New technologies you think should be added to the game

[RAJ JAR]

Hi all I am new here,

I was curious to know will there be any other types of electric propulsion besides the xenon ion engine? I was thinking maybe they should introduce the VASIMR (Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket), the plasma electric propulsion which, from what I have been reading and watching on youtube has a lot of promise, will be soon tested on the ISS. Also what about solar sail and electric sail which is currently being test. I think there should be more advanced propulsions which are being researched on added to the game. As well as nuclear reactors and newer solar panel technology.

Please leave you thoughts and ideas, Thanks.

Edited October 9, 2013 by RAJ JAR

[Thiel]

Stuff like solar sails would be impractical in KSP since they take absolutely forever to get anywhere with them.

[boomerdog2000]

Agreed. I believe solar sails would be used more for station keeping, which is impractical in KSP since we have no orbital decay past the upper limits of the defined atmosphere.

[TwoHedWlf]

Stuff like solar sails would be impractical in KSP since they take absolutely forever to get anywhere with them.

I disagree if they're implemented like the ion drive. Basically with a huge increase in thrust but still low enough to be generally very slow. Maybe something like a tenth the thrust of an ion drive for a sail about 7 meter diameter.

[RAJ JAR]

Thiel - How would you know if they work or not, they have been tested yes but next year from what I have read apparently NASA is going to launch "SUNJAMMER" a solar sail about the same width as Texas.

Back on topic. What about the other propulsion technologies I have mentioned?

Also what do you think of the Skylon?

Edited September 8, 2013 by Supernovy
Merged Posts

[boomerdog2000]

Doesn't the game have problems dealing with parts that large?

[RAJ JAR]

What about the other propulsions I have mentioned? Also what about having the Skylon in the game?

[Beeman]

It might now, but they'll likely fix those types of issues eventually.

As for the topic at hand, I'd be okay with plasma engines but I don't know about solar sails. I mean, maybe, but they're a bit quirky for a game like KSP. Then again, I don't know much about them and even so, they could make them function however they felt necessary, so long as it added some level of enjoyment to the game. So I guess I"m okay with everything up in this thread, more or less.

[p1t1o]

How about beamed power?

First option is things like engines which use incoming (probably laser) energy to hear propellant - the incoming radiation could be used to generate electricity for an ion engine or similar, or could be used to heat propellant directly - like an NTR but you dont have to carry a 10t nuclear pile around.

Second option is like a "supercharged solar sail" - basically exactly the same, physically, but is propelled by by light pressure from intense laser illumination. You need a lot of raw power from the station but the performance can be orders of magnitude better than a pure solar sail. Disadvantage of this method is that it can only be used to propel your craft *away* from the base station.

These beams would have to come from a suitably large orbital solar station - or in fact they could exist on the surfaces of bodies with no atmosphere. Also you could bring in orbital mirrors?

These are all real concepts but i forget the names of real projects, if I ever knew them.

TL:DR

Base station - beam energy to ship - ??? - profit

**edit**

@RAJ JAR

The B9 aerospace pack has really nice (dual mode and everything) SABRE engines, they are certainly useful.

As for Real-Life Skylon, they've just been given a huge grant and Im super excited to see what they do with it.

Edited September 9, 2013 by p1t1o

[robogungt8]

anyone ever heard of the EmDrive

[AngelLestat]

About the EmDrive seems fraud. This would violate the principle of conservation of momentum.

In the case of Vasimr, looks promising. But its principles and practical studies are a lot less tested than Solar Sails.

Robert Zubrin said that it will not be much better than ION drives, and this take my attention becouse he is a really good scientific.

One way or another, I guess Vasimr and Solar Sails will become in the future of space exploration.

This important step will be made noticeable within 5 to 7 years, which is the time where the new carbon composites derivatives from graphene or CNT will be used more often.

In case of Vasimr will solve a lot of problems about the high temperature needed and improving the magnetic nozzle.

But I guess the best benefic would be seen in Solar Sails, where the themal resistence and low weight are the most important factors.

There are already studies of how to make a sail using CNT, with the instruments imprented in the same sail and one antenna for comunication in the focal point (sails act like parabolic reflector), this will reach aprox 8% of light speed without extenal source, just passing near the sun. And if reach some star, it can brake using the same technique.

And this values can be improve it if they found an easy way to make graphene reflective.

So about the implementation in KSP. I say yes.. And these new technologies would not need any bonus in their thrust.

The same for Ion engines, now Ion engines in KSP has high thrust but low isp than the real live. This is becouse we can not leave the engines on when we use time warp.

But that is the problem, the time warp!

What if we have a different time warp for this kind of technologies? We do not need calculate structure physsics with low thrust.

And in the case of Ion, Vasimr or Solar Sails it will be nice if we can set to keep a prograde value meanwhile is in time warp (or keep an angle to the sun in the solar sail case).

Of course when we pass near to a planet or sun, the time warp will decrease.

But all these technologies in their respective tier, like skylon.

[Tripzter]

Stuff like solar sails would be impractical in KSP since they take absolutely forever to get anywhere with them.

Correct mainly due to the fact that you cannot time warp or leave the space craft unattended (aka go to the space center to do something else) while the space craft is accelerating.

[NoMrBond]

The SABRE engines for the Skylon space plane are already available in the B9 Aerospace pack

[Comrade Jenkens]

I'd love the skylon SABRe engines to be part of the stock game as a higher tier engine. Also Reaction Engines Ltd have thought of a purely atmospheric jet engine version which would allow higher cruising speeds for aircraft.

[RAJ JAR]

What about the electric sails being tested on cube sats?

