There must be something unknown in physics that makes consciousness exist

[Cesrate]

Consciousness is completely a different "thing"(or something others). We can explain computer with current knowledge of physics, but if we discovered the complete structure of association cortices can we explain why consciousness exist instead of we are all automatical machine with the current knowledge? - I doubt.

[Brenok]

Are you saying that there's something special that separates us from computers? What exactly?

[Yourself]

Computers only can count to 1, because they only know 2 numbers. 1 and 0, everything else is built out of combinations of those (bytes).

So you can only count to 9 because you only know 10 numbers? And everything else is built out of those?

I assure you that computers can count to more than 1, the fact that the representation is inherently binary doesn't mean there's some limitation there. Perhaps a more interesting thing to note is that every piece of data on your computer is an integer. I've always found that to be more amusing. The development of KSP is simply the search for a specific integer.

[lajoswinkler]

I think it is naive to believe that neurons or even a neuron's axons and dendrites are analogous to bits in a computer. Cells have incredibly complex biology and a lot of processing happens at the sub-cellular level. Even single celled organisms are capable of responding to diverse stimuli in their environments.

Drew Berry did a TED talk a few years ago that gave some insight into the molecular machinery inside every cell. What blew me away was the bit at the end where the chemical signal broadcasting system molecules actually walk along the micro-tubules in the cell's nucleus... How do they know where they are going?

You're correct about the simplified analogy. It's false. Brains do not use bits and they are not digital. They work on a much more sophisticated level of analogue computing.

However I must say I find peculiar how humans tend to mistify things they don't understand. Please, don't think this is an insult. It's just an observation.

How do these guys know where to go? They don't. Everything in our body, every single thing is a chemical reaction driven by the increase of total entrophy and decrease of energy. The reason we're so ordered is because we create a huge disorder.

You might think there's something weird and unnatural about these molecules walking, but that's because you're using a simplified CGI model as basis for your observations. Their "legs" and "bodies" are complex protein molecules that change their conformation when supplied with energy (ATP). They have catalytic properties for ATP decomposition. Each chemical bond breakage causes motion. See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLxlBB9ZBj4

Even that is a very simple model. In real life, those molecules are subjected to a huge disturbance at 37°C so one single "step" looks like this:

Personally, I think this is terrifying. To think that such random, yet complicated units result in cellular life, and then multicellular life that can think... that blows my mind.

[PakledHostage]

To be clear, I am not invoking anything metaphysical in how the messenger molecules work. What I am expressing amazement at (and in turn pointing out) is that there are incredibly complex processes that occur at the sub cellular level. Those processes certainly do adhere to known physical laws, but their existence implies that modelling human consciousness probably runs deeper than just modeling networks of synapses as on-off switches.

Edited September 9, 2013 by PakledHostage

[dharak1]

So you can only count to 9 because you only know 10 numbers? And everything else is built out of those?

Every other number we make IS those 99 is nine nine and 1538 is 1 5 3 8 some people have recognized 0-99 as numbers (wrong but still functional) that's why you hear five eight seven sometimes and you hear five eighty-seven others. you read it number by number. you never say five-hundred-eighty-seven that's too big and awkward to say. You never hear five hundred thousand eight hundred ninety eight. Binary is the same but with 2 numbers to make hundreds.

[lajoswinkler]

Every other number we make IS those 99 is nine nine and 1538 is 1 5 3 8 some people have recognized 0-99 as numbers (wrong but still functional) that's why you hear five eight seven sometimes and you hear five eighty-seven others. you read it number by number. you never say five-hundred-eighty-seven that's too big and awkward to say. You never hear five hundred thousand eight hundred ninety eight. Binary is the same but with 2 numbers to make hundreds.

You've just lumped together several concepts into an false mix.

1538 is not 1-5-3-8 because 5 is at different position than 8. It uses a positional notation.

And yes, in some languages you actually say "one thousand five hundred thirty eight" and not fifteen hundred eighty seven. Actually most of the world uses full version.

[m1xte]

I think it is naive to believe that neurons or even a neuron's axons and dendrites are analogous to bits in a computer. Cells have incredibly complex biology and a lot of processing happens at the sub-cellular level. Even single celled organisms are capable of responding to diverse stimuli in their environments.

Drew Berry did a TED talk a few years ago that gave some insight into the molecular machinery inside every cell. What blew me away was the bit at the end where the chemical signal broadcasting system molecules actually walk along the micro-tubules in the cell's nucleus... How do they know where they are going?

After molecular level comes quantum level and then comes ...

But hey we know it don't we.