Thoughts on most important next addition to the Game.

[NeozooM]

Hi everyone.

I'm new here and already totally in love with this new but already amazing game wich is KSP.

First steps were hard and then the fun started to pop out from this experience. I love many things in this game.

And especially the fact that it is not based on scripting but on real (or simulated as real) physics, which allow players to innovate and even create things beyond expectation of everyone. So , congratulations to developers and thank you for this awesome work.

This being said, i am not a big fan of Mods... I , as many people, think that playing stock gives the most satisfaction and fun.

But i would like to discuss about what you all think is the really most "reasonable" and important things to add next in the game.

IMHO two biggest three biggest things yet missing in the game are :

- Pumps (hydrolic or electric) allowing to move things with a slow pressure (like doors, pushing something slowly with a rover to tighten space bases? creating lifting machines (escalators ?)

and of course a piece that attach two parts and allow them to rotate on its axis.

Just those two litte new things would allow so many more deep gameplay and possibilities. (cargo, big hangars, mechanical work machines etc)

then immaginatio and investigation of the community will do the rest to so many awesome and usefull new crafts.

- More diverse and interactive interriors (like HSC container ! but allowing to move and even pass throught doors inside a big station or spacecraft.)

Very useful for complex bases on other planets surface.

- Allowing kerbals to attach some parts in space (other than docking ports wich are quite limited in crafting bigger and thickier things)

just allowing them to attach some parts only like structural pannels and linear struts would be enought .

And maybe further, making planets and surfaces a bit more complex/ textured with more things to see discover (like ruins, artifacts etc.)

Just my 2 cents. But i feel like those things, wouldn't be sooo hard to implement

(some mods already did) and would add so much.

What do you think everybody ?

[EiEiO]

I really want Kerbals to be able to construct ships in space or on the ground... For example after a mission you can use KAS to pick up a capsule, fly it to KSC, and refit and refuel it.

[regex]

Career mode is currently up next, we'll probably see little gameplay refinements like you want once they've got the big features in.

[DChurchill]

There are a couple mods that would do #1. Kerbal Attachment System And Damned Robotics spring to mind.

[Mr Shifty]

This being said, i am not a big fan of Mods... I , as many people, think that playing stock gives the most satisfaction and fun.

...

Just those two litte new things would allow so many more deep gameplay and possibilities. (cargo, big hangars, mechanical work machines etc)

These two statements are incongruous given that what you want is mostly already available using mods.

[regex]

These two statements are incongruous given that what you want is mostly already available using mods.

But he's not a big fan of mods, as many people, like him, think that playing stock gives the most satisfaction and fun. Therefore stock should include the features he wants post-haste!

[boxman]

These two statements are incongruous given that what you want is mostly already available using mods.

And often they stop working with next version, which means all your crafts becomes useless. And sometimes the developer does not update the mod to work with new version either. This is a big problem with mods that would not happen with stock parts.

Also they add random instabilitiy issues that can be really hard to track down if you are using more than one mod.

Using mods wont for me be anywhere near as satisfying before this game has reached a point where new versions dont break mods. At least then I can still use those mods even if they are not currently being developed anymore.

So I still think the best way would be to make some more stock parts as there are really plenty of parts that are really lacking from game like ball bearing, hinges and so on. These are essential if you want to make for example a artificial gravity station or a shuttle with hinged doors.

In a sandbox space game like KSP you should really be able to make a shuttle without having to use mods or using workarounds that does not work as they should.

Take for example EJ's shuttle with cargobay doors.. He did a great job making doors that open just using stock parts, but it is still very unreliable since the door and ship is separate crafts when doors are opened.

Edited August 21, 2013 by boxman

[NeozooM]

As i wrote up here, mods aren't the real game.

They are NOT stable. They mess up with physics, allowing some ridiculous things wich don't fit in the Core game design.

I don't think adding two little pieces to stock parts (rotative axis structure, and pumps) would be such a big work.

And seriously, this is exactly what this game needs. Simple, efficient, usable things.

If developers focus too much on career and such, and let all the other things for the mod community, this will not become as great as it could be.

Implementing best "not cheating" mods to the original game is the way to go.

And adding multiple possibilities but not "one usage" content is what makes games like KSP so good so far (playing just with stock parts)

If people don't want to use and mess up files with mods, it is their right no ? As mods aren't products of the developpers work, they can't redirect customers to it saying

"hey look it already works here"

[Mr Shifty]

But he's not a big fan of mods, as many people, like him, think that playing stock gives the most satisfaction and fun. Therefore stock should include the features he wants post-haste!

Indeed:)

I'm not trying to start a flame war OP, but it would be better to say something like: "The features offered by the KAS mod and the Damned Robotics mod would make a great addition to the stock game." I can respect folks who play stock because they don't want to mess with mods, or want to experience the game as the developers have made it, or want the challenge of being limited to stock parts and capabilities. But if you play stock, you should accept that stock = limited by definition. If you want more possibilities and deeper gameplay, that's what the mod community offers.