[RAJ JAR]

What about adding spacecraft which have not been built e.g. the x-33, VentureStar, Jimo spacecraft and so on?

[Rage097]

Thiel - How would you know if they work or not, they have been tested yes but next year from what I have read apparently NASA is going to launch "SUNJAMMER" a solar sail about the same width as Texas.

-posted by RAJ JAR.

As a citizen of Texas, That is not gonna happen. That and the name seems a bit off, doesn't sound like something they'd call a solar sail. Then there's the problem of LAUNCHING it. and to accomplish that will most definitley not happen for quite a few years.

[RAJ JAR]

I have heard a lot of good things about VASIMR and fusion propulsion they should defiantly add those plus a nuclear reactor.

Edited September 9, 2013 by RAJ JAR

[RAJ JAR]

Thiel - How would you know if they work or not, they have been tested yes but next year from what I have read apparently NASA is going to launch "SUNJAMMER" a solar sail about the same width as Texas.

-posted by RAJ JAR.

As a citizen of Texas, That is not gonna happen. That and the name seems a bit off, doesn't sound like something they'd call a solar sail. Then there's the problem of LAUNCHING it. and to accomplish that will most definitley not happen for quite a few years.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/td..._overview.html and http://www.space.com/21556-sunjammer...unch-2014.html

[Rage097]

Uhh...here's what I got from those links.

Page Not Found

The page you requested either doesn't exist anymore, or was moved.

You can try searching for the topic, or follow the links below.

404 Error

The page you're looking for isn't here.

You sure you actually read this and it was reliable? One does not simply launch a Texas-sized object into space with current technology. That and it would cost FAAAAR too much. And where would they store the thing before launch? it becomes more and more unlikly it actually is a legitamte thing the more you think about it.

Edit: Seeing the post right after this one, I'd assume this supposed object is a fraud as well. Unless you can provide actual proof that isn't a 404 error or a "Page missing" link. then I'll reconsider.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Rage097

[p1t1o]

anyone ever heard of the EmDrive

lol, yeah. The guy is basically a fraud, his "device" (its just a box that you are supposed to flood with microwaves) belongs on a shelf next to all the "perpetual motion" machines.

*EDIT*

SUNJAMMER will have an area of approx 1200sq metres. Unless I'm incredibly poorly educated, that is not the size of Texas.

@RAGE097

You seem to think that a texas-sized solar sail would be launched fully deployed? Sunjammer is a real project, and whilst it won't be the size of Texas (lol1) it will be made of an extremely thin (5 microns) and light (~30kg) and will be folded up very tightly into a space about the size of a dishwasher. Oh and its named after an Arthur C Clarke story.

Edited September 9, 2013 by p1t1o

[Rage097]

Ah, thanks for clearing that out. and derp on my part about storage.

1200sq meters makes much more sense as well, thanks.

[AngelLestat]

aww sad... it seems that if your post is larger than 5 lines, nobody read it :S

The SABRE engines for the Skylon space plane are already available in the B9 Aerospace pack

They are?? I just see an engine with a crazy isp and a way to operate that it has nothing to do with the real sabre engine.

If someone add a sabre engine to the game, then at least they need to have into account how you start to harvester oxigen meanwhile you are in atmosphere.

Is like add hot air or helium ballons wihout any similitude or principles that rules the real ones. "Hooligan Labs"

I support the effort to try to incorporate these additions to the game, but do not confuse, there are not in the game yet.

I have heard a lot of good things about VASIMR and fusion propulsion they should defiantly add those plus a nuclear reactor.

Well I guess now you need to hear the bad things.

[p1t1o]

aww sad... it seems that if your post is larger than 5 lines, nobody read it :S

They are?? I just see an engine with a crazy isp and a way to operate that it has nothing to do with the real sabre engine.

If someone add a sabre engine to the game, then at least they need to have into account how you start to harvester oxigen meanwhile you are in atmosphere.

Is like add hot air or helium ballons wihout any similitude or principles that rules the real ones. "Hooligan Labs"

I support the effort to try to incorporate these additions to the game, but do not confuse, there are not in the game yet.

Well I guess now you need to hear the bad things.

I use the B9 SABREs with the modular fuels addon. This way, in air-breathing mode, the engine burns LH2 along with intake air, and on the switch to closed-cycle rocket, it burns LH2 and LO2 with a vacuum Isp of 450 I think. Matches the real thing fairly well, though there is no pre-cooling component (though there is a "pre-cooler" part, it is only structural "filler"), you can assume it there as the air breathing mode works well up to around 25-30km and around 2000m/s, it doesn't require any spamming of intakes (what is with that? If you are going to stack 20 intakes on top of each other, just edit the config to give you a million intake air...may as well just hyperedit your craft into orbit...), although one or two auxilliary intakes will boost your cut-off altitude.

The way I use it, it doesn't feel OP and is pretty satisfying.

Edited September 9, 2013 by p1t1o

[AngelLestat]

Sorry, but nobody was talking about what is OP or not.

The real sabre engine gather oxigen meanwhile is in atmosphere to be used later when they change into rocket mode.

That is the real key of efficiency from sabre engine. It does not need to carry the oxigen for the rocket mode, only H2, and the fact that can use a normal jet engine to reach some altitud and match 5.

About the intakes stack, aerodynamics and meteorology models, the nerva (using oxidizer) and many other things that are not yet completed in KSP. We can said like the same developers say. They are not really in game yet.

And high tier technologies without a career mode, removes all the fun to use them.

I also use the fuel mod, the problem that for nerva engines with static dry mass of tanks, is not accurate.