in his 2-SRB design was a 909, but I may be wrong there. Maybe he'll show up and refresh our memory.

Edited August 8, 2013 by tavert

[AnalogAddict]

Updated the challenge to be more specific...

Any takers?