KSP in middle school

[rosenkranz]

I've run into an interesting situation. My 12yr old wants to do his 7th grade science project on aerodynamics and wants to use KSP with FAR to do it.

Typically these projects have the Question, Hypothesis, Experiment and Theory phases. Right now we're in the Question stage.

Originally he wanted to compare the aerodynamics of VTOLs, Helicopters, regular planes and SSTOs. However, he (nor I) am sure how to go about doing that in a meaningful way as it seems like apples and oranges. I've been trying to suggest narrowing the question to "Which type of wing is better suited to spaceplanes" or something of that nature.

Thought I'd try to crowdthink this a bit and what suggestions or advice this great community might have for him.

[Tank Buddy]

I believe that KSP's model of aerodynamics is not quite accurate, as parts only have a numerical value for how much drag they create. I really like the idea of using KSP for a science project, but I don't know about the feasibility of it. I feel the same way as you, I don't know how you could turn that into a good science project. I am familiar with these science projects, and I would recommend creating a hypothesis, formatting a question around it, then testing that hypothesis.

[Tank Buddy]

Never mind, I didn't realize what FAR was, but in that case I would just find a hypothesis that you could test and go from there.

[Runboy]

Tank Buddy,read again.The FAR mod will be used as well,and that will realistic-ize aerodynamics a good deal.

[roosterr]

Question: What is the optimal thrust to weight ratio for obtaining a 100k orbit?

As we all know, with not enough fuel you cannot achieve orbit, BUT, with too much fuel, you cannot achieve orbit. It would be nice to know what is the most efficient TWR to get into LKO. I think the "efficiency" could be judged by how long it takes to get into orbit. I know from experience as long as at every stage separation your speed accelerates, things are optimal. OR Maybe SSTO might simplify the experiment. You could use Engineer or Mech Jeb to collect the TWR numbers.

Its about all I could come up with first thing in the morning, but will give it more thought as my day moves ahead.

PS. I am inspired by your question because I JUST got hired teaching Middle Schooler's Lego Robotics 5 days a week. So I need to come up with some engineering idea's myself.

[jamieadd]

what about what shape of wing is most efficient when travailing over a distance of 100km at an equal altitude (in game you could use 10k, but in real life it would relate to a different altitude). To do this you would have a plane with say 3 fuel tanks and one engine and just change the wings. each time you could see how much fuel remained when you are 100km away.

[rosenkranz]

All good stuff guys. We have talked about the wing shapes (straight vs swept vs delta) and which is faster or more efficient. Using the fuel (or dV) remaining after a set distance travel is pretty good metric.

Though I guess fuel remaining would be best for jets as neither engineer or MJ can calc the dV for an air breathing engines. However, the only problem with fuel efficiency is that it will depend a lot on the pilots flight skills. Even with the same rig, no two flights will be the same. For level flight for a given distance we might ought to be able to automate it or fly consistantly but getting to orbit might be aiming a bit high.

Edit: Oooooh, bad pun, bad

[-Velocity-]

I don't think that the KSP aerodynamic models, probably even with FAR, are good enough for something somewhat scientifically accurate like what you are suggesting, but I could be wrong.

Maybe something with orbital maneuvers would be better instead? Maybe figuring out optimal orbital transfer maneuvers for various planets, mixing in different gravitational assists? Also, like, how often are the planets properly aligned to do such maneuvers?

Edited September 5, 2013 by |Velocity|

[rosenkranz]

Yeah, I'm hoping Ferram4 sees this can kicks in his 2 cents.

[Holo]

I believe that KSP's model of aerodynamics is not quite accurate, as parts only have a numerical value for how much drag they create. I really like the idea of using KSP for a science project, but I don't know about the feasibility of it. I feel the same way as you, I don't know how you could turn that into a good science project. I am familiar with these science projects, and I would recommend creating a hypothesis, formatting a question around it, then testing that hypothesis.

Use Mechjeb to completely automate the flights, and repeat each flight 3 times to get an average.

[Lazro]

Use Mechjeb or the Romfarer Lazor Mod. Since everything will be the same (no wind, weather, etc) the piloting style would be the same.

[swiftgates24]

While FAR is much better than current aerodynamics, it still isn't perfect.