Munbase project queries.

[Skorpychan]

I've designed a Munbase, basically as testing for when I stick a permanent, stationary base on Duna. It's basically two hitchhiker containers, with solar panels, science gear, batteries, a rover, and a little ion probe on top for exploration of things.

However, I've run into a few issues with brainstorming about it. Namely, on getting the crew there. Separately from the base; it's going to be a little tricksy to get it down onto the Mun.

I have space for eight kerbals on the base, if I pack them in like green sardines. My current designs of Mun landers are capable, but I'm unable to decide on which one to use. Especially after the dedicated mun crew exchange vehicle blew up on return to Kerbin, when it parachuted into a mountain, overturned, and exploded.

Should I move less kerbals at once for safety and impact resistance of the capsule, by using the 2-kerb lander-can?

Should I go with the big conical capsule for even more durability?

Should I throw caution to the wind, use hitchhiker pods, and cut down on trips?

Should I send the ships back after to be re-used?

Or just abandon them on the Mun unfuelled?

Or maybe give them enough fuel to return, but not use it so I have an escape plan?

My rovers fit nicely under Rockomax tanks, but I want to send out more than one per mission. They end up only just off the ground with the heavy-duty legs on the tank, so I can't really stack them vertically.

They can basically be stacked vertically if I use spacers between them, but they'd soon end up being dropped from quite a height onto a pile of debris.

Short of using KAS to make a winch/crane, is there a reliable way of dropping them from being held onto the rocket vertically to on the ground horizontal and the right way up?

Or just clear the debris?

I want my crew exchange missions to carry supplies, but there's not really anything container-shaped that isn't a capsule for kerbals, or a fuel tank. What would be the best substitute for air, water, and snacks?

[Specialist290]

Those are some very good questions. Really, things like this come down to what you intend to use the base for and your personal play style, but I'll do my best to provide some answers you can use for a jumping-off point at least.

I've designed a Munbase, basically as testing for when I stick a permanent, stationary base on Duna. It's basically two hitchhiker containers, with solar panels, science gear, batteries, a rover, and a little ion probe on top for exploration of things.

However, I've run into a few issues with brainstorming about it. Namely, on getting the crew there. Separately from the base; it's going to be a little tricksy to get it down onto the Mun.

I have space for eight kerbals on the base, if I pack them in like green sardines. My current designs of Mun landers are capable, but I'm unable to decide on which one to use. Especially after the dedicated mun crew exchange vehicle blew up on return to Kerbin, when it parachuted into a mountain, overturned, and exploded.

Should I move less kerbals at once for safety and impact resistance of the capsule, by using the 2-kerb lander-can?

Should I go with the big conical capsule for even more durability?

Should I throw caution to the wind, use hitchhiker pods, and cut down on trips?

Should I send the ships back after to be re-used?

Or just abandon them on the Mun unfuelled?

Or maybe give them enough fuel to return, but not use it so I have an escape plan?

The way I play personally, safety is a high priority for my designs, and that includes having a way to get my kerbonauts safely off-surface at any time. (Of course, unless / until life support requirements are added to the game, there's really no reason you can't just leave them on the surface forever, but I like to roleplay a bit.) I'd include at least one "Mun taxi" capable of reaching orbit from the Mun's surface, and preferably enough to bring all my personnel home if I really needed to. Making them Kerbin-return capable is a good idea as a "safety measure," but isn't strictly necessary, especially if you have a preexisting space station in orbit. Then you can use your Mun taxis to shuttle kerbonauts between the station and the Mun's surface (with refueling when necessary) and Orion / Soyuz style capsules moving crew between the station and Kerbin. I'd definitely also include a probe core, so you can fly them manned or unmanned as the mission dictates.

My rovers fit nicely under Rockomax tanks, but I want to send out more than one per mission. They end up only just off the ground with the heavy-duty legs on the tank, so I can't really stack them vertically.

They can basically be stacked vertically if I use spacers between them, but they'd soon end up being dropped from quite a height onto a pile of debris.

Short of using KAS to make a winch/crane, is there a reliable way of dropping them from being held onto the rocket vertically to on the ground horizontal and the right way up?

Or just clear the debris?

This older discussion might prove helpful. Quite a few different and creative ideas for landing rovers were hashed out while it was active.

Also, not to toot my own horn too much, but one of my favorite designs is this one, which includes a descent stage integrated into the rover itself. Getting that thing balanced took an awful lot of work, but it's really fun to drive.

I want my crew exchange missions to carry supplies, but there's not really anything container-shaped that isn't a capsule for kerbals, or a fuel tank. What would be the best substitute for air, water, and snacks?

If you're willing to use mods, why look for substitutes when you could have the real thing? TAC Life Support and Ioncross Crew Support are two of the life support mods I've heard the most noise about, though you should definitely familiarize yourself with how they work if you decide to use either of them.

Hope this helps

Edited September 1, 2013 by Specialist290
Dingoes ate my post, Batman!

[Temstar]

and that includes having a way to get my kerbonauts safely off-surface at any time. (Of course, unless / until life support requirements are added to the game, there's really no reason you can't just leave them on the surface forever, but I like to roleplay a bit.) I'd include at least one "Mun taxi" capable of reaching orbit from the Mun's surface, and preferably enough to bring all my personnel home if I really needed to.

This. If you have some kind of facility to house/return kerbonaut from Munar orbit then an escape vehicle could be extremely simple - just build an open air lander and you'll be able to get 20 guys back in under 5 tons. In fact NASA had serious plans for a "DIY" Lunar Escape System for long duration Apollo missions to return the two moonwalkers back to the CSM in the event that the LM ascent stage engine fail to fire. Using the astronaut's own EVA suit as life support you could build a craft so simple that it could be built out of materials salvaged from the LM:

[Skorpychan]

Where'd you find that? Fascinating stuff...

I'd rather not install mods for life support; I have crews out in the wide black yonder that I don't want to screw over. The Munbase is more a roleplaying thing.

Intended use for it is mostly as a base of operations; somewhere to return to for the munar nights when my rovers don't operate as well, something to send missions to and from, and so forth.

For Munar escapes, I DO have a space station in Munar orbit, but I haven't figured out docking or rendezvous yet. And since it barely takes any deltaV to get back to kerbin anyway if you do it right, that's no real big thing.

[Specialist290]

Fair enough. Never said you had to, just that you might want to consider it. You could always consider simulated "supply payloads" made from fuel tanks that aren't linked to the main engines. If you have something like KAS installed (since I saw you mention it), you could even use those to double as emergency fuel sources in case one of your landers gets stranded without enough fuel to return once you touch down.

That said, as I mentioned earlier, it really all comes down to what you're most comfortable with. Experiment around, and see what works for you.

[Skorpychan]

I was thinking fuel tanks, but they're awfully explosive.

I'd need to make a forklift or crane truck of some sort to get supplies to the base, too. Discovered today that I can get a landing near it (~1km) with a supply craft, without resorting to suborbital hops.

I settled on a three-kerb capsule for the supply landers.

Considered a cupola for the base, but balked at the weight. 4.5 tons would have required a bigger lifter, made things unstable, and would have pushed out the top node I'd been using for the probe body, stabilisers, and the RTG.

I'm fairly chuffed with the way the base got down. Had to tweak my landing a bit when I was heading for a crater, but got it down near the edge to give them something to study. Panels, lights, gear, and science kit deployed nicely with the action groups. Slight hairy moment when I hit 'g' instead of 'l' and the entire base was sat on the rover for a few seconds, but it didn't all tip over. Thankfully, I'd left SAS on.