[Mr Shifty]

And often they stop working with next version, which means all your crafts becomes useless. And sometimes the developer does not update the mod to work with new version either. This is a big problem with mods that would not happen with stock parts.

From the 0.21 release notes:

This new version is incompatible with SFS (savegame) files from previous versions

[DChurchill]

Indeed:)

I'm not trying to start a flame war OP, but it would be better to say something like: "The features offered by the KAS mod and the Damned Robotics mod would make a great addition to the stock game." I can respect folks who play stock because they don't want to mess with mods, or want to experience the game as the developers have made it, or want the challenge of being limited to stock parts and capabilities. But if you play stock, you should accept that stock = limited by definition. If you want more possibilities and deeper gameplay, that's what the mod community offers.

That and, because they have implemented such a robust mod system, I think Squad have decided NOT to make some things stock BECAUSE great mods exist for them. Or at least no be in any great hurry to implement a stock version. Why waste the time?

For me, ideally I would like a nice sandbox to play in provided by Squad, with many of the toys provided by mod makers.

[NeozooM]

But if you play stock, you should accept that stock = limited by definition. If you want more possibilities and deeper gameplay, that's what the mod community offers.

no, simply no.

Mods add what fantasies they like.

No stock players asks for star wars remake or "unrelated to original KSP concept" addon.

We ask simple parts that are truely missing right now. And wich are totally in the spirit of KSP original game.

People made hellicopters with stock parts. That is what KSP is all about. Have same base of pieces and making new things with ideas.

adding rotating structures and some pumps wouldn't be so hard and give many possibilities of craft. Not change the overall concept.

And as mods are made by non developers people they can't be considered as "content" for customers who bought the game.

And yes, most of the time mods are unstable and stop working when new version comes. And they can only start working on new mod version when the new game version is out delaying the whole thing. Thats not what many people want.

[boxman]

From the 0.21 release notes:

A bit different than having it break every version is it not??

And what happens when the mod is no longer developed?? The ball bearings i use now could stop working completely with next version with no fix ever being released. With stock parts at least the parts themselves will work.

And btw.. the save files for most could easily be converted so they would work, this is not the case with broken mods...

[NeozooM]

totally agree with boxman.

Seriously , mods are NOT the way to go.... if devs rely on mods for futur content, they will end up with an unrefined game.

mods are made by unexperienced amator devs wich are not paid.

KSP devs SELL their game, so they should be aware of what is the most asked parts by the community to add them stock.

Axis rotating structure for doors, and pumps to manipulate parts with custom keys... not so much asked isn't it?

[Millie]

Without claiming that one way of playing is better than others, stock parts and game concepts TEND to be better balanced within the game than mod parts. Pro devs have more testing time and can see the bigger picture of how one feature interacts with the others. You tend to get a smoother overall experience with officially sanctioned parts. At least, that's my experience with other games.

This is one of the reasons why I tend to play stock most of the time, especially with the game in alpha state. But naturally there are some kickass, balanced and well-tested mods out there. It's how you choose to play the game that will determine which way you go.

If something is really cool and adds core flavour to the game (Kethane, anyone? ), it ought to be stock before 1.0 in some form.

[regex]

Axis rotating structure for doors, and pumps to manipulate parts with custom keys... not so much asked isn't it?

Not really but it's not something the devs should be working on right now, nor are they totally important because mods can pick up the slack. In the meantime, the devs can work on "big picture" features before getting down to the nitty-gritty of adding little wish-list parts.

[Camelotking524]

I don't think we will be seeing these things stock for awhile. The devs are focused on getting the campaign up and running. We may end up with some parts with the next update, with the R&D function being added, but I don't think we will be seeing things that require the coding that KAS and Damned Robotics has.

[Capt'n Skunky]

mods are made by unexperienced amator devs wich are not paid.

You do realize we hired modders that added significant contributions to the game *before* we hired them?

Chad (C7) made space plane parts to which we added the space plane hangar. If not for Chad's work, we may not even have had space planes.

Rob (N31X5) gave us the plugin system for mods. Without his work, a lot of these mods wouldn't work period.

The thing is that our developers need to focus on building the core game, modders are free to work on whatever their hearts desire. This allows them to create some of the content we want to create later when we have the time.

A lot of those parts you are so happy to use as "stock" weren't always stock and came via mods. To dismiss mods they way you are is rather disrespectful towards some of these guys that put a lot of time and effort into their work. It's fine you don't want to use them, just don't look down on them or anyone that uses them.

We'd like to thank you for your suggestions but this thread is going to be closed before it turns ugly.

Cheers!

Capt'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager