Liquid rover wheels

[JimmyAgent007]

I was thinking T-1000 wheels that would alter according to terrain. Spikes for going up hills, wide to avoid flipping, that kinda stuff.

[minerman30]

Electric wheels work totally fine...

Yes they do. But saying that as an excuse for this is like saying we can't build spaceplanes anymore because we have rockets, which work as well.

It's a great idea, but instead of separate wheels, how about an undercarriage system? Like having an engine part, a chassis part, and front/back wheel parts?

[TMS]

Man, I was totally hoping that this was a suggestion for rover wheels made of liquid. Consider me disappointed.

Same here.

Had also hoped for suspension made from jelly.

[Eric S]

Doesn't strike me as that interesting of an idea, and not horribly practical, either. Has there ever been an internal combustion engine used for actual work in LEO, let alone on other planets? Electric motors strike me as more reliable and safer in this kind of environment. As for moving a large base, the large rover wheels already move at 36 km/hr, do you really want to move a vehicle the size of a small building faster than that over broken ground? The fact that electrical vehicles can refuel using solar panels or RTGs is just too large of a convenience to overlook in the case of any kind of extended operation where there isn't a ready supply of gasoline or similar.

[leax256]

would like to point out the complexity of a Internal combustion engine compared to electric engine, there's just so much that can go wrong, the electric engines have just a few parts, power source, battery, magnet, wires. much easier to fix if broken especially since most astronaughts have worked with electric engines alot.

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

Electricity is actually lighter than a gasoline car. SO all you people saying electric car would weigh more is wrong. You don't see 900 pound bikes going over 70 mph and gets 112 mpg. While a electric bike would get over 70 mph with 112 miles per charge

[Rockyfelle185]

I dont see anyone saying electric weights more...

[Rage097]

I dont see anyone saying electric weights more...

<.<

A combustion Engine requires fuel. Fuel is FAR heavier than Electrons.

I do not see a purpose for a liquid fuel engine for wheels, especially when Electrically powered vehicles only require a few solar panels or RTGs, which works everywhere and weighs less.

[BostLabs]

Man, I was totally hoping that this was a suggestion for rover wheels made of liquid. Consider me disappointed.

Oh crap! My tires evaporated... Again!

Or

Oh crap! My tires froze solid... Again!

[Rockyfelle185]

<.<

A combustion Engine requires fuel. Fuel is FAR heavier than Electrons.

I do not see a purpose for a liquid fuel engine for wheels, especially when Electrically powered vehicles only require a few solar panels or RTGs, which works everywhere and weighs less.

As said no one said against you...

[Technical Ben]

You already have this. Use an engine that generates electric. Use that electric to turn the wheels. Thus KSP already uses rocket fuel to turn the wheels.

If you turn the Ant engine into an electric generating engine with little to zero thrus, it will become an exhaust and engine block. It also will not run without oxygen, so you avoid the worry of modding to get it to run in atmosphere only. Or mod it to run like a jet engine, and it needs an air-intake to work.

Rage097, fuel is not heavier than electronics. Both a battery and a petrol tank are "fuel" or "stored energy". Both have weight. All in all, the highest density of energy storage of the two usually is petrol. Some batteries might push close to it. Why do you think there are no electric jet planes yet?

Edited October 11, 2013 by Technical Ben

[M5000]

Why do you think there are no electric jet planes yet?

Actually, I would argue that the reason that there are no electric planes is that they cannot produce thrust in enough quantities to be useful for large aircraft. There's just no way with current technology to produce usable actual THRUST to push a plane at speeds faster than a jet engine.

We use jets because fuel is still cheap (compared to the cost of maintenance, licensing, insurance, et cetera) to operate a plane, and produces enough thrust to move our planes at speeds that are actually advantageous in the interest of time rather than driving a car. If we were to use electric planes, the batteries would have to either spin the jets at incredible speeds (which in turn requires a lot of current from the batteries) in a ducted-fan type system, or turn the props just like an old propeller plane. The batteries would, in fact be too heavy, or would not produce a desirable output that is significantly more advantageous over jet fuel.

Regardless, back on to the topic of wheels powered by LF/O or IntakeAir, I'm still not seeing the practicality of them over standard rover wheels..

[Arbolus]

Electricity is actually lighter than a gasoline car. SO all you people saying electric car would weigh more is wrong. You don't see 900 pound bikes going over 70 mph and gets 112 mpg. While a electric bike would get over 70 mph with 112 miles per charge

Electric cars need batteries. Batteries have a low maximum energy density compared to petrol. If the electric car is to travel any further than a few miles between recharges, the batteries required to store the electricity are going to be much heavier than an internal combustion engine and the energy equivalent in liquid fuel would be.

In KSP batteries are much lighter than they should be, while solar panels and RTGs are much more efficient. If it weren't for that, electric rovers would be of no use whatsoever for travelling any great distance across land.

[ThirdHorseman]

Can't you already do this by just using unpowered Small Gear Bays as wheels, and get thrust from a liquid engine? It's not exactly an engine powering the wheels, but you have liquid fuel being used to provide motion so it's pretty much the same thing...and who doesn't like rocket cars?!

[Eric S]

Electric cars need batteries. Batteries have a low maximum energy density compared to petrol.

In the case where the vehicle would have to carry both the fuel and the oxidizer, feeding it into a fuel cell which then powers an electric motor is still more efficient than an internal combustion engine, even in energy density. Granted, this tends to put a cap on your available burst power and isn't as easily recharged as a battery

In KSP batteries are much lighter than they should be, while solar panels and RTGs are much more efficient. If it weren't for that, electric rovers would be of no use whatsoever for travelling any great distance across land.

Right up until you need to refuel, at which point the tortoise wins the race.

The reason rovers move so slow isn't the limit on electricity, it's the communication delay between the rover and the driver. The Lunar rover wasn't rechargeable, but still covered the kind of distance it takes unmanned rovers years to cover. There's an annual 1700 to 2000 mile race for electric vehicles. This year, the winner finished in 5 days.

[Rockyfelle185]

Electric cars need batteries. Batteries have a low maximum energy density compared to petrol. If the electric car is to travel any further than a few miles between recharges, the batteries required to store the electricity are going to be much heavier than an internal combustion engine and the energy equivalent in liquid fuel would be.

In KSP batteries are much lighter than they should be, while solar panels and RTGs are much more efficient. If it weren't for that, electric rovers would be of no use whatsoever for travelling any great distance across land.

Well, since electric is so operpowered, fuel to drive could be aswell

[boomerdog2000]

Since there's currently no easy way to refuel a rover on the surface of a planet without mods I don't really see the point.

[Nuke]

id just say make a 'mechanical power' resource. you could introduce drive shafts and axels and these would be used to move mechanical power around. it would be supplied by an engine or motor part. you could also do 'hydraulic pressure' for things like landing gear, control surfaces, hydraulic motors, etc. pressure would come from a hydraulic pump part (which could be powered by mechanical power). i think all this stuff can be created with existing systems in the game. modders could do it. but stock ones would be cool too.

[Kryssandra]

When I saw the title of the thread, I was thinking of the big air-filled tires on hyrobikes that let them float on water. It would be awesome to have that option so we could make rovers capable of amphibious operation. I would enjoy driving over the surface of Eve's or Laythe's oceans ^.^

[Rockyfelle185]

Since there's currently no easy way to refuel a rover on the surface of a planet without mods I don't really see the point.

My rover is perfect for refueling Its holds a couple of linked tanks below the floor and is able to refuel via the front.

When I saw the title of the thread, I was thinking of the big air-filled tires on hyrobikes that let them float on water. It would be awesome to have that option so we could make rovers capable of amphibious operation. I would enjoy driving over the surface of Eve's or Laythe's oceans ^.^

That would actually be very nice, since we need something like a boat

[Technical Ben]

Actually, I would argue that the reason that there are no electric planes is that they cannot produce thrust in enough quantities to be useful for large aircraft. There's just no way with current technology to produce usable actual THRUST to push a plane at speeds faster than a jet engine.

We use jets because fuel is still cheap (compared to the cost of maintenance, licensing, insurance, et cetera) to operate a plane, and produces enough thrust to move our planes at speeds that are actually advantageous in the interest of time rather than driving a car. If we were to use electric planes, the batteries would have to either spin the jets at incredible speeds (which in turn requires a lot of current from the batteries) in a ducted-fan type system, or turn the props just like an old propeller plane. The batteries would, in fact be too heavy, or would not produce a desirable output that is significantly more advantageous over jet fuel.

Regardless, back on to the topic of wheels powered by LF/O or IntakeAir, I'm still not seeing the practicality of them over standard rover wheels..

While true, I can get electric model aircraft. The trade off for electric can be on par with liquid fuel. So there is not much if any gain in fuel density AFAIK.

PPPS, An electric "fuel cell" can be, and is a combustion* engine at times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

It's just a very efficient low torque combustion engine.

*using the term very lightly there.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Technical Ben